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On April 23 2012 19:50 Adonminus wrote:
Never say PvP is crap in sc2. It's the best mirror in sc2 imo, unlike the other mirrors, you can actually open with 5 different strategies and much more different variations of it. You see stargate, council and robo tech, and almost every unit is used in this mirror. Actually the danger of the all in in the early game, makes this pvp even more interesting as you don't simply sit on 2 bases and turtle like protoss does in many other match ups.
TvT is far and away the best mirror in sc2. PvP is two blindfolded guys flipping coins that ends in either an all-in or collossus wars. Having to PvP 1/3 of your ladder games is literally the worst thing about picking toss.
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PvP was the reason i changed race to Terran in BW, i utterly hate it, its even worse in sc2 tbh
TvT is the best mirror in both games
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TvT is best in SC2(though it sucks playing it) and from limited viewing in BW, it seems the best too.
For SC2, ZvZ is just either to slow or fast paced. When the game is slow paced and is all about them fungals, it's just plain boring. When it's fast paced, it can be hard for people(and esp. non-zergs obv) to understand the strategy behind the players actions. Infact I feel it's kind of rare that a commentator truly understands what's planned, atleast a shitton of ZvZ's tend to be cast as a straight up play-by-play
PvP has evolved a lot. I still feel it's a bit to unforgiving and lategame is normally pretty dull. In midgame though, it can be quite brilliant.
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Well, since TvT is the only one that lasts for more than 10 minutes i like that one the most, and who does not like sky terran vs sky terran?
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On April 23 2012 21:23 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 19:50 Adonminus wrote:
Never say PvP is crap in sc2. It's the best mirror in sc2 imo, unlike the other mirrors, you can actually open with 5 different strategies and much more different variations of it. You see stargate, council and robo tech, and almost every unit is used in this mirror. Actually the danger of the all in in the early game, makes this pvp even more interesting as you don't simply sit on 2 bases and turtle like protoss does in many other match ups. TvT is far and away the best mirror in sc2. PvP is two blindfolded guys flipping coins that ends in either an all-in or collossus wars. Having to PvP 1/3 of your ladder games is literally the worst thing about picking toss.
I think you are doing it wrong... there is really no resson to feel blind in PvP. ANd if you aren't blind you won't be fliping coins either.
TDLR: Scout more and better.
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I think it's quite close overall.
BW ZvZ i dislike most, too aggressive and narrow. SC2 ZvZ is close though and together they are the worst matchups in both games imo.
PvP is better in BW, in sc2 it's fine now except the endgame colossi wars are boring and too coinflippy (randomly have a bad formation on your colossi and you've lost..)
TvT i like slightly more in sc2, it's a bit too slow in BW for my liking but it's really close and i can understand many prefer the BW variant.
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I like to watch TvT the most and I don't like watching PvP.
I enjoy playing PvP more than TvT though, ZvZ is too unstable for me to enjoy watching or playing
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Hmm, my response is the complete opposite of the poll results.
Why all the love for TvT? I hate that matchup, it's just tanks and vikings.
And why all the hate for ZvZ? This is by far the best mirror. It's super intense, especially at the start with banelings.
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On April 23 2012 16:15 Terranist wrote:
anything was better than bw zvz.
WOW, I absolutely disagree, it has proven to be pretty darn exciting what with the recent KT zerg spree and all. BW TvT is just extremely boring because it's just so slow and difficult to gain a decisive advantage, the only matchup where I prefer SC2's mirror.
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TvT in BW at least for me is way boring. And i love it in SC2.
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On April 23 2012 17:09 Censured wrote:
Most disliked mirror: BW ZvZ
Most liked mirror: SC2 ZvZ
... is it only me?
I love SC2 ZvZ, but only Ling Bling Wars. I hate the new turtle to 200 roach Infestor.
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TvT in broodwar takes some serious skill to play it out well in to the late game . I used to hate it but after playing and understand what's my strength and weakness . It has become one of my favourite match up playing as a terran . Also I don't know what's the hate for ZvZ . The match is so intense with players battling out with early zerglings and muta how could people hate it .
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On April 23 2012 22:53 Trevoc wrote:
I enjoy ZvZ SC2...
I am curious in sc2 ZvZ do you guys use muta to out micro your opponents and gain advantage ?
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On April 23 2012 22:59 Sawamura wrote:I am curious in sc2 ZvZ do you guys use muta to out micro your opponents and gain advantage ?
Its mostly infestor roach/hydra roach, some players like to go muta but its the minority. Also ppl tend to go muta often if ling bling takes very long or they are behind.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50242 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:59 Sawamura wrote:I am curious in sc2 ZvZ do you guys use muta to out micro your opponents and gain advantage ?
you should go watch a vod from recent times man, its different.
I haven't seen a lot of ZvZ in sc2 but its usually ground based, some players do go mutas but not always.
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ZvZ is like the best thing about SC2 in comparison to BW. I hate BW ZvZ so much. All the other mirrors in both games are completely fine for me.
I like ZvZ in SC2 as well as PvP. Both are really interesting, where ZvZ has potentially a lot of micro early on and then has a lot of things that can happen throughout the later stages, and PvP is a lot about build selection and reaction to the opponent, and micro as well, in the early game. Later PvP isn't very figured out so I'm always excited to watch it and see what new stuff comes up if it's a longer game.
I think also watching SotG there has been a ton of discussion of PvP and the different builds and how they work with each other, since they always have so many tosses on the show, so I've always known a lot about PvP early game and my Gateway unit micro has always been pretty good for my level so I've had a lot of success in the matchup as well.
TvT is of course great. There are different unit compositions that are viable on different maps. You can make a lot out of the terrain setup, which is cool, especially as a map maker, and there's a lot of positioning. TvTs that are marine-tank based for both players are probably the most interesting for me, and I hope that remains viable in the future, but generally I like the variety of having bio, marine-tank and mech all as options, and how they all have different levels of muscle and mobility and are all quite positional in different ways.
Generally I love all three mirrors in SC2, they might be my top 3 matchups overall even. I like the simplicity, and something about a mirror really is fun for me.
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I never played BW so I don't know anything regarding their mirror matchups. But I think PvP SC2 is turning into something good atm, don't understand why people aren't thinking the same. Before it was shit yes, but now it's a completely different matchup.
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Honestly, ZvZ isn't too far off from TvT these days imo. The return of Bio made that MU so much less interesting. ZvZ can even be better if both players opt for the ling/bane/muta route. Then the action is just so fast paced and tense. Nerchio vs Monster at Dreamhack yesterday was a good example. MU still lacks some stability though
PvP is still my least favorite to watch.
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I dislike playing ZvZ the most. I dislike watching TvT the most.
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EPT
