EPTTLPD March winrates - Page 8
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zimms
Austria561 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On April 06 2012 17:26 Thrombozyt wrote: Look at the number of games. The number of games for the Korean stats in March is half as high as the usual amount. Now split the 240 games (that may or may not include mirrors - any confimation on that?) three-ways and you get 80 games per matchup and HUGE statistical variations. It's already bad for the usualy 500 games per month in Korea in terms of statistical error, but this month is much much much worse. Ah I see, thanks for pointing that out! :D | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 06 2012 17:26 Thrombozyt wrote: Look at the number of games. The number of games for the Korean stats in March is half as high as the usual amount. Now split the 240 games (that may or may not include mirrors - any confimation on that?) three-ways and you get 80 games per matchup and HUGE statistical variations. It's already bad for the usualy 500 games per month in Korea in terms of statistical error, but this month is much much much worse. They will still get updated, won't they? I think January (?) was a big uproar because Protoss beat Terran by a lot at first but then it balanced out. But yeah, shows how volatile those "low amount" of games statistics are. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8700 Posts
On April 06 2012 08:31 Antimatterz wrote: HOLY SMOKES ZERGS ARE OVER 50% AGAINST TERRAN INTERNATIONALLY!!!! Hell, it's about time! You deserved it   Rather interesting stats - time for another T nerf? I just hope the complete and utter out of proportion T QQ will stop. But then again - if it gets worse I am fine with it as well, since it´s funny as hell :D | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On April 06 2012 17:42 WizardofGGG wrote: oh the sweet rage and hate against terran, im seriously starting to enjoy this. jokes aside, korean sample is really small, people should start realising this, as the smaller the sample size is the more extreme the outcome will be. We should expect a Protoss Buff if Protoss keeps losing more, which would be understandable, looking at the international winrates. Maybe once no Terran in patchnotes lol We should expect a slight early game buff to protoss, and potentially a slight lategame nerf(related to colossus most likely in the form of nerfing upgrade effectiveness somehow, base damage on colossus is fine). From what I've seen of both PvZ and PvT though it'd be really hard to buff PvT early game without breaking 2base allins vs zerg unless it's something really, really subtle. What I mean by subtle is like a 5% decrease on stalker fire animation time(note this is not a dps increase except in exceedingly rare cases) to slightly increase margin for error when kiting marines for example. Very minor things that nudge the balance one way or another in early game without affecting lategame | ||
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GiftPflanZe
Germany623 Posts
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DawN883
Sweden558 Posts
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
On April 06 2012 07:24 Shiori wrote: The sample size in Korea is way too low to make any conclusions about anything. What, are the same Terrans who are massacring Protoss player somehow confounded by Zergs in Korea? Come on. International statistics are what matter, especially since they include the Korean tournaments. Statistics at all do not matter for shit. How can games that might have players in their slumps or doing shitty tactics or just failing with simple stuff really be a good ground for balance arguing? Stop going after statistics and use it as a foundation for balance. | ||
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zimms
Austria561 Posts
On April 06 2012 18:08 Olsson wrote: Statistics at all do not matter for shit. How can games that might have players in their slumps or doing shitty tactics or just failing with simple stuff really be a good ground for balance arguing? Stop going after statistics and use it as a foundation for balance. So you would be OK with it, if we only used one game per match up to determine balance? | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8700 Posts
On April 06 2012 18:08 Olsson wrote: Statistics at all do not matter for shit. How can games that might have players in their slumps or doing shitty tactics or just failing with simple stuff really be a good ground for balance arguing? Stop going after statistics and use it as a foundation for balance. Then you shall be our leader that gets us out of the valley of darkness, and shows us the true way of how to get a sense of when the game is "ok" and when it´s not. So Boss - where do we go from here, I am for gut feeling myself but cruel people on the interwebz don´t agree with my gut feeling since they got their own gut, feelings included. //sarcasm It´s not perfect, but due to the lack of other sophisticaded measurements that include ridiculously many factors(a player slumping included - LOL) - I guess it will do regardless. | ||
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TuElite
Canada2123 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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Jono7272
United Kingdom6330 Posts
On April 06 2012 05:33 Drowsy wrote: looooool. Protoss was ahead by a few % points and master's terrans decided to boycott ladder en masse while everyone on tl.net claimed protoss was by far the easiest and strongest race in the game and badly needed a nerf. It's nice to be back at the status quo. Game is well within the range of balanced, no more whining. more gg, more skill. No one was saying the game is imbalanced at the pro level (Korean pro level), we all knew Korean Terrans are capable of beating protosses. I still believe at Masters level, protoss have an easier time against terran, especially once it reaches late game if the terran isn't considerably ahead. Recently I have been starting to win more TvP, even in late game, but I have to play like a fucking beast.. haha. | ||
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robih
Austria1086 Posts
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
On April 06 2012 18:46 zimms wrote: So you would be OK with it, if we only used one game per match up to determine balance? Yes. If both players played it out perfectly, reacting and playing to the races highest capability on an even map then I would be fine with it. Problem with statistics is that this isnt the case. Instead within the statistics there are games of bad maps, 6pools, cannon rushes, critical supply blocks, lack of scouting, etc I can go on... | ||
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria923 Posts
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria923 Posts
On April 07 2012 00:03 Olsson wrote: Yes. If both players played it out perfectly, reacting and playing to the races highest capability on an even map then I would be fine with it. Problem with statistics is that this isnt the case. Instead within the statistics there are games of bad maps, 6pools, cannon rushes, critical supply blocks, lack of scouting, etc I can go on... Are those things not part of the games balance? Yea it's important to analyze even macro games, but if for example a 6 pool is imbalanced, how is that ok? If something is part of the meta game then it must be factored in.. | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 06 2012 18:03 Amui wrote: We should expect a slight early game buff to protoss, and potentially a slight lategame nerf(related to colossus most likely in the form of nerfing upgrade effectiveness somehow, base damage on colossus is fine). From what I've seen of both PvZ and PvT though it'd be really hard to buff PvT early game without breaking 2base allins vs zerg unless it's something really, really subtle. What I mean by subtle is like a 5% decrease on stalker fire animation time(note this is not a dps increase except in exceedingly rare cases) to slightly increase margin for error when kiting marines for example. Very minor things that nudge the balance one way or another in early game without affecting lategame They should just give us our old warp gate research time. It was nerfed specifically for PvP, so that players could do something other than 4 gate. That didn't work, so they came up with the ramp vision fix, which actually did fix PvP. Reverting the warp gate change wouldn't hurt PvP because of how sentries work now in that matchup, but it would drastically improve our early game PvT and PvZ by allowing us to threaten more. One of the biggest issues with PvZ right now, for example, is that you simply can't really threaten zerg much with a one base play. He simply goes up one base over toss, drones up a bunch, and hits his timing right to defend and *Bam* toss loses. Earlier warp gate would make 3 gate sentry expand more viable because the nexus would get down sooner and it would make zerg play a little safer. It'd also allow for early pressure off of FFE to be a little easier which would limit zerg's ability to drone to infinity and beyond. Earlier warp gate in PvT would make holding off really early aggression like 2 rax or early all-ins easier as well, without making Protoss any stronger in the mid game or the late game in that matchup. | ||
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tenklavir
Slovakia116 Posts
On April 07 2012 00:03 Olsson wrote: Yes. If both players played it out perfectly, reacting and playing to the races highest capability on an even map then I would be fine with it. Problem with statistics is that this isnt the case. Instead within the statistics there are games of bad maps, 6pools, cannon rushes, critical supply blocks, lack of scouting, etc I can go on... Please show me this mythical game where both players play perfectly and make no mistakes on an even map. Oh...it doesn't exist? Damn...I guess using statistics is a good fallback plan in that case | ||
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