On April 10 2012 12:01 KimJongChill wrote:
Is Nestea a fast player? I feel like decision-making/the mental game is an important aspect at the highest levels as well.

He is super fast. Decision making is important, but the foundation is also critical. That is why we see MKP killing people lately. He makes good decisions and then makes them better with micro.

ZenithM

France15952 Posts

April 10 2012 03:25 GMT

#62

On April 10 2012 12:01 KimJongChill wrote:
Is Nestea a fast player? I feel like decision-making/the mental game is an important aspect at the highest levels as well.

He's a fast player like many Korean (very good macro, injects and creep spread and such). However his reflexes are probably a bit slow if it makes any sense. He makes very good decisions on the fly, very quickly, because he's very smart, but you will be able to see him lose track of his mutas and not pull them back in time while they fly over marines. In that sense he's not among the fastest players, as opposed to someone like DRG.

vthree

Hong Kong8039 Posts

April 10 2012 03:25 GMT

#63

Well, considering his crazy macro, Nestea should be quite fast.

Cassel_Castle

United States820 Posts

April 10 2012 03:28 GMT

#64

For me I have different APM depending on races (zerg highest, then terran then protoss) so I don't think comparing APM across players of different races is fair.

A midgame round of production will be something like 16 units for zerg, 10 units for terran, and 8 units for protoss. So it's not that the races require different amounts of skill (you can just hold down a unit hotkey) it's just that each unit built is counted as an action, so different amounts of units built = different APM across similar levels of skill.

Euronyme

Sweden3804 Posts

April 10 2012 03:55 GMT

#65

Isn't EAPM pure bullshit anyway?
IIRC it completely removes tabbing through buildings to see if you can warp in units / build a worker at a certain base or whatever.
That's a major thing EAPM should be sunk into, but afaik it's indistinguishable from spaming control groups with probes and the nexus in the first few minutes.

Kyrillion

Russian Federation748 Posts

April 10 2012 04:30 GMT

#66

Knowing Moon's mastery of English, I'd bet someone just had him believe "Koreans own white dudes" means "Thank you a lot for inviting me here".

Jisall

United States2054 Posts

April 10 2012 04:37 GMT

#67

This topic has been beat worse then a dead horse. Most of these get closed.

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

April 10 2012 04:44 GMT

#68

I hate to tell you but APM =/= Mechanics same as it doesnt equate to skill either.

Pasargadae

Korea (South)173 Posts

April 10 2012 04:48 GMT

#69

You're begging the wrong quest OP.

Arco

United States2090 Posts

April 10 2012 04:56 GMT

#70

Quite possibly the most informative post created on Teamliquid.net SC2 forums.

There are many ways of doing things (mechanics), but the better your mechanics (the more efficient you do things), the better the player you are.

We need a thread dedicated to the most effective way of carrying out each separate mechanic, and the order in which actions should be favored over other actions.

SafeAsCheese

United States4924 Posts

April 10 2012 05:00 GMT

#71

On April 10 2012 11:08 Morfildur wrote:

Show nested quote +

Other example: Goody. Slow but perfect decision making which for a long time allowed him to be on par with a lot of the very fast players (yes, he fell behind now, but he's still good enough to prove a point :p)

Eh.... This is not a whine, but that is strictly only possible with Terran.

namedplayer

844 Posts

April 10 2012 05:06 GMT

#72

Fruitdealer is super slow, yet he was able to win the first GSL.

NeThZOR

South Africa7387 Posts

April 10 2012 05:10 GMT

#73

On April 10 2012 14:06 namedplayer wrote:
Fruitdealer is super slow, yet he was able to win the first GSL.

And now he has phased out of professional StarCraft 2, possibly because he could not keep up with the rest in the "mechanics" side of things. Just pointing that out

scur2d2

Canada104 Posts

April 10 2012 05:20 GMT

#74

You guys are missing the point. You HAVE to be fast in order to even be able to compete. There are people that are faster, but the slowest pro player is still very fast.
Its like in soccer or football, everyone is fast, there are some that are faster and they have an advantage, while other people may have an advantage in other areas, however they are still faster than a regular human being.

lorkac

United States2297 Posts

April 10 2012 05:54 GMT

#75

The better your mechanics, the better your strategy. You can read up strategy, you can't read up mechanics.

Akta

447 Posts

April 10 2012 05:57 GMT

#76

I barely play so I'm pretty bad but like with any game you need to be able to make the game do what you want it to do.

I think all the talk about apm might confuse a lot of people. For example, didn't merz say his apm is crazy high because long time ago he heard spamming super fast with the mouse(or something like that) was great?

I'm pretty old and I don't think people said "apm" and "mechanics" back in AoE etc but good players tried to keep the pace up and practiced useful actions back then like repositioning units, the build hotkeys etc. It was still spamming but people tried to spam all types of actions you actually wanted to be able to do as fast as possible instead of just spamming same 2-5 things.

I like this line from liquipedia on mechanics: "Mechanics is pressing the right buttons exactly when they need to be pressed". Perhaps it would help if people think of apm in a similar 101 way, like "Good APM is executing all game commands quickly".

Personally I'm 100% aware of the fact that I need to somewhat be able to make the game(like all games) do what I want to before there's any point with fancy build orders and stuff. And in a game like sc2 there is no cap where it can't get better.

Josh_rakoons

United Kingdom1158 Posts

April 10 2012 05:57 GMT

#77

I've seen nestea play, he is not that fast, not as fast as say, liquid hero.

dohgg

310 Posts

April 10 2012 06:18 GMT

#78

I totally agree with the OP, tho we musnt forget that APM which is something that ppl underestimate by saying " OH hes just spamming.." is that little thing that keep the player awarness during the game, for example a higher apm player will have a bigger chance at find that DT that coming into your base a mile away, or a higher apm player will be able to rescue his hellion from getting surround by lings while he babysit them every sec while macroing.

Danglars

United States12133 Posts

April 10 2012 08:51 GMT

#79

On April 10 2012 11:47 vorxaw wrote:
Great post. What would be useful now is.... Are there any SPECIFIC drills for practicing mechanics?

Focused Guide to Improving Mechanics

Read it, and you'll see the a behind-the-scenes process (Okay, go through 1-3 first. You want mechanics to have a solid foundation.)
1. Practice with spamming to see if you can top 200 apm constantly
2. Turn the spam APM into eAPM. You banked some "money" and now you "spend it."

To the thread, yeah, Koreans are on average faster. The best players in the world are extremely quick, executing over 400 real actions in real minutes. Over the course of the entire game. Food for thought for progamers that are still 20% behind the top in eAPM and sometimes much more in reg APM.

warcralft

Singapore609 Posts

April 10 2012 09:03 GMT

#80

Keeping up with near perfect macro with 100APM. But i have to say that i could not handle 3 pronged attacks due to my low apm. I think what the foreigner scene really need is extremely high level multi tasking like stephano. Being able to send roaches from 3 angles WHILE keeping up with injects/macroing/expanding and stuff. The top foreigners are there with their macro, what is lacking is their high level multi tasking with mass drops/ unit positioning / engagement. The koreans are at the tip top with their drop control i have to say.