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Dat Korean TvP
EDIT: FUCK YES REAVER
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On April 07 2012 00:49 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 18:03 Amui wrote:On April 06 2012 17:42 WizardofGGG wrote:
oh the sweet rage and hate against terran, im seriously starting to enjoy this.
jokes aside, korean sample is really small, people should start realising this, as the smaller the sample size is the more extreme the outcome will be.
We should expect a Protoss Buff if Protoss keeps losing more, which would be understandable, looking at the international winrates.
Maybe once no Terran in patchnotes lol We should expect a slight early game buff to protoss, and potentially a slight lategame nerf(related to colossus most likely in the form of nerfing upgrade effectiveness somehow, base damage on colossus is fine). From what I've seen of both PvZ and PvT though it'd be really hard to buff PvT early game without breaking 2base allins vs zerg unless it's something really, really subtle. What I mean by subtle is like a 5% decrease on stalker fire animation time(note this is not a dps increase except in exceedingly rare cases) to slightly increase margin for error when kiting marines for example. Very minor things that nudge the balance one way or another in early game without affecting lategame They should just give us our old warp gate research time. It was nerfed specifically for PvP, so that players could do something other than 4 gate. That didn't work, so they came up with the ramp vision fix, which actually did fix PvP. Reverting the warp gate change wouldn't hurt PvP because of how sentries work now in that matchup, but it would drastically improve our early game PvT and PvZ by allowing us to threaten more. One of the biggest issues with PvZ right now, for example, is that you simply can't really threaten zerg much with a one base play. He simply goes up one base over toss, drones up a bunch, and hits his timing right to defend and *Bam* toss loses. Earlier warp gate would make 3 gate sentry expand more viable because the nexus would get down sooner and it would make zerg play a little safer. It'd also allow for early pressure off of FFE to be a little easier which would limit zerg's ability to drone to infinity and beyond. Earlier warp gate in PvT would make holding off really early aggression like 2 rax or early all-ins easier as well, without making Protoss any stronger in the mid game or the late game in that matchup.
Na, plz don't make coinflip... sry warp gate expand viable again... The interaction between 3gate sentry and 2base roach/ling or greedy zerg is completly luckbased.
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Where's that "Where are all the terrans?" thread when it's needed?
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On April 07 2012 01:09 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 00:49 Whitewing wrote:On April 06 2012 18:03 Amui wrote:On April 06 2012 17:42 WizardofGGG wrote:
oh the sweet rage and hate against terran, im seriously starting to enjoy this.
jokes aside, korean sample is really small, people should start realising this, as the smaller the sample size is the more extreme the outcome will be.
We should expect a Protoss Buff if Protoss keeps losing more, which would be understandable, looking at the international winrates.
Maybe once no Terran in patchnotes lol We should expect a slight early game buff to protoss, and potentially a slight lategame nerf(related to colossus most likely in the form of nerfing upgrade effectiveness somehow, base damage on colossus is fine). From what I've seen of both PvZ and PvT though it'd be really hard to buff PvT early game without breaking 2base allins vs zerg unless it's something really, really subtle. What I mean by subtle is like a 5% decrease on stalker fire animation time(note this is not a dps increase except in exceedingly rare cases) to slightly increase margin for error when kiting marines for example. Very minor things that nudge the balance one way or another in early game without affecting lategame They should just give us our old warp gate research time. It was nerfed specifically for PvP, so that players could do something other than 4 gate. That didn't work, so they came up with the ramp vision fix, which actually did fix PvP. Reverting the warp gate change wouldn't hurt PvP because of how sentries work now in that matchup, but it would drastically improve our early game PvT and PvZ by allowing us to threaten more. One of the biggest issues with PvZ right now, for example, is that you simply can't really threaten zerg much with a one base play. He simply goes up one base over toss, drones up a bunch, and hits his timing right to defend and *Bam* toss loses. Earlier warp gate would make 3 gate sentry expand more viable because the nexus would get down sooner and it would make zerg play a little safer. It'd also allow for early pressure off of FFE to be a little easier which would limit zerg's ability to drone to infinity and beyond. Earlier warp gate in PvT would make holding off really early aggression like 2 rax or early all-ins easier as well, without making Protoss any stronger in the mid game or the late game in that matchup. Na, plz don't make coinflip... sry warp gate expand viable again... The interaction between 3gate sentry and 2base roach/ling or greedy zerg is completly luckbased.
Agreed. FFE is totally fine and it way more stable than sentry expand ever was. It allows for more scouting, more information and fewer games that come down to if you happen to scout the roachs crossing the map.
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On April 07 2012 01:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 01:09 Big J wrote:On April 07 2012 00:49 Whitewing wrote:On April 06 2012 18:03 Amui wrote:On April 06 2012 17:42 WizardofGGG wrote:
oh the sweet rage and hate against terran, im seriously starting to enjoy this.
jokes aside, korean sample is really small, people should start realising this, as the smaller the sample size is the more extreme the outcome will be.
We should expect a Protoss Buff if Protoss keeps losing more, which would be understandable, looking at the international winrates.
Maybe once no Terran in patchnotes lol We should expect a slight early game buff to protoss, and potentially a slight lategame nerf(related to colossus most likely in the form of nerfing upgrade effectiveness somehow, base damage on colossus is fine). From what I've seen of both PvZ and PvT though it'd be really hard to buff PvT early game without breaking 2base allins vs zerg unless it's something really, really subtle. What I mean by subtle is like a 5% decrease on stalker fire animation time(note this is not a dps increase except in exceedingly rare cases) to slightly increase margin for error when kiting marines for example. Very minor things that nudge the balance one way or another in early game without affecting lategame They should just give us our old warp gate research time. It was nerfed specifically for PvP, so that players could do something other than 4 gate. That didn't work, so they came up with the ramp vision fix, which actually did fix PvP. Reverting the warp gate change wouldn't hurt PvP because of how sentries work now in that matchup, but it would drastically improve our early game PvT and PvZ by allowing us to threaten more. One of the biggest issues with PvZ right now, for example, is that you simply can't really threaten zerg much with a one base play. He simply goes up one base over toss, drones up a bunch, and hits his timing right to defend and *Bam* toss loses. Earlier warp gate would make 3 gate sentry expand more viable because the nexus would get down sooner and it would make zerg play a little safer. It'd also allow for early pressure off of FFE to be a little easier which would limit zerg's ability to drone to infinity and beyond. Earlier warp gate in PvT would make holding off really early aggression like 2 rax or early all-ins easier as well, without making Protoss any stronger in the mid game or the late game in that matchup. Na, plz don't make coinflip... sry warp gate expand viable again... The interaction between 3gate sentry and 2base roach/ling or greedy zerg is completly luckbased. Agreed. FFE is totally fine and it way more stable than sentry expand ever was. It allows for more scouting, more information and fewer games that come down to if you happen to scout the roachs crossing the map.
I think the key for this MU is, whether or not they can fix roach/hydralisk; right now the intern balance of this composition is just off, meaning that roaches are too costefficient in the midgame, and hydralisks not robust enough for the lategame, which pretty much gives this techpath a weird "just spam roaches and either win or lose"-dynamic out of which you can't transtition, but you simply try to get rid of your range units in the latemidgame and get something completly different as your army backbone. (usually mutas or broodlords)
It would be way cooler, if roaches were weaker on their own (at least offensively), but the more costly (more swarmy) roach/hydra or roach/hydra/infestor combos (+/- corruptor support if needed) were better in the latemid-lategame.
It could create a nice dynamic in which Protoss can take a third easier and zerg does not just lose if he doesn't go air.
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United States7483 Posts
On April 07 2012 02:26 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 01:22 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 01:09 Big J wrote:On April 07 2012 00:49 Whitewing wrote:On April 06 2012 18:03 Amui wrote:On April 06 2012 17:42 WizardofGGG wrote:
oh the sweet rage and hate against terran, im seriously starting to enjoy this.
jokes aside, korean sample is really small, people should start realising this, as the smaller the sample size is the more extreme the outcome will be.
We should expect a Protoss Buff if Protoss keeps losing more, which would be understandable, looking at the international winrates.
Maybe once no Terran in patchnotes lol We should expect a slight early game buff to protoss, and potentially a slight lategame nerf(related to colossus most likely in the form of nerfing upgrade effectiveness somehow, base damage on colossus is fine). From what I've seen of both PvZ and PvT though it'd be really hard to buff PvT early game without breaking 2base allins vs zerg unless it's something really, really subtle. What I mean by subtle is like a 5% decrease on stalker fire animation time(note this is not a dps increase except in exceedingly rare cases) to slightly increase margin for error when kiting marines for example. Very minor things that nudge the balance one way or another in early game without affecting lategame They should just give us our old warp gate research time. It was nerfed specifically for PvP, so that players could do something other than 4 gate. That didn't work, so they came up with the ramp vision fix, which actually did fix PvP. Reverting the warp gate change wouldn't hurt PvP because of how sentries work now in that matchup, but it would drastically improve our early game PvT and PvZ by allowing us to threaten more. One of the biggest issues with PvZ right now, for example, is that you simply can't really threaten zerg much with a one base play. He simply goes up one base over toss, drones up a bunch, and hits his timing right to defend and *Bam* toss loses. Earlier warp gate would make 3 gate sentry expand more viable because the nexus would get down sooner and it would make zerg play a little safer. It'd also allow for early pressure off of FFE to be a little easier which would limit zerg's ability to drone to infinity and beyond. Earlier warp gate in PvT would make holding off really early aggression like 2 rax or early all-ins easier as well, without making Protoss any stronger in the mid game or the late game in that matchup. Na, plz don't make coinflip... sry warp gate expand viable again... The interaction between 3gate sentry and 2base roach/ling or greedy zerg is completly luckbased. Agreed. FFE is totally fine and it way more stable than sentry expand ever was. It allows for more scouting, more information and fewer games that come down to if you happen to scout the roachs crossing the map. I think the key for this MU is, whether or not they can fix roach/hydralisk; right now the intern balance of this composition is just off, meaning that roaches are too costefficient in the midgame, and hydralisks not robust enough for the lategame, which pretty much gives this techpath a weird "just spam roaches and either win or lose"-dynamic out of which you can't transtition, but you simply try to get rid of your range units in the latemidgame and get something completly different as your army backbone. (usually mutas or broodlords) It would be way cooler, if roaches were weaker on their own (at least offensively), but the more costly (more swarmy) roach/hydra or roach/hydra/infestor combos (+/- corruptor support if needed) were better in the latemid-lategame. It could create a nice dynamic in which Protoss can take a third easier and zerg does not just lose if he doesn't go air.
What, knock roaches back down to 3 range rather than 4 but buff the hydralisk?
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On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit.
Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here.
You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement.
No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority.
Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change.
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On April 07 2012 02:30 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 02:26 Big J wrote:On April 07 2012 01:22 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 01:09 Big J wrote:On April 07 2012 00:49 Whitewing wrote:On April 06 2012 18:03 Amui wrote:On April 06 2012 17:42 WizardofGGG wrote:
oh the sweet rage and hate against terran, im seriously starting to enjoy this.
jokes aside, korean sample is really small, people should start realising this, as the smaller the sample size is the more extreme the outcome will be.
We should expect a Protoss Buff if Protoss keeps losing more, which would be understandable, looking at the international winrates.
Maybe once no Terran in patchnotes lol We should expect a slight early game buff to protoss, and potentially a slight lategame nerf(related to colossus most likely in the form of nerfing upgrade effectiveness somehow, base damage on colossus is fine). From what I've seen of both PvZ and PvT though it'd be really hard to buff PvT early game without breaking 2base allins vs zerg unless it's something really, really subtle. What I mean by subtle is like a 5% decrease on stalker fire animation time(note this is not a dps increase except in exceedingly rare cases) to slightly increase margin for error when kiting marines for example. Very minor things that nudge the balance one way or another in early game without affecting lategame They should just give us our old warp gate research time. It was nerfed specifically for PvP, so that players could do something other than 4 gate. That didn't work, so they came up with the ramp vision fix, which actually did fix PvP. Reverting the warp gate change wouldn't hurt PvP because of how sentries work now in that matchup, but it would drastically improve our early game PvT and PvZ by allowing us to threaten more. One of the biggest issues with PvZ right now, for example, is that you simply can't really threaten zerg much with a one base play. He simply goes up one base over toss, drones up a bunch, and hits his timing right to defend and *Bam* toss loses. Earlier warp gate would make 3 gate sentry expand more viable because the nexus would get down sooner and it would make zerg play a little safer. It'd also allow for early pressure off of FFE to be a little easier which would limit zerg's ability to drone to infinity and beyond. Earlier warp gate in PvT would make holding off really early aggression like 2 rax or early all-ins easier as well, without making Protoss any stronger in the mid game or the late game in that matchup. Na, plz don't make coinflip... sry warp gate expand viable again... The interaction between 3gate sentry and 2base roach/ling or greedy zerg is completly luckbased. Agreed. FFE is totally fine and it way more stable than sentry expand ever was. It allows for more scouting, more information and fewer games that come down to if you happen to scout the roachs crossing the map. I think the key for this MU is, whether or not they can fix roach/hydralisk; right now the intern balance of this composition is just off, meaning that roaches are too costefficient in the midgame, and hydralisks not robust enough for the lategame, which pretty much gives this techpath a weird "just spam roaches and either win or lose"-dynamic out of which you can't transtition, but you simply try to get rid of your range units in the latemidgame and get something completly different as your army backbone. (usually mutas or broodlords) It would be way cooler, if roaches were weaker on their own (at least offensively), but the more costly (more swarmy) roach/hydra or roach/hydra/infestor combos (+/- corruptor support if needed) were better in the latemid-lategame. It could create a nice dynamic in which Protoss can take a third easier and zerg does not just lose if he doesn't go air. What, knock roaches back down to 3 range rather than 4 but buff the hydralisk?
Well, there are many ways to do so. Just 3range 2supply roaches suffer too much in the early game imo (hellions, stalkers, reapers, marauders, marines, canons outrange them too much then, to get enough use out of them). What I think would be a good way to go about it would be a costincrease to something like 100/25 and make them a bit better when burrow microed (faster animation, dodge attack, splash reduction when burrowed... something like that). Probably even nerf their attack from 8 to 7.5 or 7dps (for example slower attack) and give them even a little more health (the idea is that they tank damage for the hydras, not that they do most of it on their own).
Hydras: probably also more expensive 125-150/50, but maybe let them go to 7range through the upgrade (and make it 200/200, probably hivetech) with a little more dps and health. (the idea is, that they stand further back and don't get torn apart by 9range storms/colossi in 1-2 volleys)
By buffing their stats but also their costs, the composition becomes weaker early (less costefficient) but stronger late (more supplyefficient).
Also I think the upgrades could/should be turned around: +2 for hydras, +1 for roaches. It doesn't make a lot of sense, that the "glass canon" does not profit from damage upgrades on even upgrades, but the "meat tank" gets better. Also +8,3% per upgrade with a +1 advantage for hydralisks is simply put not much for this kind of unit.
It's just a random idea how the goal (roaches weaker in the midgame on their own, roach/hydra stronger in the high supply) might work out. (probably BLs would need a small nerf for this, to make the high supply army a little weaker)
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On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change.
You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. The same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player.
Except for the Pros, because they play to win.
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On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win.
You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at"
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On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at"
It could be a large number of terrans, or a minority of vocal people on a few forums. There were a large number of protoss getting mauled by zergs a while a back, it happens in SC2. We have seen balance whining before, but never to the point where they called other people less skilled, saying they did not deserve to be in the league they are in or whining because they have to be aggressive. That is just entitlement.
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On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at"
And a very large percentage of those terrans who complain aren't good enough to get their games represented in these graphs.
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On April 07 2012 03:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at" It could be a large number of terrans, or a minority of vocal people on a few forums. There were a large number of protoss getting mauled by zergs a while a back, it happens in SC2. We have seen balance whining before, but never to the point where they called other people less skilled, saying they did not deserve to be in the league they are in or whining because they have to be aggressive. That is just entitlement.
So is the terran skill ceiling higher or not? By reasoning if people have admitted Terrans have to do way more than Protoss in battles and that P some mechanics are more forgiving then the terran opponent has had to work harder to get where they are at. Thats how I define it atleast. And Pro players do want to win, so what you are saying is that they should switch to terran?..Why don't we see this all the time then?
If we are in the same league, and you are Protoss, Ive worked harder to get where I'm at, and I'll always believe that I have more skill..thats just how I look at it sorry.
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On April 07 2012 03:32 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at" And a very large percentage of those terrans who complain aren't good enough to get their games represented in these graphs.
Contrary to popular opinion, tip top level balance isn't the only thing important to the continued health of the game.
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On April 07 2012 03:43 Superneenja wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:32 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at" It could be a large number of terrans, or a minority of vocal people on a few forums. There were a large number of protoss getting mauled by zergs a while a back, it happens in SC2. We have seen balance whining before, but never to the point where they called other people less skilled, saying they did not deserve to be in the league they are in or whining because they have to be aggressive. That is just entitlement. So is the terran skill ceiling higher or not? By reasoning if people have admitted Terrans have to do way more than Protoss in battles and that P some mechanics are more forgiving then the terran opponent has had to work harder to get where they are at. Thats how I define it atleast. And Pro players do want to win, so what you are saying is that they should switch to terran?..Why don't we see this all the time then? If we are in the same league, and you are Protoss, Ive worked harder to get where I'm at, and I'll always believe that I have more skill..thats just how I look at it sorry.
The terran skill ceiling is not higher and never has been. I don't believe that terran is harder than any other race and I think it is shows a poor competitive attitude, which many be the main problem that a lot of players have. They don't look internally and ask what they could have done to win, they look to the game and say "this is why I lost".
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On April 07 2012 03:48 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:32 ppdealer wrote:On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at" And a very large percentage of those terrans who complain aren't good enough to get their games represented in these graphs. Contrary to popular opinion, tip top level balance isn't the only thing important to the continued health of the game.
A healthy competitive scene depends heavily on balance at the top. It'd be difficult for SC2 to continue being a successful spectator sport if that is ever compromised.
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On April 07 2012 03:58 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:48 Horseballs wrote:On April 07 2012 03:32 ppdealer wrote:On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at" And a very large percentage of those terrans who complain aren't good enough to get their games represented in these graphs. Contrary to popular opinion, tip top level balance isn't the only thing important to the continued health of the game. A healthy competitive scene depends heavily on balance at the top. It'd be difficult for SC2 to continue being a successful spectator sport if that is ever compromised.
Starcraft II's success isn't only as a "spectator sport." It is very important for it to be successful as a game and to have players playing, especially to support that competitive scene.
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On April 07 2012 03:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 07 2012 03:32 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 03:25 Horseballs wrote:On April 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:On April 07 2012 02:43 Superneenja wrote:On April 06 2012 06:18 RemrafGrez wrote:On April 06 2012 06:02 oxxo wrote:On April 06 2012 06:00 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny how all the recent terrans whined against toss lately when at its best PvT never surpassed 55%, before plunging right back into 30%s just like the 1-1-1 era last year.
A bit spoiled there aren't we?
Read the post above yours. Most people aren't complaining about overall win %. It's the early game or die facet of the TvP/Z game. No, he is right. Terran is spoiled if you judge forum posts and community attitude. They win the most and whine that they want TvP mech to be viable, spitting in the face of Protoss everywhere who still lose to 1-1-1 and 1 base marine-tank builds half the time or more. They win the most because their early game is so powerful, no race can stand up to them without extremely perfect scouting and reaction if they decide to be aggressive. Terrans complain about late game Protoss being too hard, while they never try hard to find a way to be 200/200 mech/air which stomps any unit composition Protoss can dream up. Remember what Blizzard is putting in HotS due to player requests? Protoss just wants a fraction of a fighting chance. Terran just wants more ways to dominate despite having the best tools already. Spoiled. Terran winrates out of control at high levels, receive nerfs, still have high winrates. Terrans complain. Forum terrans start spouting crap about "terran is hard at low levels". I'm not buying it, sorry. Those players need to learn to be aggressive and transition out of it, instead of being a braindead aggression=all-in type attituder. They need to learn to play goddamnit. Before I kept reading the post I had to comment on this dumbshit right here. You don't play Terran, nor are you a pro. I don't think most of us are whining because of winning or losing, its because each races objective is different.. its exactly as what Merz says. He has not been the only one to voice their opinion. Another thing we want is the same skill level for all races, because right now Terran has the highest skill ceiling = higher your skill better success with race, where as Z or P do not have this same requirement. No one likes to admit their race is easier to play, but I think its been established that T success scales with your ability to use them properly. I just see Z and P using Korean Win Rates and tournament results as an excuse to think they are on the same skill level as a Terran in their league. The truth is you dont have to be as good, and thats just a blizzard design thing. This TvP problem is mainly in lower league play because people try to play straight up, don't you love it when you get BM'd for using the only option you have against a certain race?...because by the logic on these forums 1 person always represents the view of the majority. Terran is just too limited against P especially, and that needs to change. You are right, no one liked admitting that their race is easy to play. T he same way no one likes admitting that they are not very good a specific match up. Both groups like to blame other things, like imbalance, difficultly, or fear of getting BM'd because they punished a greedy player. Except for the Pros, because they play to win. You have to admit it is quite curious then that it just so happens that for a very large percentage of terrans, TvP is the matchup they all are "not very good at" It could be a large number of terrans, or a minority of vocal people on a few forums. There were a large number of protoss getting mauled by zergs a while a back, it happens in SC2. We have seen balance whining before, but never to the point where they called other people less skilled, saying they did not deserve to be in the league they are in or whining because they have to be aggressive. That is just entitlement. So is the terran skill ceiling higher or not? By reasoning if people have admitted Terrans have to do way more than Protoss in battles and that P some mechanics are more forgiving then the terran opponent has had to work harder to get where they are at. Thats how I define it atleast. And Pro players do want to win, so what you are saying is that they should switch to terran?..Why don't we see this all the time then? If we are in the same league, and you are Protoss, Ive worked harder to get where I'm at, and I'll always believe that I have more skill..thats just how I look at it sorry. The terran skill ceiling is not higher and never has been. I don't believe that terran is harder than any other race and I think it is shows a poor competitive attitude, which many be the main problem that a lot of players have. They don't look internally and ask what they could have done to win, they look to the game and say "this is why I lost".
So by your definition if one race requires you to do substantially more than your opponents race to be on even footing, its not the games fault, just play better?
I had this notion that if you are playing someone on ladder they are around the same skill level as you....here's what it sound like to me
Protoss Player: "Aww man I lost that game, I have to learn a better build and perfect my timings"
Terran Player: "Aww man I lost that game, I have to learn a better build and perfect my timings and learn how to get 300apm to execute it"
"But Terran whiner, why don't you just go sky/mech? It takes less apm and destroys Protoss" < - uhh no it doesn't
I invite all protoss players in denial to go try terran as I have switched to Protoss to see how much success I have. i haven't played any SC2 since season 3/4 and so far I'm 3-0 games in plat. Just to make clear I have no idea of timings, but know some general builds for PvX matchups. 2 PvPs went 3 gate robo against stalker play, the PvZ was a little more challenging, especially when you don't know all the hotkeys...but eventually I got the deathball and won. I have to admit one of my main problems right now is getting supply blocked, but I found that I was able to catch up with chrono.
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So to prove that PvT is imbalanced in favor of P you played 2 PvPs and a PvZ in platinum?
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All Terran players remind me of Veruca Salt. They think that they have a right to have an OP race as they have been spoilt since release. Can't wait until Terran has an even win rate so I can see some tears.
Protoss on the other hand have obviously been underpowered for well over a year now (as shown by this chart) and if it was not for cheesy 2 base all ins, I bet that Protoss would have a >20% w/l in PvZ. PvT is obviously favoured towards T (as shown by this chart) as their early game is way too strong.
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EPT
