|
On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust. Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting All terran buffs since release: + Show Spoiler +Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____>
You shouldn't judge patches on previous Terran buffs, If they havent needed buffs they didnt get them i.e GomTvT for a few seasons. I agree they need something late game TvP, but the start of this should be trying to improve, not waiting for the magic buff wand to help you.
|
Lol at all the people thinking bunker not changed is from the actual patch notes. Although blizzard did actually make that joke once as part of their April Fools' Day patch notes. Those were worth a good laugh.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2325614706
|
On May 10 2012 12:21 ig0tfish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust. Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting Zerg and toss buffs= Terran nerfs.
pro Terrans will just learn to adjust again
|
On May 10 2012 12:24 m!st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust. Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting All terran buffs since release: + Show Spoiler +Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____> You shouldn't judge patches on previous Terran buffs, If they havent needed buffs they didnt get them i.e GomTvT for a few seasons. I agree they need something late game TvP, but the start of this should be trying to improve, not waiting for the magic buff wand to help you.
Oh yea I agree, I'm just saying that Terran has never gotten a buff while your comment hinted at Terran has had quite a few already. 
EDIT: For the record I don't play T, I just love the Tank icon >_>
|
On May 10 2012 12:23 Zheryn wrote:
It's funny how all these terrans say "no need to make roaches or spines anymore". Queens are still going to kill hellions EXTREMELY slow, so if you don't have roaches or spines the terran will still put their hellions in the mineral line and kill all drones even if the zerg is attacking with queens.
You wall with Evos and put 5 range Queens to block in between . Why exactly would you need Roaches or Spines ?
|
haha bunker not changed. they'll sneak one in yet.
|
On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust. Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting All terran buffs since release: Show nested quote +Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. This is ignoring the back and forth with the bunker. The Thor changes makes them unusable besides funky lategame TvZ. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____>
Ghost
Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
thats a buff. less gas.
|
"We feel like terran's weakness in the late game is compensated by their strength in the early/mid game".
Guess we better nerf the early/mid game too.
|
queen buff is going to be strong, but if it's too strong they'll just scale it back to 4 range. blizzard's said numerous times that they sometimes overbuff to get a feel for the change, and then make changes if necessary. it's actually not ground breaking.
don't get the observer buff though. doesn't chronoboost already get observers out in no time? looking forward to hear the situation report.
|
I'm gonna mass queen every zvz
|
On May 10 2012 12:21 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:07 Qaatar wrote:On May 10 2012 12:04 TheAngelofDeath wrote:On May 10 2012 12:03 -Exalt- wrote:
you mean those flying scouts, err overlords, that you make anyway for supply, are getting a movement speed boost? so now you can't hide ANYTHING early game vs zerg now? sweet.. Yes because hiding tech and making the zerg have to flip a coin is obviously how the game should be played! It's worked that way for years in BW, and it's been fine. Hell, P's often hide their tech against T in BW to punish greed. If we take Blizzard's own words in consideration, they essentially envisioned this game for Terran to be slightly stronger in the early to mid-game in order to make up for its late game deficiencies (paraphrased roughly). In other words, Terran has to do damage in the early game and mid-game. It's that asymmetrical balance that Blizz seems so intent on working towards. Thus, early game cheese is pretty much designed to work within the framework of Terran in SC2. Not to mention, cheese is an essential part of long series in tournaments to keep one's opponents honest. There is a lot of overreaction in this thread though. I don't think this will really affect the top pro T's with good micro, timings, and map awareness. Yeah because in BW you can actually respond to hidden tech with micro and better decision making. In SC2, if your opponent catches you off guard with tech, you just die because there's sooo much damage in SC2 done so quickly.
Then nerf the damage. I would argue that it's also much easier to balance and makes for more exciting games if we nerf the damage of all units in this game -- micro would play a much larger part in the game, for one. On the other hand, trying to pinpoint the exact amount of asymmetrical balance that's needed and trying to stifle variance in builds will be much harder and will suck for viewers.
|
On May 10 2012 12:21 VincendioS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:18 Flonomenalz wrote:
...
Hellions can still snipe tumors pretty easily. Weird how Terrans are complaining when most of them just park their hellions right outside the creep or patrol them, and that completely denies all creep spread. Then you can freely 3 CC behind that and Zerg would either have to get the luckiest OL scout ever or blindly all in. Now OLs can get that scout a bit easier, and Zerg can chase the hellions away a bit better.
I feel like Terrans are just raging because there's still no change to TvP late game, which I agree is a massive problem, but Zergs have been needing this changes for over a year. 1) queen attack hellions which are off creep 2) it makes them fall back 3) Then make creep tumor 4) repeat step 1 to 3
So the presence of hellions is forcing extra queens, queen micro vs hellions/creep planting, delayed creep and still the possibility of killing tumors/drone if the zerg messes up, while also denying a third base.
As opposed to forcing extra queens, queen micro, COMPLETELY denying creep spread unless roaches are used, and denying a third base.
And this is a problem?
|
lol... nice terran change
|
On May 10 2012 12:27 synapse wrote:
I'm gonna mass queen every zvz
can you kite slow roach on creep with the new queen range?
nope. but that would have been funny to watch. lol
queen - 2.667
roach (slow) - 2.92
|
I want to see the reasons why the observer and queen changes were needed.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On May 10 2012 11:30 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 11:29 S_SienZ wrote:On May 10 2012 11:27 pPingu wrote:* Queen anti-ground weapon attack range increased from 3 to 5 ... This is such a big nerf to reapers, helions and bunker rushes Did they provide any reason behind those choices? They let us choose between super imba 50 energy and this. This had less harsh feedback. Kinda like telling hostages you're gonna kill them and saying you're just gonna starve them instead. I think you're taking things just a LITTLE out of proportion here. It's not like queens are suddenly outranging hellions or bunkers or reaper bunkers or something. Yes, it's a buff, but it's milder than the energy buff.
Uh... actually yes, they are outranging reaper bunkers lol
And they equal hellions so....
|
On May 10 2012 12:26 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:20 tnud wrote:On May 10 2012 12:16 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 12:14 Corrosive wrote:
Still don't understand how this changes hellion openings. Hellions are faster and usually they have to run by queens to kill drones anyway, right? It's not like the queen is going to come into range of the hellion and every hellion on the map will spontaneously combust. Terrans just complaining about no buffs, overreacting All terran buffs since release: Patch 1.1.2:
- Supply Depot health increased from 350 to 400
Patch 1.3.0:
Battlecruiser:
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Patch 1.4.0:
Raven:
-Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. This is ignoring the back and forth with the bunker. The Thor changes makes them unusable besides funky lategame TvZ. Yep.. terran getting all the buffs before... >____> Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. thats a buff. less gas.
Don't think this counts as a buff considering it only made Terran unable to spend all their gas in TvP .
|
* Observer build time decreased from 40 to 30 seconds
Totally unnecessary. No point.
Overlord movement speed increased from 0.4687 to 0.586, that is 25% faster
Queen anti-ground weapon attack range increased from 3 to 5
Both great changes for zergs in ZvT (a little bit in ZvP with overlord change and the ability of queens to catch probes / kill partially walled cannons)
Bunker is not changed
As much as I know why this is included, I still laugh at the thought that Blizzard has to explicitly state when a patch doesn't change how the bunker functions!
|
On May 10 2012 12:26 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 12:23 Zheryn wrote:
It's funny how all these terrans say "no need to make roaches or spines anymore". Queens are still going to kill hellions EXTREMELY slow, so if you don't have roaches or spines the terran will still put their hellions in the mineral line and kill all drones even if the zerg is attacking with queens. You wall with Evos and put 5 range Queens to block in between . Why exactly would you need Roaches or Spines ?
And once you see a committed wall like that, you plop down a 3rd CC because the Zerg isn't taking a third base anytime soon due to that much static defense. And then you are ahead economically.
And the problem is....?
|
On May 10 2012 11:53 1Eris1 wrote:
Damnit. I love opening DT in PvP and then transitioning to archon/zealot. This blows.
This was my first thought. AFAIK this is really the only strategy that is affected. I fail to see how this change adds to the game, I only see it taking away. Maybe a slightly blink stalker all in? But this is actually cheesier than the former strategy imo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
