"e-Sports Federation" formed by SC2 teams - Page 16

Most of the complaining in this thread seems to come from the fact that foreigners will apparently be run out of sc2 tournaments. However as most of you point out, the foreigners will most likely not be able to play in these tournaments because they are not skilled enough, have scheduling conflicts and aren't part of a Korean team. People also seem to think that kespa is evil. However, I think that all of these issues comes back down to most of the foreign scene not being as skilled as the Koreans for the exception of the hate towards kespa.

The most skilled people so far in bw and sc2 with a few exceptions in sc2 (mainly huk as far as I know, I only follow bw) are Korean. As FXOboSs pointed out, this is because the Koreans seem to have a stronger work ethic, and put a lot of effort into practicing and playing the game. People such as TBLS are well known for their strong work ethic, putting in an amazing amount of time and effort into their game. Jaedong is probably the best example as back in oz, he had to carry his team through PL, while doing extremely well in individual leagues. This dedication is what leads people like Jaedong to be at the top of their games. However most foreigners are nowhere as dedicated as this, and also lack the infrastructure as a practice house which provides food, B teamers for practice partners and just a stable environment to work/game in. Many people who go to Korea for sc2 and stay in practice houses there improve dramatically because of the schedule and amount of work they put into the game. How well you play the game comes down to practice, and a natural skill cap. However to come to the level where you want to compete internationally, the main difference between players is just practice and the level of dedication and the amount of work you put in, something which as far as I can see, foreigners are lacking relative to their Korean competitors. Grrrr was one of the few foreigners that made it (and the most successful). He moved over there permanently joined a team, and competed in SPL and individual tournaments. He was skillful enough to gain his spot in the tournaments (although he apparently wasn't very dedicated) and he played in them.

The issues of scheduling and not being on a Korean team also come down to the players skill. Almost all of the top tournaments in sc2 and bw are in Korea. If you want to get to the top of the game, then it makes sense to go to Korea to compete. Although the tournaments outside of Korea can be big, their level of competition is nowhere as high, as someone such as TLO (no offense, you are part of TeamLiquid, I love you long time <3) has not qualified for for GSL code A (as far as I can see on tlpd/liquipedia) is invited to these foreigner tournaments. These events might be larger, more accessible and more fun then the Korean events, but are worse in regards to the skill of the players. For someone who is at the top levels of the game, the main tournament is the GSL, which is in korea. Thus they should base themselves in Korea, and not pay too much attention to the other tournaments, as they do not offer the level of competition that can be found in Korea. Then it also makes sense to be part of a Korean team, or at least a team based in Korea (FXO for example), and play most of the matches/tournaments in Korea. If this happens, then no scheduling conflicts should occur, and as they take part in their Korean tournaments, and do not worry about the smaller ones. To not be part of these tournaments suggests that your skill level is not high enough, or that you do not have the time/dedication or aren't aiming to try and get to the top.

The special consideration of foreigners to take part in top tournaments undermines the tournament, as it becomes more about gaining viewers then the top players trying to beat each other. If you want a special league where you can watch your favorite non GSL level player play, you can have it, but it should not be forced into the top level tournaments (GSL). These second level tournaments, as far as I know, do not seem to last for long. Tournaments such as the female individual leagues in bw had the same idea. You could watch your favourite female player, who would be more attractive then the male players (although Jaedong is better then Tossgirl), the main point of watching them play, was to watch the game. You do not tune into a stream to watch a video of that player as they play, you watch what is happening in the game. This means that in the long run, what is most important is the level of game play, as although Tossgirl was the best female bw player, she was just a b teamer in a mixed sex team, and thus the gameplay was not that interesting relative to the mixed sex tournaments. Also the ethnicity of the players does not matter. I watch bw, and I cheer for Jaedong. I don't cheer for him because he looks the nicest, I don't cheer for him for any other reason other then the fact that he is the best zerg there is, and I want to be like him. If a Croatian or an Australian player were to somehow make it into PL or an OSL, I would cheer for them, but not above Jaedong. I agree that foreigners in top tournaments can increase accessibility to the tournament, but the people who would watch the tournament just to watch their national player, would also watch a second rate tournament to watch their nation player. There is no need to special consideration for foreigners for top tournaments because if special consideration takes place you are undermining the tournament, and if you want an accessibly tournament which international viewers can easily watch, create your own secondary league, such as NASL. Most viewers come from watching top people play, not from watching the prettiest people play.

There also seems to be many people thinking that kespa is evil. I think this is wrong, and that almost everything they have done, it for the betterment of esports. They have made many controversial decisions, including disqualifying people for typing pp instead of ppp, however typing pp at the time was against the rules. Sure the rules were amazingly stupid, but before then kespa didn't realize that and probably no one else did. I do not think there would be anyone who complained to someone about how to pause ppp and only ppp had to be typed before the controversy. As soon as kespa realized that their rule was stupid, the fixed it. But before the rule was changed, the rule was a rule, and it was carried out. The players have a right to know that the rules are there and will be followed, not matter how stupid they seem or how great the backlash. When playing a game at the professional level you should know the rules, and expect to be punished if you break them. Shit happens. When several teams where disbanded last season, kespa stepped in and created a new team. Kespa does not care about individual people/teams, they care about the sport, and how best to keep the sport alive. As said before also, foreigners can play in kespa tournaments (Grrrr), they just have to be good enough to compete.


The lack of foreigners at a top level seems to be because of a lack of dedication and skill, and the special consideration of foreigners for these tournaments undermines the tournament. The banding together of the sc2 teams to try and fight a group which has the main interest of creating the top level of competition as they want to preserve themselves sounds like a fear of adaptation. You should base your business around the game, not the game around your business as without the game, your business is dead, but without your business the game will still live, although it might not be as large as it could be.

Most of the complaining in this thread seems to come from the fact that foreigners will apparently be run out of sc2 tournaments. However as most of you point out, the foreigners will most likely not be able to play in these tournaments because they are not skilled enough, have scheduling conflicts and aren't part of a Korean team. People also seem to think that kespa is evil. However, I think that all of these issues comes back down to most of the foreign scene not being as skilled as the Koreans for the exception of the hate towards kespa.

The most skilled people so far in bw and sc2 with a few exceptions in sc2 (mainly huk as far as I know, I only follow bw) are Korean. As FXOboSs pointed out, this is because the Koreans seem to have a stronger work ethic, and put a lot of effort into practicing and playing the game. People such as TBLS are well known for their strong work ethic, putting in an amazing amount of time and effort into their game. Jaedong is probably the best example as back in oz, he had to carry his team through PL, while doing extremely well in individual leagues. This dedication is what leads people like Jaedong to be at the top of their games. However most foreigners are nowhere as dedicated as this, and also lack the infrastructure as a practice house which provides food, B teamers for practice partners and just a stable environment to work/game in. Many people who go to Korea for sc2 and stay in practice houses there improve dramatically because of the schedule and amount of work they put into the game. How well you play the game comes down to practice, and a natural skill cap. However to come to the level where you want to compete internationally, the main difference between players is just practice and the level of dedication and the amount of work you put in, something which as far as I can see, foreigners are lacking relative to their Korean competitors. Grrrr was one of the few foreigners that made it (and the most successful). He moved over there permanently joined a team, and competed in SPL and individual tournaments. He was skillful enough to gain his spot in the tournaments (although he apparently wasn't very dedicated) and he played in them.

The issues of scheduling and not being on a Korean team also come down to the players skill. Almost all of the top tournaments in sc2 and bw are in Korea. If you want to get to the top of the game, then it makes sense to go to Korea to compete. Although the tournaments outside of Korea can be big, their level of competition is nowhere as high, as someone such as TLO (no offense, you are part of TeamLiquid, I love you long time <3) has not qualified for for GSL code A (as far as I can see on tlpd/liquipedia) is invited to these foreigner tournaments. These events might be larger, more accessible and more fun then the Korean events, but are worse in regards to the skill of the players. For someone who is at the top levels of the game, the main tournament is the GSL, which is in korea. Thus they should base themselves in Korea, and not pay too much attention to the other tournaments, as they do not offer the level of competition that can be found in Korea. Then it also makes sense to be part of a Korean team, or at least a team based in Korea (FXO for example), and play most of the matches/tournaments in Korea. If this happens, then no scheduling conflicts should occur, and as they take part in their Korean tournaments, and do not worry about the smaller ones. To not be part of these tournaments suggests that your skill level is not high enough, or that you do not have the time/dedication or aren't aiming to try and get to the top.

The special consideration of foreigners to take part in top tournaments undermines the tournament, as it becomes more about gaining viewers then the top players trying to beat each other. If you want a special league where you can watch your favorite non GSL level player play, you can have it, but it should not be forced into the top level tournaments (GSL). These second level tournaments, as far as I know, do not seem to last for long. Tournaments such as the female individual leagues in bw had the same idea. You could watch your favourite female player, who would be more attractive then the male players (although Jaedong is better then Tossgirl), the main point of watching them play, was to watch the game. You do not tune into a stream to watch a video of that player as they play, you watch what is happening in the game. This means that in the long run, what is most important is the level of game play, as although Tossgirl was the best female bw player, she was just a b teamer in a mixed sex team, and thus the gameplay was not that interesting relative to the mixed sex tournaments. Also the ethnicity of the players does not matter. I watch bw, and I cheer for Jaedong. I don't cheer for him because he looks the nicest, I don't cheer for him for any other reason other then the fact that he is the best zerg there is, and I want to be like him. If a Croatian or an Australian player were to somehow make it into PL or an OSL, I would cheer for them, but not above Jaedong. I agree that foreigners in top tournaments can increase accessibility to the tournament, but the people who would watch the tournament just to watch their national player, would also watch a second rate tournament to watch their nation player. There is no need to special consideration for foreigners for top tournaments because if special consideration takes place you are undermining the tournament, and if you want an accessibly tournament which international viewers can easily watch, create your own secondary league, such as NASL. Most viewers come from watching top people play, not from watching the prettiest people play.

There also seems to be many people thinking that kespa is evil. I think this is wrong, and that almost everything they have done, it for the betterment of esports. They have made many controversial decisions, including disqualifying people for typing pp instead of ppp, however typing pp at the time was against the rules. Sure the rules were amazingly stupid, but before then kespa didn't realize that and probably no one else did. I do not think there would be anyone who complained to someone about how to pause ppp and only ppp had to be typed before the controversy. As soon as kespa realized that their rule was stupid, the fixed it. But before the rule was changed, the rule was a rule, and it was carried out. The players have a right to know that the rules are there and will be followed, not matter how stupid they seem or how great the backlash. When playing a game at the professional level you should know the rules, and expect to be punished if you break them. Shit happens. When several teams where disbanded last season, kespa stepped in and created a new team. Kespa does not care about individual people/teams, they care about the sport, and how best to keep the sport alive. As said before also, foreigners can play in kespa tournaments (Grrrr), they just have to be good enough to compete.


The lack of foreigners at a top level seems to be because of a lack of dedication and skill, and the special consideration of foreigners for these tournaments undermines the tournament. The banding together of the sc2 teams to try and fight a group which has the main interest of creating the top level of competition as they want to preserve themselves sounds like a fear of adaptation. You should base your business around the game, not the game around your business as without the game, your business is dead, but without your business the game will still live, although it might not be as large as it could be.