On March 16 2012 05:07 ronpaul012 wrote: I could see some casters pulling it off, but wolf isn't one of them. Up to Gom really. I think the poll should be "should we be able to tell Gom whether or not wolf should have to shave his beard every monrning."
Seeing as how we shouldn't have any influence in a different company's policies, I think a more appropriate poll would be:
"If you were running a professional business, what would your policy on shaving be?
On March 16 2012 07:39 Komentaja wrote: You can tell this is a solid thread by the fact that half of the people are extending quotes from the greatest minds the world has ever known and the other half is decrying them for not being apathetic about the subject.
I think it's needlessly restrictive on Wolf for Gom to forbid beards, explicitly or implicitly (as that is what is implied). It would only add to his "foreigner" look and appeal.
"Professionalism" is a religion in itself!
Pretty sure professionalism is a standard of expectations in both body language, appearance, presentation set by the organization that hired you. It's asked to abide to these sub-social norms for the same of maintaining uniformity and image of the company or place of business.
Religion is a big stretch even if you draw easy common points.
Well:
Perhaps religion is a bit of a stretch. However, it applies at least to the way people are forced to look (consider Islamic and Jewish beards and niqabs and such). There is no logical reason for these restrictions on appearance but common convention, just like how religions operate.
Is a suit more hygienic than a set of other clothes?
They're not forced to dress that way, they choose to dress that way because they practice and rely heavily on their religion. It's a choice for the sake of their faith. If they didn't like it, they can stop practicing. Although in the end, you can say the same about employment and the view of professionalism, it totally defeats your skewed view.
The logical reasoning is that image is important both on the outside and inside. You'd have a stronger argument that it is emotional work on top of physical work that makes shaving not a worthwhile thing. That's a theory that's been long-established and really makes your point a lot more substantial.
I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Now that Torte is in here I don't have much to say, he says everything I wanted to say.
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
Someone's butthurt cuz they can't grow their beard out T_T
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
I hope not.
How is this overly strict? In what way does it harshly impede one's ability to express themselves? Give me a break, they asked a maintaining of what they view is a professional look and Wolf abides because he prefers his job over his facial hair.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a "ban" on Wolf's beard. They put a no-smoking sign up but replaced the cigarette with the image of Wolf's beard. They even banned mustaches to prevent any confusion on which parts of his face can he grow facial hair.
What if they ban monobrows, or nose hairs! WHAT THEN! WHERE DOES IT STOP?
The TLO thing is just you trying way too hard to be emotionally distraught about the whole thing.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
ahaha wow settle down it's all just a joke. need less people like this IMO
Just to make it clear for everyone, Wolf only stated he hates shaving in the morning, that is all. So people, stop blaming GOM or other things for no reason!
On March 16 2012 03:11 Ectrid wrote: Here you got a picture!
On March 16 2012 02:14 Promethelax wrote:
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
But, as Voltaire says, flies are born to be eaten by spiders and men are born to be consumed by sorrow. And to be a member of a society one must give up freedom. The only way to be truly free of the demands of other people and of society is to exist without any other people, to live as either a god or a beast.
In the words of Aristotle "he who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god: he is no part of a state. A social instinct is implanted in all men by nature, and yet he who first founded the state was the greatest of benefactors."
So yes, I can see, I am not blind and though I disagree with what you say I believe in your right to say it.
Oh yeah you gotta love freedom of speech! I really have to say, i am quite surprised by your answer! Thanks for this!
But don't you think, that we now live in a connected world, where we have the communication capabilities, the technology and the production capacity's, to feed every human, to give every human a home and a place and to maintain a certain degree of living standard?
Why can't we work for us? Instead we work for companies, private people or the government! The rich only get richer and those with power only gain more power! While for the most people it gets harder every day... All i want to say is, we should begin to work for ourselves! Work as and for our species.
I think we can only have a better world, if society wants to change the system. And most important, people need to understand this concept. Don't call it Socialism, Capitalism or Marxism... That's pigeonhole thinking.
We fulfill the requirements for a change, only the chains of our minds are holding us back.
Why is this thread btw still running? lol I really think this thread shows the desire of many for a better world.
Why are you surprised by this answer? What other answer could I have given? You are most welcome though.
We do indeed live in such a world. A world where, if there was no human corruption, everyone would be fed and healthy. Everyone would have a roof over their head and the world would be even more over populated, if we did that we would destroy the world we live in even faster. We, in the so called first world, are already using natural resources faster than they can be created and reproducing too fast. Adding more people to this will not help humanity as a whole.
The problem is that each person works for themselves, we cannot work for us because we are not a unity. To work for ourselves, for our species, we would have to intentionally kill off many other members of our species, we have over populated the world and there are no natural predators left to us. We are the most dangerous game and the most dangerous prey.
I don't see how we can have a better world, until we do work as a society to reduce our ease of life and make our species a part of the world instead of acting against it. The concept needs a name for people to understand it, humans define everything within their language so what shall we call it if not those? Societalism? Populism? We must pigeon hole the idea so that a person coming from the outside can understand it quickly and at a glance.
How in the world is this thread showing that desire? It was started to talk about one man's beard and whether or not he has the right to have it in a public area while being employed by a private organization. This thread is silly.
Well i was just surprised by such an intelligent and well thought response. That's all and by no means i think my opinion is the pure and only truth, the more i know, the less i really know... or how do you say? ^^
Absolutely, overpopulation is a problem. But you are not right! Because you don't have to kill people to reduce the world's population, if every couple just have 2 children, the population wouldn't grow anymore. So set a limit of 2 and you will have decrease of population until you have a healthy count of population. I was even reading something last time, that our blue planet could carry 10-20 Billion people... but i don't think that is healthy. 1 to max 5 billion should be ok. but i'm no expert and this is just theory crafting...
And your point on we are not a unity, i agree, but we will be, we are getting as connected as we can be, thanks to the Internet and modern communication systems and this trend will rapidly grow. When we reach the point of total connection and communication, society and humanity will perhaps evolve into one big organism. like a bot-net or a world lan. (not like the internet, way more extreme and extensive).
Yeah perhaps you need a good word, but this will only works if humanity evolves into it by itself and understands it by itself. it has to be a movement and revolution/evolution.
Haha, yes i understand you completely, this thread is silly, but aren't you a little bit surprised about the length of this thread? People are debating even about a little and silly thing like this with passion, because it is important for everyone. I think you can clearly see these two sides of the coin. Between being a customized worker and citizen, and a natural human.
The average shave lasts 3.5 minutes. It is also estimated that a man will shave at least 20,000 times in his lifetime. This means you spend almost about 50 days in your life only shaving... (correct me if i am mistaken, i suck so hard at math)
Is this really worth the time? I don't think it is... just imagine what you could do with these 50 days and that is my point, shaving is just a tiny little small evil you have to endure. I'm tired, read ya.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
McDonalds & Burger King have that policy in every country.
I work in an office and have a beard, no one is EVER going to fire me because of that.
There are people in there with even fuller beards than me, I keep my trimmed so it doesn't get too "grizzly adams".
Forcing some to shave at Burger King or something, sure. No one wants beard hair in their whoppers. But in a professional environment such as an office or even a sports / esports caster you should be able to do what you want.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
McDonalds & Burger King have that policy in every country.
Well their fast food chains so only high school kids work there anyway right? They're facial hair is hilariously bad. =P
This is a social condition imo. Old employers stick to old ways, and in the old days being able to shave was a sign of class. Especially a clean shave, because not everyone could afford that. A beard used to be completely synonymous with poor hygiene or lack of personal care.
I work in a job that doesn't concern itself with facial hair, normal hair, gender, height, weight, tattoos, etc because in the real world these are only a cover to a book which has important, useful and creative content that can be read.
EPT
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