EPTSc2gear plugin is public
How to calculate your MMR from results of 1 match - Page 9
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
Sc2gear plugin is public | ||
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UmbraaeternuS
Chile476 Posts
What an extraordinary post! That is one of the most hardcore theorycrafting I've seen around here, besides the SQ post. Very well done, sir. | ||
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Unkown User Request
United States26 Posts
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Damnight
Germany222 Posts
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BleaK_
Norway593 Posts
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CNSnow
Greece67 Posts
I have a question though cause I am in high diamond and I played with a master guy. His points was 245 and he had bonus pool 1. At that time bonus pool was 327. My opponend gained 11 points (but I lost 12). But from what I see 245 - 327 = -82. Is that normal? Can MMR take negative numbers, or I am missing something here? | ||
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
On May 07 2012 00:00 CNSnow wrote: Very nice work! It must have taken you much time but it worths it all! I have a question though cause I am in high diamond and I played with a master guy. His points was 245 and he had bonus pool 1. At that time bonus pool was 327. My opponend gained 11 points (but I lost 12). But from what I see 245 - 327 = -82. Is that normal? Can MMR take negative numbers, or I am missing something here? Adjusted points can go negative, yes. That means he has at the diamond mmr range and will be demoted soon, but that is a cool opportunity for you to understand where is your MMR at  | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On May 07 2012 00:00 CNSnow wrote: Very nice work! It must have taken you much time but it worths it all! I have a question though cause I am in high diamond and I played with a master guy. His points was 245 and he had bonus pool 1. At that time bonus pool was 327. My opponend gained 11 points (but I lost 12). But from what I see 245 - 327 = -82. Is that normal? Can MMR take negative numbers, or I am missing something here? Make sure you're taking into account the reduced bonus pool for leagues below Master. If 327 is the Master number (or the number shown on the website), then the Diamond bonus pool would have been around 190. | ||
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Mandalore
Germany50 Posts
Would it be possible to make this work for teams or 2v2 at least (or does it work and i'm just doing something wrong?). Also it would be great if you could add multiple accounts to be "observed". Nice job so far Also great analysis! | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On May 07 2012 06:30 Mandalore wrote: @sc2gears plugin maker Would it be possible to make this work for teams or 2v2 at least (or does it work and i'm just doing something wrong?). Also it would be great if you could add multiple accounts to be "observed". Nice job so far Also great analysis! wrong thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334561 It would be possible. But all the code is focused on 1v1 and at the moment i just dont have the time for that, New version can handle mulit accounts and much more. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
Top of bronze is very very close to the top of silver. Same is true of silver and top of gold. I like how you have managed to infer so much. Very nice use of maths. But before you celebrate having it cracked i think the league overlap needs addressing before you can say you have figured out the actual mmr implementation and not created a model of it. You are close dont get me wrong but it is a simplification of the actual system. Unless league overlap does pop out of your system nicely. Will be really cool when sc2 gears manages to start capping data and you can test it properly though! That is pure awesomeness. This is almost like doing real science;) | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On May 07 2012 18:17 MrTortoise wrote: how does this tool cope with league overlaps? Top of bronze is very very close to the top of silver. Same is true of silver and top of gold. I like how you have managed to infer so much. Very nice use of maths. But before you celebrate having it cracked i think the league overlap needs addressing before you can say you have figured out the actual mmr implementation and not created a model of it. You are close dont get me wrong but it is a simplification of the actual system. Unless league overlap does pop out of your system nicely. Will be really cool when sc2 gears manages to start capping data and you can test it properly though! That is pure awesomeness. This is almost like doing real science;) Overlaps? I'm not sure I follow. The actual league boundaries don't overlap at all. However, you don't automatically get promoted once you cross a boundary, either. Because leagues are subdivided into division tiers, the system requires confidence of which tier bests suits you in your new league. This combined with the moving average prerequisite means promotions can sometimes be delayed for a significant number of games. In terms of skill gap, it's true that the top of Bronze is relatively close to the top of Silver which is relatively close to the top of Gold which is relatively close to the top of Platinum, because Bronze itself covers such a wide range of skill. There's no actual overlap there, though. | ||
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CNSnow
Greece67 Posts
On May 07 2012 02:55 Excalibur_Z wrote: Make sure you're taking into account the reduced bonus pool for leagues below Master. If 327 is the Master number (or the number shown on the website), then the Diamond bonus pool would have been around 190. But I played with Master. Why should I take into account the reduced bonus pool? And can I compare my MMR with someone in Masters (whith watching the result from one of his games). I want to see how close or far to masters I am. Also, while I am in high diamond, how offset works? Should I add 190 to the final result after "points - bonus pool"? I think it will be helpfull to add an example of a Diamond vs a Master to explain how does this work with results from different leagues and how the "Tier" part works. I know that I can use the plug in you made but I want to learn how it works. Thank you in advance. | ||
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Not_That
287 Posts
To calculate the MMR of Diamond from a match against Master: - Find Master adjusted points before the match. - Find Master adjusted points change from game. Insert the two into F function and get MMR value +- 16. Example from my last game against Diamond: My adjusted points before the match: 205 My adjusted points change for the match: 4 His MMR = F(205, 4) = 205 + (-256) +-16 = -51 +-16, so about -51. In the 43 matches I kept tracked of, I played 5 Diamond players with MMRs of -33, 37, 85, 38, -51. Personally I believe the line between Master and Diamond to lie somewhere around 0 MMR, but for the moment that's just an estimate. Here's my graph for last 43 matches. 5 of the missing bars are Diamond opponents, and the other 2 are matches where the opponent won and didn't tell me his adjusted points change and I was unable to determine it. ![[image loading]](http://s7.postimage.org/hfm9llplz/nt_games.jpg) | ||
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Vladix
Netherlands227 Posts
He has 379 points after the game He won 11 games How do i get my MMR from that ? | ||
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Not_That
287 Posts
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Vladix
Netherlands227 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:37 Not_That wrote: You need to know his adjusted points change, and his adjusted points. Adjusted points = ladder points + unspent bonus pool - total server bonus pool. For his adjusted points change, you can either ask him, or use this sc2gears plugin which does everything for you automatically. I know but it shows my mmr from 698 to -2 >< Shows my master opponents between 200 - 300, anything i can learn from that ? | ||
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Not_That
287 Posts
Before you can know the MMR of your opponents, you'll have to figure out your division tier. For example if your division tier is 300 points below Master league, you'll have to subtract 300 from the reported MMR of your opponents to know their MMR compared to Master offset MMR. Since you're playing Master opponents with MMR in the area of 200-300, your offset is likely close to that number taking into account that you probably meet opponents from the lower area of Master. How can you know your division tier offset is the million dollar question. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On May 08 2012 01:06 CNSnow wrote: But I played with Master. Why should I take into account the reduced bonus pool? And can I compare my MMR with someone in Masters (whith watching the result from one of his games). I want to see how close or far to masters I am. Also, while I am in high diamond, how offset works? Should I add 190 to the final result after "points - bonus pool"? I think it will be helpfull to add an example of a Diamond vs a Master to explain how does this work with results from different leagues and how the "Tier" part works. I know that I can use the plug in you made but I want to learn how it works. Thank you in advance. Oh yeah, right you are. What SDream said, then. To re-use the numbers that were provided before, 245 - 327 = -82 yes, meaning that Master player's adjusted points at the time of the game were -82. This is usually the case for players facing demotion. The offset from the bottom of Master to the top tier of Diamond is -150. Therefore, if you're in a top-tier Diamond division and played a +12/-12 point game with a -82-point Master opponent, you can expect your adjusted points (that is, your points - the current max Diamond bonus pool of the time, 190, + any remaining bonus pool you have) to be around -82 + 150 = 68. If you're in the second tier, you would expect your adjusted points to be around -82 + 150 + 63 = 131. Third tier, -82 + 150 + 63 + 63 = 194, and so on. | ||
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celeryman
United States54 Posts
Of course the "if your games are randomly sampled" is a big if. And it doesn't help you figure out which one you're in, but varying offsets will average out to some degree even in practice. | ||
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