EPTA win is still a win. Stop trying to discredit Taeja.
Liquid`TaeJa - Page 62
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
A win is still a win. Stop trying to discredit Taeja. | ||
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deusson
Ukraine3 Posts
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LunaSea
Luxembourg369 Posts
Well some people seem to insist on the fact that he just beat DRG 2-0 in Code S Group A and therefore that he must be better ... that's like saying that Jjakji should be #1 and Taeja #2 because Jjakji 2-1'd Taeja. And your right that's not how Elo works. | ||
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Waterflow
Sweden1550 Posts
On March 29 2012 21:49 Nekovivie wrote: The Koreans will out number the others on Liquid soon :D There are 3 koreans and 6 "foreigners" on the team. Since i can't see teamliquid having 12 players it doesn't sound very likely that the koreans will out number the rest. Would be more likely that 1 "foreigner" would be sacked and 1 more korean added so there would be a more equal number of both. | ||
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Evergrowth
Norway21 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On March 29 2012 21:33 LunaSea wrote: Winning streak doesn't matter strength matters. Code S "strength" >>> ESV "strength" and DongRaeGu had a 7 game win streak in Code S. You obviously don't know how Elo works. How do you judge the "strength" of a tournament? By the "strength" of the participating players. How do you judge the "strength" of a player? By his ELO. How do you calculate the point gain/loss? By the ELO difference of the players. It doesn't matter if a tournament is "stronger" or "weaker", if player A wins vs player B in tournament C, he deserves the same amount of points as if the match was in tournament D. Apart from nerve issues and external factors, players don't play better or worse in different tournaments. Yes, some foreigners have inflated ELO because they rarely ever play against Koreans, but the effect is limited because they play and probably lose against other players that HAVE played against Koreans, so the effect is mitigated and over the long term it won't really matter. ELO is a model, not a perfect representation of reality. Without every player constantly playing against every other player, it's impossible to create a 100% accurate description of reality. On March 29 2012 21:54 LunaSea wrote: Well some people seem to insist on the fact that he just beat DRG 2-0 in Code S Group A and therefore that he must be better ... that's like saying that Jjakji should be #1 and Taeja #2 because Jjakji 2-1'd Taeja. And your right that's not how Elo works. TaeJa has played 4 games against Jjakji in the ESV grand prix, so it's 5:2 now in favour of TaeJa, which is ok in the model of ELO as it just describes probability to win. A player with higher ELO has a better chance to win against someone with lower ELO, it doesn't mean he will win every game. That TaeJa won against DRG just means that he is capable of it, not that he is "better" than DRG. Without a higher amount of games, there is no clear indication either way. | ||
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Bamm
Sweden279 Posts
 GLGL! | ||
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LunaSea
Luxembourg369 Posts
On March 29 2012 21:56 Morfildur wrote: How do you judge the "strength" of a tournament? By the "strength" of the participating players. How do you judge the "strength" of a player? By his ELO. How do you calculate the point gain/loss? By the ELO difference of the players. It doesn't matter if a tournament is "stronger" or "weaker", if player A wins vs player B in tournament C, he deserves the same amount of points as if the match was in tournament D. Apart from nerve issues and external factors, players don't play better or worse in different tournaments. Yes, some foreigners have inflated ELO because they rarely ever play against Koreans, but the effect is limited because they play and probably lose against other players that HAVE played against Koreans, so the effect is mitigated and over the long term it won't really matter. ELO is a model, not a perfect representation of reality. Without every player constantly playing against every other player, it's impossible to create a 100% accurate description of reality. TaeJa has played 4 games against Jjakji in the ESV grand prix, so it's 5:2 now in favour of TaeJa, which is ok in the model of ELO as it just describes probability to win. A player with higher ELO has a better chance to win against someone with lower ELO, it doesn't mean he will win every game. That TaeJa won against DRG just means that he is capable of it, not that he is "better" than DRG. Without a higher amount of games, there is no clear indication either way. What I meant by : "Code S "strength" >>> ESV "strength" " is that the average Elo of a player in Code S is a lot higher than the average Elo of the ESV players. | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
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pred470r
Bulgaria3265 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
grtz. | ||
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TeMiL
Peru545 Posts
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ydeer1993
United Kingdom569 Posts
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SC2Tips
United States115 Posts
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htn2481
Vietnam117 Posts
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On March 29 2012 15:02 sVnteen wrote: look this is exactly why NA doesn't produce any good players it's just because liquid and EG are so stupid and ratch buy koreans than invest into any talent whatsoever... even those teams started to believe that NA is naturally untalented - just stupid and then look at mouz/empire who are both doing great with only having 1 korean between both of them and that korean has been living in america for a long time and didn't come to them from the korean server so he was basically a "foreign talent" eventhough he wasn't a foreigner empire picked up beasty and happy from ladder / online trouneys and welmu too (eventhough he left again but well...) then they have aristeo who is also a local talent mouz too they could have picked up a korean and go for some easy wins like liquid and EG but they decided to pick up biGs and heromarine - 2 EU talents and it is working out for them (beating both liquid and EG multiple times) ...What? EG has supported a ton of NA players (Machine, incontrol, idra, was supporting Axslav, LZgamer, etc.) and Liquid has supported European players like Jinro, TLO, etc, both of them have invested into talent, but the Koreans are just better buys. They're better players, period. They deserve the spots on EG and TL more than NA/EU players; they practice more, are better, have more drive, etc. | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On March 29 2012 21:56 Morfildur wrote: How do you judge the "strength" of a tournament? By the "strength" of the participating players. How do you judge the "strength" of a player? By his ELO. How do you calculate the point gain/loss? By the ELO difference of the players. It doesn't matter if a tournament is "stronger" or "weaker", if player A wins vs player B in tournament C, he deserves the same amount of points as if the match was in tournament D. Apart from nerve issues and external factors, players don't play better or worse in different tournaments. Yes, some foreigners have inflated ELO because they rarely ever play against Koreans, but the effect is limited because they play and probably lose against other players that HAVE played against Koreans, so the effect is mitigated and over the long term it won't really matter. ELO is a model, not a perfect representation of reality. Without every player constantly playing against every other player, it's impossible to create a 100% accurate description of reality. TaeJa has played 4 games against Jjakji in the ESV grand prix, so it's 5:2 now in favour of TaeJa, which is ok in the model of ELO as it just describes probability to win. A player with higher ELO has a better chance to win against someone with lower ELO, it doesn't mean he will win every game. That TaeJa won against DRG just means that he is capable of it, not that he is "better" than DRG. Without a higher amount of games, there is no clear indication either way. Don't forget that it might also be interesting to look at the peaks of the players. This really shows who was constant and who maybe got lucky. | ||
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Ckalvin
Australia150 Posts
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