EPTYou and everyone before you who claimed that X action that the community should stop doing to help ESPORTS from growing is and will always be wrong.
[Rant]/[D] Witch Hunting and 'eSports' - Page 3
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
You and everyone before you who claimed that X action that the community should stop doing to help ESPORTS from growing is and will always be wrong. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On May 07 2012 20:49 branflakes14 wrote: Nothing will change because there'll always be a vocal minority that are terrified that you might be offending a person that doesn't exist and are willing to brand you with anything they can to get you to stop. This attitude is concentrated around Starcraft 2 for god knows what reason, and I don't think it's going to go away. This attitude exists all over the real world. Organizations like PETA find any minute detail in a commercial or movie and start protesting. | ||
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Deimos0
Poland277 Posts
This attitude exists all over the real world. Organizations like PETA find any minute detail in a commercial or movie and start protesting. That's why it's players', casters' and streamers' job to act profesionally and avoid anything controversial and if such thing unfortunately happens, just do some PR job and try to calm people down. | ||
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Appendix
Sweden979 Posts
On May 07 2012 20:36 ki11z0ne wrote: This is were the Esport community should be blamed for ever one is trying to find dirt on someone just so they can discredit them and its turning into a joke after what happend to Orb, people went as far as lookin at his past games to see if you dropped any slanderous words, just boggles my mind sometime ^_^ Couldn´t it have been someone getting offended the first time but didn´t start any topics about it but when the later situation surfaced they remembered and looked it up? Anyway, I would say these witch hunts are a symptom of the extremely rapid growth of the business. Streaming, casting and other related shows are all very new phenomena to reach such a broad audience and therefore what form and shape they are to take has not been widely defined. There are no precedences, so these strong reactions are what set the rules or standards for the future of this business. Once the standards have been set, it should become easier for both sides, knowing what to expect and not from certain behaviour. It has nothing to do with people being dicks on the internet. The witch hunts will stop once the business has matured. | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On May 07 2012 20:55 Deimos0 wrote: That's why it's players', casters' and streamers' job to act profesionally and avoid anything controversial and if such thing unfortunately happens, just do some PR job and try to calm people down. The problem is the random nobodies going out of their way to find dirt on community figures (a la Orb) just to get them fired. | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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SamsLiST
Germany184 Posts
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Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
On May 07 2012 20:58 Jojo131 wrote: The problem is the random nobodies going out of their way to find dirt on community figures (a la Orb) just to get them fired. AND they're being taken seriously while, let's be honest, no one on earth takes PETA seriously. Isn't that strange? The way heads role in esports is stunning too - racial slurs of any kind take place daily in every single sport the world has to offer, but rarely ever lead to someone being fired. A ban of a couple of matches and a fine and they're good. | ||
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xxgeffxx
United States119 Posts
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xxgeffxx
United States119 Posts
The way heads role in esports is stunning too - racial slurs of any kind take place daily in every single sport the world has to offer, but rarely ever lead to someone being fired. A ban of a couple of matches and a fine and they're good. Actually it does cost them, as the sponser will not choose to be associated with said person anymore such as when stephanie rice tweeted faggot and then publicly apologized for it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/swimming/7987049/Stephanie-Rice-faggot-jibe-costs-Australian-swimmer-Jaguar-contract.html But there's a difference between here and now: her sponsers themselves chose to pull away; it was not some mob's decision as to the fate of her punishment | ||
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TrippSC2
United States209 Posts
In professional sports, when a player commits an on-the-field (illegal hits in football) or off-the-field action (arrests), the league office or teams will hand down a fine or otherwise penalize the player through suspensions. In e-sports, there isn't the same measure of accountability. There is no central governing body to handle uniform punishment, so the team's responsibility to handle player conduct is even greater. In general, no matter how hard the community outcry, unless sponsors are involved, teams won't do anything to their players. There aren't any examples that I can think of where a team took action against a player for conduct WITHOUT sponsors being contacted. A good example of this is that Alex Garfield of EG put out a long blog post about how horrible Naniwa quitting on a meaningless game was, because it robbed the fans of opportunity to see a real match. This is a stance that I agree with. However, when it comes to applying this standard to their player (IdrA) they have failed on two separate occasions (vs. HuK yesterday and vs. aLive). No sponsors contacted, therefore no accountability. TL;DR: It is up to the teams to establish what is acceptable and what is not for their players. So long as those standards are lax or non-existent, you will have community members contacting sponsors about misconduct. | ||
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halfies
United Kingdom327 Posts
it all very well to say that we shouldn't email sponsors, but if were going to stop doing that, then there needs to be a viable alternative for complaining. which means either an esports governing body, which doesn't seem close to appearing, at least for sc2, or much better moderation by sponsors and teams, which currently only exisits in some cases, such as the much more PG approach that i have come to associate with american tournaments, although this might just be a misconception. and by more PG, i mean the casters are much less likely to tell drunken stories etc. and the other thing that needs to happen is that people need to recognize that if your being sponsored by a company in any form, your representing them, and that company has every right to moderate your streams or withdraw its sponsorship. its also completely appropriate to complain about behaviour on stream, in the same way that you can complain about the content broadcasted on your TV. i dont know about other countries, but in the UK there is a TV watchdog that you can complain to if you feel something was inappropriate, and even with that in place, its considered completely acceptable to email the company aswell. | ||
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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
On May 07 2012 20:16 nRoot wrote: The easiest way to end the "witch-hunting" would be to simply stop all this raging/offending others ingame. If you are frustrated, get a punching ball, scream in your room or find something that doesn't involve badmouthing someone else. If you are a professional athlete in any sport, chances are you might be angry during an interview but you would never say something to offend others (although you might think about it in your head). Now if you play some meaningless SC2 ladder game it's even easier, you can talk all the shit you want, just don't write it out in the chat... As for your analogies to other sports, they are really bad tbh. If you want to compare SC2 to sports please pick a sport that is played 1v1 too. The CocaCola analogy doesn't really make sense to me honestly. Now regarding what happend to Destiny, Quantic simply should have seen it coming and talk to him way, way before any kind of shitstorm could start. Everyone knew what was going on during his stream hours, the chance to do the "punishment" inside Quantic was there, they missed it. I also would like to second a "zero-tolerance" policy regarding racism. That is like saying the most simple solution to prostitution is "men should just be less horny". It is against reality and human nature. It doesn't work that way, it honestly doesn't. People will rage after losing a game, and some people will express it with words--i don't, but that doesnt mean everybody can act the same. Even if they don't rage about the game, their opponent can say stuff that make them rage, the Internet is full of scumbags, and not everyone can just take it and act nice. With the recent trend, all it takes is some troll to bait out some insults from a pro before the self righteous esport experts to start another witch hunt. And no, your point about sports figure who dont let out their frustration in interviews is not valid. No Starcraft pro BMs at a LAN either, but ladder is considered private, even if they dont stream it, their opponent can just take a screen shot and post it while not mentioning how he sniped and insulted the pro 5 games in a row. People are right, this is the Internet, and people can do what they pleases. What goes beyond me is how many people actually support the witch hunts, support the mob mentality. Before supporting it just because the mob method worked in favor of your opinion this time, think about how it can work against your opinion. After all, if history taught us anything, it is the fact that mobs can easily be incited given enough misinformation. Writing to sponsors is not hard, write ten different letters is not hard either. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On May 07 2012 21:30 Mioraka wrote: What goes beyond me is how many people actually support the witch hunts, support the mob mentality. What goes beyond me is how people can think that what Destiny said on stream was okay, and then given the chance to apologize, chose not to do so. You're right, people do have fits of rage once in awhile, but Destiny's seeming endorsement of his language subsequent to the thread being posted really pushed some people over. If he had said something like "Sorry, I was raging from a cheesy loss, won't do it again", he wouldn't have had anywhere close to the amount of backlash he received. Instead, posting a meme about not giving a f***, he really dug his own grave. | ||
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Figgy
Canada1788 Posts
There is a reason people don't go after Idra. While his attitude might also not be in the right place and he suffers from rage sometimes, he isn't a bigot asshole. We shouldn't accept or support any form of racism it simply isn't acceptable in society especially to random people who you've never met before because you lost in a game to them. People who represent us as a whole need to have a certain sense of social responsibility. I will never support people like #2 and 3 in your listed "witchhunts". | ||
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GoSuChicken
Germany1726 Posts
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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Bart
494 Posts
Same goes for Naniwa. If Naniwa issue was not met with public outcry he would not have realised that what he did was wrong. Other foreigners would not have known not to be disrespectful to the game. Thus I disagree with the OP's opinion that we are hurting Esports by trying to make it a more friendly and nicer sport and in the long run will attract more sponsors because we are not plagued by bad apples | ||
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Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
On May 07 2012 19:56 CluEleSs_UK wrote: It's just so fucking sad that people are still jumping on this bandwagon. People need to go and take a long, hard look in the mirror. When I was a child, this was what we (and most likely your parents too) called "telling tales". Regardless of whether another child misbehaved, it was considered bad manners to go whining to an adult. The difference here is, these "tales" are ruining somebody's life. Look at Orb again; this guy was having the best time of his life. A comfortable job, plenty of fun and likely a good wage. He was happy. He wasn't hurting anybody (despite how fucking butthurt you want to act). You fucked it up for him. If you were posting in those threads complaining, if you were emailing the sponsors, YOU fucked it up for him. Think back to the last time you made a mistake (because, believe it or not, nobody's perfect). Could you have lost your job because of things you said about colleagues? Have you ever been on youtube in company hours? Broken the speed limit without getting caught? Made a joke at somebody's expense? used a term like "faggot" or "retard"? Of course you have. How would you fucking like it if somebody reported all these minor issues of yours? You'd feel disgusted. With more and more of these dramas cropping up, we're getting to the stage that nobody in the community is safe. Nobody can afford to be themselves. The community will become false, and your little fucking dreams of "making eSports real by removing all these bad things" will become "making eSports a farce where everybody acts like a plastic doll". You, sir, put my general thoughts eloquently down on paper. Thank you. | ||
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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
On May 07 2012 21:33 FairForever wrote: What goes beyond me is how people can think that what Destiny said on stream was okay, and then given the chance to apologize, chose not to do so. You're right, people do have fits of rage once in awhile, but Destiny's seeming endorsement of his language subsequent to the thread being posted really pushed some people over. If he had said something like "Sorry, I was raging from a cheesy loss, won't do it again", he wouldn't have had anywhere close to the amount of backlash he received. Instead, posting a meme about not giving a f***, he really dug his own grave. I thought this is not a destiny thread? Which part did I mention racism is right? People like you need to stop making this an "esport supporter vs destiny fan boys" debate. It doesn't help the discussion at all, especially you start associating one opinion with another straw man. This is exactly how Glen Beck links Medicare to socialism to Stalin to mass murder. It's not logical, and it doesn't help your argument at all. My entire post is about the method of enforcing acceptable values. In a more extreme metaphor, just because stealing is wrong doesn't mean you can get twenty guys to break into the thief's house and gang rape his wife. You say that's absurd, but that's exactly how mobs work. They get information, they exaggerate the information, and they go to extremes under the cover of group decision. Mob justice will backfire no matter the motives, especially with public support, read up on Culture Revolution. | ||
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