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On March 30 2012 19:09 FXOBoSs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 18:53 mrtomjones wrote:On March 30 2012 18:45 eviltomahawk wrote:FXOBoSs just posted a really interesting blog on this matter. http://fxoboss.tumblr.com/post/20162736523/kespa-and-korea+ Show Spoiler +KESPA and Korea
OK OK OK I give in.. I will blog again.
Why did I stop? Well, people keep whining at me because the truth hurts them. And they whine in a way that can potentially effect my organisation. However!
The current topic will effect the future of starcraft 2. I don’t care who you are, or what you do, but if you are a foreigner in sc2 you should start to think about the future…properly.
Firstly, I am going to describe a few things about e-sports and e-sports organisations.
Whilst there are a few people out there spreading the word of e-sports to the broader community (I am not one of them, other than our FXOpen clients), the majority of the e-sports communities are EXTREMELY insular. They promote the product internally only and only care about the effects of their insular communities.
This can be seen in many many cases of foreign e-sports, and also can be seen in Korea.
Now, here is the fine print before I go forward.
Having a team as part of the new foundation in Korea means that the information I am providing here is 2nd hand information directly from the foundation, and not gom blizzard or kespa. The lack of transparency is the reason I am talking about this but information is slowly being fed out. I am merely reporting it.
One of the most insular businesses in e-sports history is KESPA. I am not saying KESPA is a bad organisation, but they are extremely insular and secretive. This comes under business practices in ASIA its standard and to be expected. However it doesn’t work for a global business model.
KESPA is a korean organisation. It has only legal rights to govern other korean organisations. Thus, for someone to be involved in KESPA’s organisation they must be a Korean organisation.
This is where things get a bit tricky. At the moment as things are, foreign teams have a small presence in korea, via partnerships and what not. This is not governable by KESPA legally. You cannot govern a foreign entity entirely *note entirely* when it only has a partial presence in Korea. And whilst some foreign organisations like to think they can control everything, with this they cannot.
I was asked the question yesterday whether or not we are a Foreign or Korean team. I asked why and got the results of both. I have now declared my team a Korean team, with foreign players (Strelok bratok etc). How does this work?
We have 16 players, all korean nationals, all based in korea. This makes us a korean team. Should you have 1 korean and 20 foreigners with no house in korea bla bla, you are a foreign team.
From the information given to me, only Korean entities will be participating in the upcoming proleague. Rightly so, considering KESPA is a korean organisation.
People have been asking why I actually said “potentially this could be the end of foreigners in korea”. Whilst its been taken out of context, I would like to explain this further.
Firstly, Proleague money will mean, koreans want to work harder for the korean events (minus a few exceptions of course).
As it stands, there would be 2 maybe 3 foreigners who would qualify for a A team spot to play in proleague. But they aren’t on Korean teams. Which means, they wouldnt be eligable for proleague either at least as I have been informed yesterday.
Next, in order to keep up with the level of play korea will produce, you will need a full korean support and presence in korea. Fnatic potentially will have that, but right now I don’t see any other ‘foreign labelled’ team doing so on their own. Which means that it eliminates the opportunity for a large number of foreigners to play in korea.
Foreign-korean partnerships are what the federation will be fighting for. Trying to keep teams as they are, and allowing for the foreigners to be there at the same time and potentially play via partnership. As it stands there is a threat of this being taken away. I dont want it, you don’t want it, we don’t want it. But the potential is there.
Now, what I am saying is NOT what will happen exactly. There is some sort of trade off thats going to happen. But I am merely stating potential under current information and circumstances.
However other things to keep in mind. If proleague starts, its unlikely the TOP koreans will attend foreign events due to scheduling/obligations. As far as scheduling goes, if proleague and GSL run side by side, my team would have time for 2 foreign events per year. This is an arrow in the knee to the koreans joining foreign teams. Its also a swift kick in the balls to foreign events banking on korean star popularity.
So I would offer a few solutions personally to a means of making this work for everyone.
Firstly, some nationalised events need to start, similar to GSL to promote movement forward globally.
Next, KESPA/foundation like organisations should be made in each major area of SC2, and then connect together with the korean organisations to some how barter the entire system.
If these things happen, sc2 can grow everywhere. But as things stand, it looks like its just going to do what brood war did all over again. And no one wants that.
As it stands, if people remain so insular and do not open their mind in terms of business and organisation, starcraft looks to once again be a korean game just as brood war did. But there is an opportunity now for everyone to go the right direction and make it a global business with entities around the world.
(I know one person in particular who will cry and whine about what I have written, but I think thats because the Korean “federation” was formed before he had a chance /stab)
<3 FXOBoSs Some good insights in there. edit: sniped >_< Hmmm I hope FXOBoss is able to tell Kespa/Whoever needs to be told how important the foreign scene is to the future of SC2. I doubt my interest would be nearly as high without people like Huk fighting it out in tournaments. The only time I will guaranteed stay up to watch GSL at night is when he plays or a couple other of my favorites play(Idra/Jinro/Maybe Naniwa this GSL) Ignoring such a huge viewer base's needs would as he said limit and perhaps kill all growth for SC2 :/ Killing the business model that could emerge. I dno about the viewer base situation. Honestly, I think the korean players/events get a bucket load more consistent viewers than other tournaments and most of the viewership is outside of Korea. At least for sc2. Everyone wants what is best for everyone, other than business. Of course I aim to look after my business, but of course, I am not exactly a Korean business. I want sc2 to be viable everywhere, because if that occurs, theres more money for business. Actually the condition of sc2 today is not a great one. There is a heavy tilt in funding and that tends not to work out well in the long run. The top 16's are dominated by people from 1 part of the world, which is a clear indicator that the rest of the world minus a select few, are doing it wrong. I would like the US and major countries in europe to pick up the korean mentality for practice and professionalism, and compete directly with koreans. Hoping that one day a global starcraft league (gsl) can be 50/50 korean foreign. Or even less koreans. Not because I don't like koreans but because I love competition. At the moment you would have an 90% chance of winning a bet that a korean will win a major event. The odds are heavily in their favour and for sc2 to be global that has to change. Which means its not the koreans who need to change their mindset, its the foreigners. I do hope everything works out well so that the global exposure explodes. But things have to change in many different ways for sc2 for the foreign scene to a truly viable one.
And that is why we are living in a dream, everyone is so butthurt about Kespa but they are not seeing the whole picture, THEY did it, was it luck or not, culture whatever. Now everyone outside of Korea have to pay the price of falling behind, its problem of the global SC community.
It is not a problem of Korea to convert global masses into starcraft its OUR problem and we are paying the price NOW when SC2 is global. This whole thing we discuss now is a farce, i love Korean starcraft but i guess many people here would want to see foreigner SC, people should stop living the dream of foreigner powerhouses in Korea. Kespa being open to foreigners or closed has no meaning to making foreign starcraft strong, foreigners in Korea =/ foreign starcraft.
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Hope this is going to protect the sc2 players.
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On March 30 2012 19:46 GoSuChicken wrote:
Hope this is going to protect the sc2 players.
Protect them from money and fame?
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What makes a sport truly global is that people of all nationalities participate. On the one end, we have full korean roster. SC2 becomes korean only, and i can only see its global popularity decrease. No one has a player from their country they can cheer. A non-asiatic player. An hispanic, indian, australian or whatever player they can identify with. It's just koreans. On the other end (kind of utopic for now) we have people from many countries playing and competing at the highest level, people that previously didn't know the game now cheer for the star of their country, or that they can identify with.
How much F1 popularity was brought to Brazil, for instance, because of the many F1 great racers that brazil produced? same about Germany ? UK ? Italy and the ferrari? Renault from france ? on the few times that USA football (soccer) team did well in the world championship we saw a rise in popularity of the sport there. People that didn't watch it, now watching it with stress and pleasure, cheering for their country. Had F1 only had chinese racers and only raced on china, it couldn't be seen as a global sport, as it is now, and it would be only popular in china.
If sc2 is to succeed as global, then as FXOBoss said, more non-koreans need to play at the highest level, outside of korea, otherwise it will become another BW and eventually die there.
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calling it esports federation is wrong imo since it doesnt cover all the other games!
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On March 30 2012 19:53 KAkos MAgos wrote:
calling it esports federation is wrong imo since it doesnt cover all the other games!
Cause all other games support eSports right "Insert Kappa Here"
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Well good. I was wondering how they were to deal with kespa and bw teams with the switch. Thank goodness they formed an association to try to negotiate and compromise instead of compete. Mainly because, I've seen many say that ogn would eat gom right up.
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In the end I hope it's good for every side and the most important SC2.
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This is a really really important development, I hope that they will be able to resist a strongarming Kespa. Otherwise the international scene will be shut out again.
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On March 30 2012 18:30 naux wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 18:22 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 18:17 mrtomjones wrote:On March 30 2012 17:58 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 17:48 AegiS_ wrote:On March 30 2012 16:58 insanet wrote:
you better bring an army and nukes if you want Kespa to even care about you and your little teams. "your little teams"..? these teams include the absolute best players in the SC2 pro-scene. if they (KeSPA) don't work with, or try to bully around, the e-sports federation then they won't get the best talent in SC2. good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol. "Good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol." Is this a joke? I would watch a SC2 league with ex-BW players in a heartbeat. Grow up. uhhh Grow up to his comment dude? Look in the mirror. SC2 has a huge fan base with many of them coming only to SC2 and not through BW. Those people want to see the players they love(MMA/DRG/MKP/MC) etc. Would they watch Jaedong/Bisu/Flash play? Probably. But I very much doubt the interest level in the rest of the BW players would be nearly as high and watching subpar play which is what it would be for a good while wouldn't be what a lot of people would want. The single best way for this to happen for ESports is for them to get along and work together and have a shared player base and cooperation. I want the two scenes to work together and create a wonderful new era. I don't think you thought about what I typed, I am not against a confluence of the scenes. Alot of people dont understand that foreigners ARE SC2, i never watched SC:BW or cared about it untill SC2 came out and so did alot of other people. I could care less about this "Flash" or "Jaedong" why? because i started watching SC2 with all the MVP, NesTea, MC, MKP'ssssss so i have no idea who or really care about the SC1 pros. Only thing i want to truly see is these so called Brood War pros come into SC2 and try to own the SC2 regulars and just get dominated.
And your evidence for this is the fact that you personally don't care about koreans?
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On March 30 2012 19:51 Apolo wrote:
What makes a sport truly global is that people of all nationalities participate. On the one end, we have full korean roster. SC2 becomes korean only, and i can only see its global popularity decrease. No one has a player from their country they can cheer. A non-asiatic player. An hispanic, indian, australian or whatever player they can identify with. It's just koreans. On the other end (kind of utopic for now) we have people from many countries playing and competing at the highest level, people that previously didn't know the game now cheer for the star of their country, or that they can identify with.
How much F1 popularity was brought to Brazil, for instance, because of the many F1 great racers that brazil produced? same about Germany ? UK ? Italy and the ferrari? Renault from france ? on the few times that USA football (soccer) team did well in the world championship we saw a rise in popularity of the sport there. People that didn't watch it, now watching it with stress and pleasure, cheering for their country. Had F1 only had chinese racers and only raced on china, it couldn't be seen as a global sport, as it is now, and it would be only popular in china.
If sc2 is to succeed as global, then as FXOBoss said, more non-koreans need to play at the highest level, outside of korea, otherwise it will become another BW and eventually die there.
Every Computer game will eventually die when it is too old to bring new players in. Thats sad but that is how it is. Besides that the publisher has an interest that the a game dies someday because he wants to sell a new one.
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On March 30 2012 20:03 BritWrangler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 18:30 naux wrote:On March 30 2012 18:22 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 18:17 mrtomjones wrote:On March 30 2012 17:58 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 17:48 AegiS_ wrote:On March 30 2012 16:58 insanet wrote:
you better bring an army and nukes if you want Kespa to even care about you and your little teams. "your little teams"..? these teams include the absolute best players in the SC2 pro-scene. if they (KeSPA) don't work with, or try to bully around, the e-sports federation then they won't get the best talent in SC2. good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol. "Good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol." Is this a joke? I would watch a SC2 league with ex-BW players in a heartbeat. Grow up. uhhh Grow up to his comment dude? Look in the mirror. SC2 has a huge fan base with many of them coming only to SC2 and not through BW. Those people want to see the players they love(MMA/DRG/MKP/MC) etc. Would they watch Jaedong/Bisu/Flash play? Probably. But I very much doubt the interest level in the rest of the BW players would be nearly as high and watching subpar play which is what it would be for a good while wouldn't be what a lot of people would want. The single best way for this to happen for ESports is for them to get along and work together and have a shared player base and cooperation. I want the two scenes to work together and create a wonderful new era. I don't think you thought about what I typed, I am not against a confluence of the scenes. Alot of people dont understand that foreigners ARE SC2, i never watched SC:BW or cared about it untill SC2 came out and so did alot of other people. I could care less about this "Flash" or "Jaedong" why? because i started watching SC2 with all the MVP, NesTea, MC, MKP'ssssss so i have no idea who or really care about the SC1 pros. Only thing i want to truly see is these so called Brood War pros come into SC2 and try to own the SC2 regulars and just get dominated. And your evidence for this is the fact that you personally don't care about koreans?
did you read what i wrote or just the first sentence?
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On March 30 2012 20:05 naux wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 20:03 BritWrangler wrote:On March 30 2012 18:30 naux wrote:On March 30 2012 18:22 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 18:17 mrtomjones wrote:On March 30 2012 17:58 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 17:48 AegiS_ wrote:On March 30 2012 16:58 insanet wrote:
you better bring an army and nukes if you want Kespa to even care about you and your little teams. "your little teams"..? these teams include the absolute best players in the SC2 pro-scene. if they (KeSPA) don't work with, or try to bully around, the e-sports federation then they won't get the best talent in SC2. good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol. "Good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol." Is this a joke? I would watch a SC2 league with ex-BW players in a heartbeat. Grow up. uhhh Grow up to his comment dude? Look in the mirror. SC2 has a huge fan base with many of them coming only to SC2 and not through BW. Those people want to see the players they love(MMA/DRG/MKP/MC) etc. Would they watch Jaedong/Bisu/Flash play? Probably. But I very much doubt the interest level in the rest of the BW players would be nearly as high and watching subpar play which is what it would be for a good while wouldn't be what a lot of people would want. The single best way for this to happen for ESports is for them to get along and work together and have a shared player base and cooperation. I want the two scenes to work together and create a wonderful new era. I don't think you thought about what I typed, I am not against a confluence of the scenes. Alot of people dont understand that foreigners ARE SC2, i never watched SC:BW or cared about it untill SC2 came out and so did alot of other people. I could care less about this "Flash" or "Jaedong" why? because i started watching SC2 with all the MVP, NesTea, MC, MKP'ssssss so i have no idea who or really care about the SC1 pros. Only thing i want to truly see is these so called Brood War pros come into SC2 and try to own the SC2 regulars and just get dominated. And your evidence for this is the fact that you personally don't care about koreans? did you read what i wrote or just the first sentence?
You start with claiming a fact and the rest is just your personal opinion...
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On March 30 2012 14:00 Adebisi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 13:46 FXOBoSs wrote:
Hi guys,
The point of this association is purely to show that we have done the hard yards as organisations in Korea and abroad to get sc2 to where it is now. It would be improper for an organisation such as Kespa to then say "join us or die".
It also promotes the ability to run 2 leagues in Korea so that the players have more incentive to train hard. If there is no resistance or discussion between the two sides, there will be heavy schedule overlaps between proleague and GSL. It would also mean you would have to pick which side you wanted to be part of.
It 'potentially' would mean an end to foreigners in korea as well. Which none of us want of course.
I hope this helps.
Regards
FXOBoSs Why did SlayerS choose not be be involved?
SlayerS is like Amex, They always do their own thing, have their own rules and come on a separate processing statement every month. (People who take credit cards for a living knows what I am talking about  )
Not that it's a bad thing
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I think slayers chose not to be involved because they don't wanna get in kespa's bad side.
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On March 30 2012 19:36 SirElton wrote:
An important step for the global SC2 community..
It is important...but is it in a good way or a bad way? Time will tell...
...i tend to be a bit pesimistic about this news.
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is this panic mode to prevent kespa from taking over too fast?
i hope they negotiate a deal that includes both osl/pro league and gsl/gstl
with kespa comming to sc2 the next few months will be exciting.
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The problem with this organization is the fact that they still have no leverage whatsoever over KeSPA. I don't see any reason why KeSPA can't say "fuck you guys" to this organization and do their own business.
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With no LAN in reality almost ALL the power lies with Blizzard not kespa or this new federation. Blizz can just block IP addresses or whatever they want to whomever they want.
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On March 30 2012 20:06 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 20:05 naux wrote:On March 30 2012 20:03 BritWrangler wrote:On March 30 2012 18:30 naux wrote:On March 30 2012 18:22 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 18:17 mrtomjones wrote:On March 30 2012 17:58 Blackrobe wrote:On March 30 2012 17:48 AegiS_ wrote:On March 30 2012 16:58 insanet wrote:
you better bring an army and nukes if you want Kespa to even care about you and your little teams. "your little teams"..? these teams include the absolute best players in the SC2 pro-scene. if they (KeSPA) don't work with, or try to bully around, the e-sports federation then they won't get the best talent in SC2. good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol. "Good luck running an sc2 tournament without DRG, MKP, Nestea, MVP etc lolol." Is this a joke? I would watch a SC2 league with ex-BW players in a heartbeat. Grow up. uhhh Grow up to his comment dude? Look in the mirror. SC2 has a huge fan base with many of them coming only to SC2 and not through BW. Those people want to see the players they love(MMA/DRG/MKP/MC) etc. Would they watch Jaedong/Bisu/Flash play? Probably. But I very much doubt the interest level in the rest of the BW players would be nearly as high and watching subpar play which is what it would be for a good while wouldn't be what a lot of people would want. The single best way for this to happen for ESports is for them to get along and work together and have a shared player base and cooperation. I want the two scenes to work together and create a wonderful new era. I don't think you thought about what I typed, I am not against a confluence of the scenes. Alot of people dont understand that foreigners ARE SC2, i never watched SC:BW or cared about it untill SC2 came out and so did alot of other people. I could care less about this "Flash" or "Jaedong" why? because i started watching SC2 with all the MVP, NesTea, MC, MKP'ssssss so i have no idea who or really care about the SC1 pros. Only thing i want to truly see is these so called Brood War pros come into SC2 and try to own the SC2 regulars and just get dominated. And your evidence for this is the fact that you personally don't care about koreans? did you read what i wrote or just the first sentence? You start with claiming a fact and the rest is just your personal opinion...
isnt that the point of a post, suppose to be my own opinion? LOL jesus christ
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EPT
