So basically Wolf just stated live on the GSL, that he hates to shave his beard every morning! So are we able as a community to overcome these social conditions or how ever you will call it? I wouldn't mind if he doesn't do it anymore, i even think it would look great on him!
What do you think? Can we potentially free Wolf from this social condition? Or is shaving your beard as a man important and sensible?
Tell us your opinion!
Poll: Should Wolf shave his beard?
No, he should not! (1065)
65%
Yes, he should! (563)
35%
1628 total votes
Your vote: Should Wolf shave his beard?
(Vote): Yes, he should! (Vote): No, he should not!
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does facial hair make you less professional? Unless he leaves it looking tangled up and greasy like a hobo I see no way that having some facial hair makes you a less professional person.
This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does facial hair make you less professional? Unless he leaves it looking tangled up and greasy like a hobo I see no way that having some facial hair makes you a less professional person.
Only if you can pull the facial hair off... TLO needs to shave, badly
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
So you are 100% sure about GOM having a policy for beards?
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
So you are 100% sure about GOM having a policy for beards?
well if GOM dont have a policy then this thread is even more worthless, since its then just his choice
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does facial hair make you less professional? Unless he leaves it looking tangled up and greasy like a hobo I see no way that having some facial hair makes you a less professional person.
Only if you can pull the facial hair off... TLO needs to shave, badly
Hey, TLO has a good system and motivation when it comes to trimming/shaving. I like the initiative.
As for Wolf, when you are on the air it's part of the deal to do makeup and all that jazz.
On March 15 2012 20:22 Wolf wrote: No fan club but this?.. What
wft? did you guys dont have other problems in your life than the beard of a other man? What must happen that you suddenly think: Hey lets make a thread about the beard of a caster of a sc2 tournament?
For anyone that works anywhere semi-decent, do you expect to come to work looking unshaven? The answer is no. You have to look professional. Surely this OP was started by a young person unaware of such standard etiquette..
Absolutely fabolous, this definitely needs a thread: Hey gaiz, so I herd something and now I make a thred for attention without any background information.
Background information: You don't wear a beard in many Asian countries if you don't want to make a statement. India/Indonesia and moustaches are a different matter. It is not considered professional for a public person to wear a beard.
Of course, he shouldn't. Every caster should be free to dress and groom as they wish, as long as they are comfortable.
But I don't think he wants to have beard. He wants to be shaved, groomed etc, but just doesn't enjoy doing this tedious meaningless work by himself every day.
Personally, I recommend him electric shaver, as Khaldor mentioned he uses one too. It does reduce the time and effort significantly and gives very decent results.
Let's just imagine for a second Khaldor casting on the side of a full bearded, hairy Wolf!
i just hope we get some more photo-shopped Wolf-Beard pictures!
UNLEASH THE "WOLF-MAN"!
On March 15 2012 20:56 VoO wrote: Absolutely fabolous, this definitely needs a thread: Hey gaiz, so I herd something and now I make a thred for attention without any background information.
Background information: You don't wear a beard in many Asian countries if you don't want to make a statement. India/Indonesia and moustaches are a different matter. It is not considered professional for a public person to wear a beard.
silly topic to vote on imo, its part of his job - it keeps him looking clean and professional while hes casting, whilst i'm by no means suggesting that he would not maintain a clean beard it is far more likely it came up as a result of the small talk/general banter that casters often have between games and just another topic to gain more viewer interaction specifically through twitter which is ultimately good for the game.
I'm pretty sure gomtv doesn't want it to look like they picked the first homeless guy on the street to cast their tournament worth thousands and thousands of dollars in prize money.
Personally I only shave twice a week so I always have a stubble for about 3 days in a week.
My skin gets too irritated if I shave everyday and I only shave with a electric shaver, havent used a razor since 2006 and never will since it really fucks up my skin.
I cant really imagine shaving everyday for somebody who has sensitive skin.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
Man TLers these days. They think they can just come in here, make a complaint thread, and have things go their way. I guess you don't like going to work on Mondays and Fridays either, you should make a thread about that and tell your company.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
Most companies have dress/grooming codes all employees are expected to follow. Since all employees have contractually agreed to these codes, not following them is breach of contract and cause for termination. (The 911 company I worked for allowed dispatchers to have facial hair, however firefighters/medics could not have anything below the corners of the mouth - mustache only - and it had to be trimmed (nothing longer than ~7-8mm iirc).
Wolf just said he doesn't actually want to have a beard so it's just a matter of being clean shaved (and that seldom looks professional imo).
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
Most companies have dress/grooming codes all employees are expected to follow. Since all employees have contractually agreed to these codes, not following them is breach of contract and cause for termination. (The 911 company I worked for allowed dispatchers to have facial hair, however firefighters/medics could not have anything below the corners of the mouth - mustache only - and it had to be trimmed (nothing longer than ~7-8mm iirc).
Wolf just said he doesn't actually want to have a beard so it's just a matter of being clean shaved (and that seldom looks professional imo).
Well ok.
that stuff just doesnt exist in the UK, unless you are in the army.
Even firefighters are allowed to have a beard up to a certain length.
Regarding working in an office, retail etc there is no such thing.
One good thing about having a beard is that it helps you identify small minded people you don't want to work for very quickly. Some people think getting your work done on time and to spec is not as important as the color of your shirt.
Its like time keeping, identify that the company thinks both statements should be true 1) work 37.5 hours a week 2) working 9-5:30 and you have found a company that doesn't give a shit about its employees.
On March 15 2012 21:12 Mementoss wrote: I'm pretty sure gomtv doesn't want it to look like they picked the first homeless guy on the street to cast their tournament worth thousands and thousands of dollars in prize money.
I know many people with beards that don't look homeless... By that logic they shouldn't have hired Khaldor because some people might think he's a neo-nazi due to his shaved head.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
ummmmm. you clearly have no idea what your talking about. almost every job that involves contact with customers has an attached dress code, and that dress code almost always include rules on grooming. its often just 'if you have a beard it must be neat', but it can easily be 'you must be clean shaven'. and im talking about in the uk here. i know because its on the wall of the staff room where i work, and i work for tescos, which is the biggest private sector employer in the uk
I would like the casters to look presentable. I have nothing against shaved, but I might have against unshaved (don't know how he looks with a beard). So better stick to what it works.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
Great, so you acknowledge the fact that "being professional" is highly relative, so why should you abide arbitrary rules that make you more "professional". Why should we abide arbitrary behaviorial rules anyways.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
Great, so you acknowledge the fact that "being professional" is highly relative, so why should you abide arbitrary rules that make you more "professional". Why should we abide arbitrary behaviorial rules anyways.
Because the people paying you care. Lots of places require you to shave. It's not a big deal really.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
The point of the matter is you still have to groom it. I have to shave everyday or else I'll have a beard before you know it. Nothing wrong with having one (most women I know cannot stand it). If I go down that road I constantly have to do maintenance to it for hygienic and work purposes especially in Wolf's case.
It applies to everything. Not too long ago a guy wrote a blog about his job in security job on this very website. He wanted to live a minimalist life and decided he wanted to see how long he could grow out his beard. His employer took notice and told him they would terminate him unless he trimmed it.
On March 15 2012 21:40 Haydin wrote: Also wolf don't whine about shaving being the worst part about being a dude ladies have it way worse.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
Great, so you acknowledge the fact that "being professional" is highly relative, so why should you abide arbitrary rules that make you more "professional". Why should we abide arbitrary behaviorial rules anyways.
Because the people paying you care. Lots of places require you to shave. It's not a big deal really.
It's also worth noting that Wolf does have a job that entails face time on a camera, right? So that probably factors into it more than if your job was to like work at a computer or something.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
Great, so you acknowledge the fact that "being professional" is highly relative, so why should you abide arbitrary rules that make you more "professional". Why should we abide arbitrary behaviorial rules anyways.
Because the people paying you care. Lots of places require you to shave. It's not a big deal really.
Just because someone pays you for doing your job doesn't mean he should get to decide personal stuff for you. You can argue that this is "how it works" but you have to realize that with this statement you are legitimizing this form of power. Is it a good thing? Does it make any sense? If I have bad skin and end up cutting myself every morning while shaving is it rational to still do it? I don't care if Wolf grows a beard or not but I care about this kind of repulsive way of thinking.
Wolf has the freedom not to shave, Gom has the freedom to fire him for it. This is standard business practice in so, so many fields. Companies care about how you represent them, as they have every right to.
I remember when a swedish newscaster had a beard & people called in and were like "What the hell is that? make him shave that beard" to the place he was working at & like 30min later when he did the news again he'd shaved his beard.. it made all this big fuss but in the end the guy AND the company wished they hadn't caved to the people calling in because it's just a beard.. it's really none of their business if he has a beard or not..
As far as what I think about forums in general, it's a waste of time because either wolf will have a beard or he won't based on personal preferences. If gom doesn't want him to have one & he does he can find a new job or shave in order to keep the one he has. /thread.
Generally, I like to think that people should be able to do what they like with their hair, facial or non-, either way. However, I can also see how his job in particular, being televised and all, could be affected by his physical appearance in today's society.
Well, i think we all can agree, that as long as you have a clean beard, you shouldn't be forced to trim it.
Aren't such little things a sign of real freedom, or do we only have the freedom, we are entitled? Same with everything else, are we only as free as they let us? The majority of our species has grown up, we don't need rules like this anymore! Everyone should be able to do WHATEVER he likes, as long as you don't hurt anyone.
Stop living like a slave, we should embrace our freedom! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
Great, so you acknowledge the fact that "being professional" is highly relative, so why should you abide arbitrary rules that make you more "professional". Why should we abide arbitrary behaviorial rules anyways.
Because the people paying you care. Lots of places require you to shave. It's not a big deal really.
Just because someone pays you for doing your job doesn't mean he should get to decide personal stuff for you. You can argue that this is "how it works" but you have to realize that with this statement you are legitimizing this form of power. Is it a good thing? Does it make any sense? If I have bad skin and end up cutting myself every morning while shaving is it rational to still do it? I don't care if Wolf grows a beard or not but I care about this kind of repulsive way of thinking.
If one has bad skin and cuts oneself every morning shaving, one may consider several logical alternatives: 1) use an electric razor instead of the traditional razborblade+cream 2) renegotiate contract to not include a shaving requirement 3) consider a job that does not require daily face time in front of a broadcast camera whereby one's employer would anticipate cleanshaven face
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
Right, and we're glad for you and all, but the point might be here that such a condition is silly and pointless.
If the aim of requiring shaved employees to is to look professional, are they implying that there is no way to look professional with facial hair?
If it is possible to be professional with facial hair, then why the restrictions?
I believe this is the train of though people are going with here. Also, to call this absurd is maybe a bit dramatic. I don't think anyone in this thread loses sleep over Wolf's beard.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
Great, so you acknowledge the fact that "being professional" is highly relative, so why should you abide arbitrary rules that make you more "professional". Why should we abide arbitrary behaviorial rules anyways.
Because the people paying you care. Lots of places require you to shave. It's not a big deal really.
Actually it IS a big deal if like me you have had a beard for 10 years. Moreover if i do shave regularly my skin just melts, i need to shave twice a working day to keep the shadow away ... so how do you work that? By the end of a working day i looked like an alchy.
Besides the fashion for having shaved heads imo is simply peoples reaction to an aggressive society. Having a shaved head can be intimidating and some people do it deliberatley for that effect. Take a baliff for example, i have never met a hippy baliff.
If you are preparing food and dealing with food then there are real issues.
Is this gonna be the rage thread of the week? Are people gonna start threatening to not watch GSL because they make their casters follow a certain dress code and be clean shaven? I mean really, have none of you people complaining about this had jobs before? I personally don't think jobs should be able to dictate things like how cleanly shaved you must be (as long as it fits you) and especially not piercings/tattoos, but this is really not the place to start this.
It's a job. There are certain things you have to do when you're in a professional setting. Not looking like a bum is one of them. I'm sure most people with jobs will tell you they hate shaving every morning, but they all understand it's part of the territory as I'm sure Wolf does.
I think you took this out of context. Although he hates doing I don't think he was saying that he wishes GOM wouldn't tell him to shave. In fact I doubt GOM even told him to shave, it's just one of those understood, unspoken things that's part of the job.
I doubt it is that much of an issue for him haha. Plus, a shaved face makes a man more presentable, and look more professional in most circumstances. :D
Unfortunately in todays society if you are streaming to a larger crowd of people and also representing not only yourself but another organization, one should take the time to make oneself presentable.
Basic ettique 101 no beards are allowed unless your really high up in an organization and spend twice as long grooming your beard as you do shaving =D
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does facial hair make you less professional? Unless he leaves it looking tangled up and greasy like a hobo I see no way that having some facial hair makes you a less professional person.
Have a look at TotalBiscuit, I was like "WTF". (in a good way)
On March 16 2012 00:08 Sanasante wrote: Unfortunately in todays society if you are streaming to a larger crowd of people and also representing not only yourself but another organization, one should take the time to make oneself presentable.
Basic ettique 101 no beards are allowed unless your really high up in an organization and spend twice as long grooming your beard as you do shaving =D
It doesn't take that long to groom one's beard and even if it does you can do it half as often than if you want to be clean shaved, so that counteracts that argument. And I don't really understand how a groomed beard make you look any less presentable.
On March 16 2012 00:09 Torte de Lini wrote: God Forbid he has to look appropriate ._.
Yeah all bearded men in the world are so darn inappropriate.
It`s up to GSL in my opinon. If they want their casters to look professtional then who cares. Besides I dont think that his beard would look good for a week or so.
Isn't it disrespectful or a social stigma to have a beard in Korean society? Im not sure where I heard that or if its true, however. Assuming Wolf is still in Korea, that could be a major influence on his shaving habits.
On March 16 2012 00:19 ArrozConLeche wrote: why does this thread give me the same feeling i had when people msged EG's sponsors due to some silly stuff that happened with Orb?
It has nothing to do with that. All the OP commented on was the fact that Wolf hinted at the maintenance on his beard which is true for anyone. If you decide to grow one you constantly have to manage it. ._.
I see a lot of people voting based on whether or not the beard would look good on him, and I don't think this is the issue here. The issue is whether or not it is right for Gom to force him to be clean shaven on camera. While it is within their rights to do so, I don't think it should be. Ethically it doesn't make sense for employers to be able to force people to have their beard/hair/etc. in a certain way. It's the same as how it used to be unacceptable for men to have long hair at "professional" jobs. I understand that they want their employees to look "professional", but what it really comes down to is an attempt to maintain the status quo of social norms. Who is anyone to say that having a beard or long hair is "unprofessional"? The focus should be on how the people conduct themselves, and as long as it is reasonable they should be allowed to groom themselves as they like. Obviously having a big scraggly-hobo-looking beard would not present an image that they care, but if a beard or hair is well maintained then there is no reason why a person shouldn't be allowed to have it.
I don't like shaving my beard either but it looks retarded if I don't so I'm going to shave it if I'm going to go somewhere relatively important. Isn't that common sense?
That's like saying "he shouldn't be forced to shower" - And of course he isn't but others might appreciate that.
What's the point of this thread again? In my opinion it's completely ridiculous.
On March 16 2012 00:19 ArrozConLeche wrote: why does this thread give me the same feeling i had when people msged EG's sponsors due to some silly stuff that happened with Orb?
Well if some r tard contacts gom and petitions them then you have a point. but whilst its bored pepel discussing something during the day there is no harm.
Besides im quite shocked at the anti beard sentiments. Be a MAN have a beard ... contrary to common beliefs girls actually do like them - or at least me so i have no problems (Guess what having a beard doesnt really change anything :o ).
On March 16 2012 01:05 Shikyo wrote: How's this worth a thread?
I don't like shaving my beard either but it looks retarded if I don't so I'm going to shave it if I'm going to go somewhere relatively important. Isn't that common sense?
That's like saying "he shouldn't be forced to shower" - And of course he isn't but others might appreciate that.
What's the point of this thread again? In my opinion it's completely ridiculous.
Eh, having a beard and not showering are a horrible analogy... Some looks better with beards than without, maybe people would appreciate them looking the best that they could, who are you to say? And it's not common sense to shave "just because."
On March 16 2012 01:05 Shikyo wrote: How's this worth a thread?
I don't like shaving my beard either but it looks retarded if I don't so I'm going to shave it if I'm going to go somewhere relatively important. Isn't that common sense?
That's like saying "he shouldn't be forced to shower" - And of course he isn't but others might appreciate that.
What's the point of this thread again? In my opinion it's completely ridiculous.
Eh, having a beard and not showering are a horrible analogy... Some looks better with beards than without, maybe people would appreciate them looking the best that they could, who are you to say?
I wouldn't mind if he stopped showering. He has to cast solo then, though.
On March 16 2012 00:54 SadMachine wrote: I see a lot of people voting based on whether or not the beard would look good on him, and I don't think this is the issue here. The issue is whether or not it is right for Gom to force him to be clean shaven on camera. While it is within their rights to do so, I don't think it should be. Ethically it doesn't make sense for employers to be able to force people to have their beard/hair/etc. in a certain way. It's the same as how it used to be unacceptable for men to have long hair at "professional" jobs. I understand that they want their employees to look "professional", but what it really comes down to is an attempt to maintain the status quo of social norms. Who is anyone to say that having a beard or long hair is "unprofessional"? The focus should be on how the people conduct themselves, and as long as it is reasonable they should be allowed to groom themselves as they like. Obviously having a big scraggly-hobo-looking beard would not present an image that they care, but if a beard or hair is well maintained then there is no reason why a person shouldn't be allowed to have it.
Tell that to everyone in show business. Tell me how it works out for you.
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
How does having a beard make anyone less professional?
If an employer doesnt want me to have my beard and discriminates against me for it i take the fucker to court.
It does for some people obviously. Being professional or not, everything is a matter of opinion.
Great, so you acknowledge the fact that "being professional" is highly relative, so why should you abide arbitrary rules that make you more "professional". Why should we abide arbitrary behaviorial rules anyways.
Because the people paying you care. Lots of places require you to shave. It's not a big deal really.
Just because someone pays you for doing your job doesn't mean he should get to decide personal stuff for you. You can argue that this is "how it works" but you have to realize that with this statement you are legitimizing this form of power. Is it a good thing? Does it make any sense? If I have bad skin and end up cutting myself every morning while shaving is it rational to still do it? I don't care if Wolf grows a beard or not but I care about this kind of repulsive way of thinking.
It's not personal if you are on camera representing the company you work for. Is it within the power of the individual to decide how he should appear while representing the company or is it in the company's power?
Hey guys, he works on TV. He is entitled to a certain look decided by his employeur. GomTV says no beard, then it's no beard. If you want to work in short, have a beard and never wear socks, do like me : work from your home.
As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
i dont think he was trying to imply that he was forced to shave every morning. however i do think he's saying something every man understands: shaving every morning is kinda annoying
On March 15 2012 20:05 Sporadic44 wrote: I think in regards to being professional, he can deal with shaving his beard for work. I doubt he loses sleep over shaving
He very much loses sleep over shaving! I bet he has to wake up 10-15 minutes earlier than had he not shaved
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
wiat you actually think this is a serious topic that needs attention?
This thread. This thread is the entire reason why a lot of people really hate the SC2 community. Please for the love of god stop doing these things that cause people headaches due to the sheer banality of it all.
As long one's appearance is tidy I believe things like hair length and facial hair should be up to the individual and in no way denotes "professionalism." Just keep it neat and clean.
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Wait, do we even know if GSL makes him do it? Maybe he does it every morning on his own, but he really hates doing it. You know, like I make myself go to class every morning, even though I hate learning about World Literature and Modern American Literature. Get it?
Even if is forced to do so by GSL, it's a part of their dress code. Holy shit, let's make a thread on TL about it. Because that'll make a Korean company on the other side of the world really change their legitimate dress code.
I swear, sometimes I think the SC2/reddit community thinks they have waaaayyyyy too much power. This latest Orb situation didn't help matters at all.
On March 16 2012 00:08 Sanasante wrote: Unfortunately in todays society if you are streaming to a larger crowd of people and also representing not only yourself but another organization, one should take the time to make oneself presentable.
Basic ettique 101 no beards are allowed unless your really high up in an organization and spend twice as long grooming your beard as you do shaving =D
It doesn't take that long to groom one's beard and even if it does you can do it half as often than if you want to be clean shaved, so that counteracts that argument. And I don't really understand how a groomed beard make you look any less presentable.
On March 16 2012 00:09 Torte de Lini wrote: God Forbid he has to look appropriate ._.
Yeah all bearded men in the world are so darn inappropriate.
Where did I say that? GSL just views being shaved as being appropriate. Are you disgruntled because an employer is enforcing appearance on an employee (lol)
You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Professionalism is dictated by norms, standards and cultural views.
You just proved so by showing that Sweden is more flexible with professionalism by allowing beards and stubble.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Professionalism is dictated by norms, standards and cultural views.
You just proved so by showing that Sweden is more flexible with professionalism by allowing beards and stubble.
The point is rather that disallowing beards is pure fundamentalism.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Professionalism is dictated by norms, standards and cultural views.
You just proved so by showing that Sweden is more flexible with professionalism by allowing beards and stubble.
The point is rather that disallowing beards is pure fundamentalism.
You're aware most of South Korea is non religious, right?
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Professionalism is dictated by norms, standards and cultural views.
You just proved so by showing that Sweden is more flexible with professionalism by allowing beards and stubble.
The point is rather that disallowing beards is pure fundamentalism.
I can tell from your first-hand experience .________.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Professionalism is dictated by norms, standards and cultural views.
You just proved so by showing that Sweden is more flexible with professionalism by allowing beards and stubble.
The point is rather that disallowing beards is pure fundamentalism.
You're aware most of South Korea is non religious, right?
I wouldn't say most of South Korea is non religious as over half the population is religious in some manner with Christianity and Buddhism being the two largest ones. However with almost half the population being non religious and no state-religion I doubt religion has much or any sway over anything, beard growing policies included ^^
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Professionalism is dictated by norms, standards and cultural views.
You just proved so by showing that Sweden is more flexible with professionalism by allowing beards and stubble.
The point is rather that disallowing beards is pure fundamentalism.
You're aware most of South Korea is non religious, right?
I was addressing the views on beards in this thread. What SK or GOM thinks isn't really relevant since this thread isn't actually based on anything and is pretty much a joke.
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
edit: by the way, it's pretty interesting, that a thread like this gets so long and takes so much time. really weird...
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
But, as Voltaire says, flies are born to be eaten by spiders and men are born to be consumed by sorrow. And to be a member of a society one must give up freedom. The only way to be truly free of the demands of other people and of society is to exist without any other people, to live as either a god or a beast.
In the words of Aristotle "he who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god: he is no part of a state. A social instinct is implanted in all men by nature, and yet he who first founded the state was the greatest of benefactors."
So yes, I can see, I am not blind and though I disagree with what you say I believe in your right to say it.
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
edit: by the way, it's pretty interesting, that a thread like this gets so long and takes so much time. really weird...
Wow that picture, Wolf looks like completely different persons ^^
That's a pretty handsome nerd when he has the beard. It would be a shame if they made him shave it but I suppose for professionalism it is not unreasonable to ask him to get rid of it.
Shaving is a pain in the ass, i have a responsible office job, yet i try to skip shaving as much as possible (once every 2days, sometimes skip an extra day lol).
we have to shave our beards to bag groceries in the united states so its only fair he has to shave his beard when he broadcasts to thousands of people. plus beards make you look homeless.
On March 16 2012 03:35 Fubi wrote: In terms of professionalism, shaving is a reasonable thing to ask.
I do however think that forcing them to wear thos tux and red ties is a bit over the top.
I think the opposite stands true. Requiring your casters to be clearly shaven is a bit over the top, while requiring them to wear a color-matched ensemble is perfectly reasonable. Dem americans seem to think of the jacket as some kind of impossibly formal clothing article reserved for The President, meh!
On March 16 2012 03:41 Terranist wrote: we have to shave our beards to bag groceries in the united states so its only fair he has to shave his beard when he broadcasts to thousands of people. plus beards make you look homeless.
On March 16 2012 03:53 Lorch wrote: How about we let wolf not shave it for a month and then vote again? I'm sure as hell in favor of him letting it grow a bit.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
What the hell was with the "Damn christians." comment?
That's both needlessly inflammatory and completely irrelevant...
On March 16 2012 03:11 Ectrid wrote: Here you got a picture!
On March 16 2012 02:14 Promethelax wrote:
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
But, as Voltaire says, flies are born to be eaten by spiders and men are born to be consumed by sorrow. And to be a member of a society one must give up freedom. The only way to be truly free of the demands of other people and of society is to exist without any other people, to live as either a god or a beast.
In the words of Aristotle "he who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god: he is no part of a state. A social instinct is implanted in all men by nature, and yet he who first founded the state was the greatest of benefactors."
So yes, I can see, I am not blind and though I disagree with what you say I believe in your right to say it.
Oh yeah you gotta love freedom of speech! I really have to say, i am quite surprised by your answer! Thanks for this!
But don't you think, that we now live in a connected world, where we have the communication capabilities, the technology and the production capacity's, to feed every human, to give every human a home and a place and to maintain a certain degree of living standard?
Why can't we work for us? Instead we work for companies, private people or the government! The rich only get richer and those with power only gain more power! While for the most people it gets harder every day... All i want to say is, we should begin to work for ourselves! Work as and for our species.
I think we can only have a better world, if society wants to change the system. And most important, people need to understand this concept. Don't call it Socialism, Capitalism or Marxism... That's pigeonhole thinking.
We fulfill the requirements for a change, only the chains of our minds are holding us back.
Why is this thread btw still running? lol I really think this thread shows the desire of many for a better world.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Jesus had a beard xD
Quote from the bible ? Jesus is depicted by various artists as having a beard, but that doesn't mean anything... When it comes to religion, artists are more often wrong than right.
all this ridiculous chatter, we don't even know if he "has" to for work. that's just an assumption. Maybe he "has" to because he doesn't like how he looks with a beard? Maybe he "has" to because he's got a nagging G/F? I don't recall him saying GOMTV forces him to shave.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
Jesus had a beard xD
Quote from the bible ? Jesus is depicted by various artists as having a beard, but that doesn't mean anything... When it comes to religion, artists are more often wrong than right.
Jesus was a Jewish male living in the Middle East 2000 years ago. He had a beard. The only males that didn't have beards in that area at that time were Romans.
On March 16 2012 03:11 Ectrid wrote: Here you got a picture!
On March 16 2012 02:14 Promethelax wrote:
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
But, as Voltaire says, flies are born to be eaten by spiders and men are born to be consumed by sorrow. And to be a member of a society one must give up freedom. The only way to be truly free of the demands of other people and of society is to exist without any other people, to live as either a god or a beast.
In the words of Aristotle "he who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god: he is no part of a state. A social instinct is implanted in all men by nature, and yet he who first founded the state was the greatest of benefactors."
So yes, I can see, I am not blind and though I disagree with what you say I believe in your right to say it.
Oh yeah you gotta love freedom of speech! I really have to say, i am quite surprised by your answer! Thanks for this!
But don't you think, that we now live in a connected world, where we have the communication capabilities, the technology and the production capacity's, to feed every human, to give every human a home and a place and to maintain a certain degree of living standard?
Why can't we work for us? Instead we work for companies, private people or the government! The rich only get richer and those with power only gain more power! While for the most people it gets harder every day... All i want to say is, we should begin to work for ourselves! Work as and for our species.
I think we can only have a better world, if society wants to change the system. And most important, people need to understand this concept. Don't call it Socialism, Capitalism or Marxism... That's pigeonhole thinking.
We fulfill the requirements for a change, only the chains of our minds are holding us back.
Why is this thread btw still running? lol I really think this thread shows the desire of many for a better world.
Why are you surprised by this answer? What other answer could I have given? You are most welcome though.
We do indeed live in such a world. A world where, if there was no human corruption, everyone would be fed and healthy. Everyone would have a roof over their head and the world would be even more over populated, if we did that we would destroy the world we live in even faster. We, in the so called first world, are already using natural resources faster than they can be created and reproducing too fast. Adding more people to this will not help humanity as a whole.
The problem is that each person works for themselves, we cannot work for us because we are not a unity. To work for ourselves, for our species, we would have to intentionally kill off many other members of our species, we have over populated the world and there are no natural predators left to us. We are the most dangerous game and the most dangerous prey.
I don't see how we can have a better world, until we do work as a society to reduce our ease of life and make our species a part of the world instead of acting against it. The concept needs a name for people to understand it, humans define everything within their language so what shall we call it if not those? Societalism? Populism? We must pigeon hole the idea so that a person coming from the outside can understand it quickly and at a glance.
How in the world is this thread showing that desire? It was started to talk about one man's beard and whether or not he has the right to have it in a public area while being employed by a private organization. This thread is silly.
On March 16 2012 01:59 MaV_gGSC wrote: He needs to, for the sake of professionalism
Who decides that having a beard is unprofessional and not having one is professional? These are social biases that are absurd and need to eradicated.
Just to elaborate a bit...
In many industries, properly maintained facial hair is allowed, while only out-of-control facial hair (or hair, for that matter) is viewed as unprofessional. Dustin Browder and TotalBiscuit are fine, but early CatsPajamas (think back to when he had that scraggly beard) is a no-go. But then again, CatsPajamas ended up maintaining his facial hair in a professional manner (keeping it short), and now I actually think it's completely gone anyway.
But then again, some companies have a policy that the members be completely clean shaven. Sometimes it's for good reasons, and sometimes it's a bit too restrictive for others' tastes. Regardless, if you don't like that policy, don't work there
No, he cannot grow a beard just as women can never leave the kitchen. People need to learn their place in society and stop complaining about oppression and suck it up. You don't have any free will so stop thinking you do goddamit.
On March 16 2012 04:53 Areon wrote: No, he cannot grow a beard just as women can never leave the kitchen. People need to learn their place in society and stop complaining about oppression and suck it up. You don't have any free will so stop thinking you do goddamit.
(/sarcasm)
I get that you're being sarcastic, but I don't really understand why it's warranted o.O How does the (sarcastic) analogy make sense? In all actuality, women can leave the kitchen... however, for some reason (contract, genetics, etc.) Wolf apparently can't grow a proper beard. Right?
9/10 times here in Australia, you're educated saying facial hair has to be non-existent or cleanly styled, at my old work we actually were forced to shave AT WORK if it wasn't appropriate :\
I could see some casters pulling it off, but wolf isn't one of them. Up to Gom really. I think the poll should be "should we be able to tell Gom whether or not wolf should have to shave his beard every monrning."
On March 16 2012 05:02 SiN] wrote: this is really fucking stupid every guy shaves a lot of people dont like doing it it's not your business, either
I don't shave and I didn't shave while I was holding down two jobs at once working 70 hours a week between the two of them and neither job faulted me for having a beard. Sure, its a totally different situation as I am not in a professional field, I just wanted to refute your statement that "every guy shaves"
I'm not quite sure how we got from a non-religious corporation enforcing a moderate, culturally Korean dress code to accusations of religious oppression, fundamentalism, and totalitarianism. I think some people need to get out more.
But yeah, whatever, let Wolf grow a beard. Not that it's any of my business.
On March 16 2012 05:07 ronpaul012 wrote: I could see some casters pulling it off, but wolf isn't one of them. Up to Gom really. I think the poll should be "should we be able to tell Gom whether or not wolf should have to shave his beard every monrning."
Seeing as how we shouldn't have any influence in a different company's policies, I think a more appropriate poll would be:
"If you were running a professional business, what would your policy on shaving be?
What the hell is this? This topic is absolutely pointless, let alone deserving this many pages. A clean shaven look is a requirement in a professional setting. Having grown-out facial hair looks messy and an unkempt appearance.
First you ask people like Katu to stop trolling the stream, then you get backtrace Orb's comments to stop his what-ever-it-was. Now you say beards are ok.
On March 16 2012 02:59 vrok wrote: You couldn't watch a single sportscast in Sweden without looking at quite a few beards and lots of stubble, so the professional/job/whatever angle is pure social bullshit. Damn christians.
What the hell was with the "Damn christians." comment?
That's both needlessly inflammatory and completely irrelevant...
On March 16 2012 01:59 MaV_gGSC wrote: He needs to, for the sake of professionalism
Who decides that having a beard is unprofessional and not having one is professional? These are social biases that are absurd and need to eradicated.
Just to elaborate a bit...
In many industries, properly maintained facial hair is allowed, while only out-of-control facial hair (or hair, for that matter) is viewed as unprofessional. Dustin Browder and TotalBiscuit are fine, but early CatsPajamas (think back to when he had that scraggly beard) is a no-go. But then again, CatsPajamas ended up maintaining his facial hair in a professional manner (keeping it short), and now I actually think it's completely gone anyway.
But then again, some companies have a policy that the members be completely clean shaven. Sometimes it's for good reasons, and sometimes it's a bit too restrictive for others' tastes. Regardless, if you don't like that policy, don't work there
'Not working there' really isn't an alternative in e-sports.
On March 16 2012 00:09 Torte de Lini wrote: God Forbid he has to look appropriate ._.
...
How about...
God forbid he has to do what the employer asks of him for the sake of his employment and how GOMTV wants to portray themselves and their representatives.
Hence appropriate [to the standards or expectations of GOMTV and affiliates].
You can tell this is a solid thread by the fact that half of the people are extending quotes from the greatest minds the world has ever known and the other half is decrying them for not being apathetic about the subject.
I think it's needlessly restrictive on Wolf for Gom to forbid beards, explicitly or implicitly (as that is what is implied). It would only add to his "foreigner" look and appeal.
On March 16 2012 07:39 Komentaja wrote: You can tell this is a solid thread by the fact that half of the people are extending quotes from the greatest minds the world has ever known and the other half is decrying them for not being apathetic about the subject.
I think it's needlessly restrictive on Wolf for Gom to forbid beards, explicitly or implicitly (as that is what is implied). It would only add to his "foreigner" look and appeal.
"Professionalism" is a religion in itself!
Pretty sure professionalism is a standard of expectations in both body language, appearance, presentation set by the organization that hired you. It's asked to abide to these sub-social norms for the same of maintaining uniformity and image of the company or place of business.
Religion is a big stretch even if you draw easy common points.
On March 16 2012 07:39 Komentaja wrote: You can tell this is a solid thread by the fact that half of the people are extending quotes from the greatest minds the world has ever known and the other half is decrying them for not being apathetic about the subject.
I think it's needlessly restrictive on Wolf for Gom to forbid beards, explicitly or implicitly (as that is what is implied). It would only add to his "foreigner" look and appeal.
"Professionalism" is a religion in itself!
Pretty sure professionalism is a standard of expectations in both body language, appearance, presentation set by the organization that hired you. It's asked to abide to these sub-social norms for the same of maintaining uniformity and image of the company or place of business.
Religion is a big stretch even if you draw easy common points.
Well:
Perhaps religion is a bit of a stretch. However, it applies at least to the way people are forced to look (consider Islamic and Jewish beards and niqabs and such). There is no logical reason for these restrictions on appearance but common convention, just like how religions operate.
Is a suit more hygienic than a set of other clothes?
On March 16 2012 05:07 ronpaul012 wrote: I could see some casters pulling it off, but wolf isn't one of them. Up to Gom really. I think the poll should be "should we be able to tell Gom whether or not wolf should have to shave his beard every monrning."
Seeing as how we shouldn't have any influence in a different company's policies, I think a more appropriate poll would be:
"If you were running a professional business, what would your policy on shaving be?
On March 16 2012 07:39 Komentaja wrote: You can tell this is a solid thread by the fact that half of the people are extending quotes from the greatest minds the world has ever known and the other half is decrying them for not being apathetic about the subject.
I think it's needlessly restrictive on Wolf for Gom to forbid beards, explicitly or implicitly (as that is what is implied). It would only add to his "foreigner" look and appeal.
"Professionalism" is a religion in itself!
Pretty sure professionalism is a standard of expectations in both body language, appearance, presentation set by the organization that hired you. It's asked to abide to these sub-social norms for the same of maintaining uniformity and image of the company or place of business.
Religion is a big stretch even if you draw easy common points.
Well:
Perhaps religion is a bit of a stretch. However, it applies at least to the way people are forced to look (consider Islamic and Jewish beards and niqabs and such). There is no logical reason for these restrictions on appearance but common convention, just like how religions operate.
Is a suit more hygienic than a set of other clothes?
They're not forced to dress that way, they choose to dress that way because they practice and rely heavily on their religion. It's a choice for the sake of their faith. If they didn't like it, they can stop practicing. Although in the end, you can say the same about employment and the view of professionalism, it totally defeats your skewed view.
The logical reasoning is that image is important both on the outside and inside. You'd have a stronger argument that it is emotional work on top of physical work that makes shaving not a worthwhile thing. That's a theory that's been long-established and really makes your point a lot more substantial.
I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Now that Torte is in here I don't have much to say, he says everything I wanted to say.
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
Someone's butthurt cuz they can't grow their beard out T_T
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
I hope not.
How is this overly strict? In what way does it harshly impede one's ability to express themselves? Give me a break, they asked a maintaining of what they view is a professional look and Wolf abides because he prefers his job over his facial hair.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a "ban" on Wolf's beard. They put a no-smoking sign up but replaced the cigarette with the image of Wolf's beard. They even banned mustaches to prevent any confusion on which parts of his face can he grow facial hair.
What if they ban monobrows, or nose hairs! WHAT THEN! WHERE DOES IT STOP?
The TLO thing is just you trying way too hard to be emotionally distraught about the whole thing.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
ahaha wow settle down it's all just a joke. need less people like this IMO
Just to make it clear for everyone, Wolf only stated he hates shaving in the morning, that is all. So people, stop blaming GOM or other things for no reason!
On March 16 2012 03:11 Ectrid wrote: Here you got a picture!
On March 16 2012 02:14 Promethelax wrote:
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
But, as Voltaire says, flies are born to be eaten by spiders and men are born to be consumed by sorrow. And to be a member of a society one must give up freedom. The only way to be truly free of the demands of other people and of society is to exist without any other people, to live as either a god or a beast.
In the words of Aristotle "he who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god: he is no part of a state. A social instinct is implanted in all men by nature, and yet he who first founded the state was the greatest of benefactors."
So yes, I can see, I am not blind and though I disagree with what you say I believe in your right to say it.
Oh yeah you gotta love freedom of speech! I really have to say, i am quite surprised by your answer! Thanks for this!
But don't you think, that we now live in a connected world, where we have the communication capabilities, the technology and the production capacity's, to feed every human, to give every human a home and a place and to maintain a certain degree of living standard?
Why can't we work for us? Instead we work for companies, private people or the government! The rich only get richer and those with power only gain more power! While for the most people it gets harder every day... All i want to say is, we should begin to work for ourselves! Work as and for our species.
I think we can only have a better world, if society wants to change the system. And most important, people need to understand this concept. Don't call it Socialism, Capitalism or Marxism... That's pigeonhole thinking.
We fulfill the requirements for a change, only the chains of our minds are holding us back.
Why is this thread btw still running? lol I really think this thread shows the desire of many for a better world.
Why are you surprised by this answer? What other answer could I have given? You are most welcome though.
We do indeed live in such a world. A world where, if there was no human corruption, everyone would be fed and healthy. Everyone would have a roof over their head and the world would be even more over populated, if we did that we would destroy the world we live in even faster. We, in the so called first world, are already using natural resources faster than they can be created and reproducing too fast. Adding more people to this will not help humanity as a whole.
The problem is that each person works for themselves, we cannot work for us because we are not a unity. To work for ourselves, for our species, we would have to intentionally kill off many other members of our species, we have over populated the world and there are no natural predators left to us. We are the most dangerous game and the most dangerous prey.
I don't see how we can have a better world, until we do work as a society to reduce our ease of life and make our species a part of the world instead of acting against it. The concept needs a name for people to understand it, humans define everything within their language so what shall we call it if not those? Societalism? Populism? We must pigeon hole the idea so that a person coming from the outside can understand it quickly and at a glance.
How in the world is this thread showing that desire? It was started to talk about one man's beard and whether or not he has the right to have it in a public area while being employed by a private organization. This thread is silly.
Well i was just surprised by such an intelligent and well thought response. That's all and by no means i think my opinion is the pure and only truth, the more i know, the less i really know... or how do you say? ^^
Absolutely, overpopulation is a problem. But you are not right! Because you don't have to kill people to reduce the world's population, if every couple just have 2 children, the population wouldn't grow anymore. So set a limit of 2 and you will have decrease of population until you have a healthy count of population. I was even reading something last time, that our blue planet could carry 10-20 Billion people... but i don't think that is healthy. 1 to max 5 billion should be ok. but i'm no expert and this is just theory crafting...
And your point on we are not a unity, i agree, but we will be, we are getting as connected as we can be, thanks to the Internet and modern communication systems and this trend will rapidly grow. When we reach the point of total connection and communication, society and humanity will perhaps evolve into one big organism. like a bot-net or a world lan. (not like the internet, way more extreme and extensive).
Yeah perhaps you need a good word, but this will only works if humanity evolves into it by itself and understands it by itself. it has to be a movement and revolution/evolution.
Haha, yes i understand you completely, this thread is silly, but aren't you a little bit surprised about the length of this thread? People are debating even about a little and silly thing like this with passion, because it is important for everyone. I think you can clearly see these two sides of the coin. Between being a customized worker and citizen, and a natural human.
The average shave lasts 3.5 minutes. It is also estimated that a man will shave at least 20,000 times in his lifetime. This means you spend almost about 50 days in your life only shaving... (correct me if i am mistaken, i suck so hard at math)
Is this really worth the time? I don't think it is... just imagine what you could do with these 50 days and that is my point, shaving is just a tiny little small evil you have to endure. I'm tired, read ya.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
McDonalds & Burger King have that policy in every country.
I work in an office and have a beard, no one is EVER going to fire me because of that.
There are people in there with even fuller beards than me, I keep my trimmed so it doesn't get too "grizzly adams".
Forcing some to shave at Burger King or something, sure. No one wants beard hair in their whoppers. But in a professional environment such as an office or even a sports / esports caster you should be able to do what you want.
On March 15 2012 20:14 CaptainCrush wrote: This is one of the more absurd threads I have ever seen on TL... and that's saying something. Honestly, grow up children, this is very standard in the real world. If your employer doesnt want you to have a beard, then you dont have one. There is no "social condition", you either shave it or find a new job, end of story. I dont like shaving every day either, but you know what? I do it anyways cause it gets me a paycheck....
hahah wow so in the US an employer can fire you for growing a beard? I can just imagine a company trying to impose that here lol. good stuff xD
McDonalds & Burger King have that policy in every country.
Well their fast food chains so only high school kids work there anyway right? They're facial hair is hilariously bad. =P
This is a social condition imo. Old employers stick to old ways, and in the old days being able to shave was a sign of class. Especially a clean shave, because not everyone could afford that. A beard used to be completely synonymous with poor hygiene or lack of personal care.
I work in a job that doesn't concern itself with facial hair, normal hair, gender, height, weight, tattoos, etc because in the real world these are only a cover to a book which has important, useful and creative content that can be read.
Professionalism isn't possible with a beard? I don't get that statement at all
A clean shortened beard shouldnt be a problem at all. And has also nothing to do with professionalism. Professionalism is related to self-confidence and a clean appearance. And a clean beard isn't in conflict with those things (no not that silly TLO way of wearing a beard)
i voted yes because i don't won't wolf to ed up like TLO, no offence but seriously what happened to TLO. He was a cutie but now he has lost his baneling charm and looks. Please Wolf don't go in TLO's footsteps and walk Khaldor's trail with minimum hair
My brother used to work for one of those call centers that try to scam you and they had an obnoxious dress code where you could get seemingly randomly fired for not wearing the right sort of pants. I would always echo my brother's complaints about this to my parents and told them I wasn't really planning to work for any employer that would enforce completely meaningless dress codes. (I think the goal was to have everyone look professional and hope it trickles down to job performance) But my parents tend to just tell me to "suck it up", as I think since they are bitter about their work they resent anyone thinking they deserve to find happiness in it. (hope this is relevant to the thread :o )
Its a pure generational thing. Older generations don't quite understand facial hair in a professional scene when the persons face is being broadcast to a wide audience. It is always safer in a business stand point for their employees to shave as no one can say " I am offended that no one has facial hair " whereas some customers may complain that facial hair makes the casters whose faces are being shown representing the company as being unprofessional. It is always better to be safe then sorry when you are a business that relies on revenue generated from an audience based sport where the face of the casters are being shown on TV/Computer/ etc
I feel like Ive read 14 pages of people that don't understand that your boss has more power than you think they do, and sometimes you have to suck it up.
On March 16 2012 10:42 emc wrote: wolf should be forced to do whatever gom tells him to do, it's a part of his job and if he doesn't want it there are plenty of other people who would.
there are tons of jobs out there that require zero facial hair.
I work for my dads small business at times. He lets me have my hair long (its a few inches past my shoulders) as long as I keep it out of my face. He is pretty adament about me being clean shaven though, if I'm ever doing something where I interact with a customer. Its just what some businesses do.
lol @ people saying grow up and welcome to the real world? Everywhere I have worked beard is allowed as long as it's neat and clean... if you walking around with a crazy hippy beard i can understand why your employer would want it shaved. Also wolf in korea never seen any korean with beard ever some kind of tradition so there is no way for wolf ot have a beard while in korea.
He's a professional, he needs to look clean. So yes, he should have to shave his beard. Sorry, but just because he commentates our favorite game doesn't mean he gets to be lazy and look like a slob. If anything it will reflect poorly on E-Sports if someone is looking in from the outside. The outsiders see a guy with a scruffy beard casting video games and they think "Another lazy guy who sits around and plays video games all day." Just my opinion
On March 16 2012 11:31 cosimorondo wrote: Preferably I would not have to look at his face at all, but since I do, I would prefer that he shaved his beard and saved me from an even more unnerving experience
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
I hope not.
How is this overly strict? In what way does it harshly impede one's ability to express themselves? Give me a break, they asked a maintaining of what they view is a professional look and Wolf abides because he prefers his job over his facial hair.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a "ban" on Wolf's beard. They put a no-smoking sign up but replaced the cigarette with the image of Wolf's beard. They even banned mustaches to prevent any confusion on which parts of his face can he grow facial hair.
What if they ban monobrows, or nose hairs! WHAT THEN! WHERE DOES IT STOP?
The TLO thing is just you trying way too hard to be emotionally distraught about the whole thing.
In MY opinion it IS overly strict. And according to most people voting in the poll, he should be allowed to have a beard.
Nuff said.
I think you are taking what I am saying a bit too far, all I am doing is expressing an opinion and I am definitely not 'emotionally distraught'.
GOM can turn this into something positive - they will ask for viewer donations, and if a certain amount is met, Wolf will then not shave and grow a beard. GOM can contribute by matching the money dollar-for-dollar (up to a certain amount). The money will be donated to esports - for example, rather than just inviting big names to play a special tournament, organise some kind of special event where players out of the limelight (and hence struggling) will have some kind of "time in the sun". Or maybe some kind of "e-sports scholarship", or equivalent idea.
Then doing Wolf's casts, he can say he's growing this beard for such-and-such activity in order to grow esports.
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
I hope not.
How is this overly strict? In what way does it harshly impede one's ability to express themselves? Give me a break, they asked a maintaining of what they view is a professional look and Wolf abides because he prefers his job over his facial hair.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a "ban" on Wolf's beard. They put a no-smoking sign up but replaced the cigarette with the image of Wolf's beard. They even banned mustaches to prevent any confusion on which parts of his face can he grow facial hair.
What if they ban monobrows, or nose hairs! WHAT THEN! WHERE DOES IT STOP?
The TLO thing is just you trying way too hard to be emotionally distraught about the whole thing.
In MY opinion it IS overly strict. And according to most people voting in the poll, he should be allowed to have a beard.
Nuff said.
I think you are taking what I am saying a bit too far, all I am doing is expressing an opinion and I am definitely not 'emotionally distraught'.
Your opinion isn't important though... GOM's is.
Nuff said. (but I'll keep going to explain myself)
If they don't want his beard on their cameras, then it won't be there, it's Wolf's choice if he wants to be there or not.
And the poll doesn't ask if Wolf should be allowed to have his beard, it asks if he should shave it or not, which is a different question. I could vote that he be allowed to have his beard and vote that he should shave it off without contradicting myself.
Walking in the woods You see A little flower, it has a beard, So you pick it and you give it to your wife And she says “That’s wonderful! I’ve always wanted A flower with a beard!"
On March 16 2012 08:05 Mallidon wrote: I reckon it is his choice tbh. The whole 'beards are not professional' statement is totally not right imo. There are loads of professional people who have beards.
I do find it funny this thread has spawned from one comment Wolf made btw.
<3 TL
Again, the professionalism is set by the views of the organization, not the comparison of leniency by other organizations.
Overly strict rules are set by some organisations, not everyone has to follow them.
Are we really going to get to a stage where we decide that SC2 casting is one of these and ban TLO's manly beard from our screens? Ban Wolf from choosing to grow a beard because he wants to?
I hope not.
How is this overly strict? In what way does it harshly impede one's ability to express themselves? Give me a break, they asked a maintaining of what they view is a professional look and Wolf abides because he prefers his job over his facial hair.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a "ban" on Wolf's beard. They put a no-smoking sign up but replaced the cigarette with the image of Wolf's beard. They even banned mustaches to prevent any confusion on which parts of his face can he grow facial hair.
What if they ban monobrows, or nose hairs! WHAT THEN! WHERE DOES IT STOP?
The TLO thing is just you trying way too hard to be emotionally distraught about the whole thing.
In MY opinion it IS overly strict. And according to most people voting in the poll, he should be allowed to have a beard.
Nuff said.
I think you are taking what I am saying a bit too far, all I am doing is expressing an opinion and I am definitely not 'emotionally distraught'.
Your opinion isn't important though... GOM's is.
Nuff said. (but I'll keep going to explain myself)
If they don't want his beard on their cameras, then it won't be there, it's Wolf's choice if he wants to be there or not.
And the poll doesn't ask if Wolf should be allowed to have his beard, it asks if he should shave it or not, which is a different question. I could vote that he be allowed to have his beard and vote that he should shave it off without contradicting myself.
And again, someone posting about who's opinion is important or not. I am not stating that MY opinion overrides GOM's, of course it doesn't. I am simply posting my opinion. Last time I looked, open forums were all about that.
Also the poll states 'Poll: Should Wolf shave his beard?'
Implying that if he doesn't shave, he will grow a beard. Implying that the poll is asking 'should he have a beard'.
One thing i dont get is that people are equating having a beard and not being professional. You can have one and still maintain a professional look by keeping nice and trimmed. Just like your hair, if you come to work with your hair all scraggly of course it is going to look unprofessional, but you comb and or gel it to keep it looking nice. Same thing with keeping a tasteful beard.
Edit This thread is so funny though, wolf gets no fan club but he gets this.
On March 16 2012 10:09 Angel_ wrote: I feel like Ive read 14 pages of people that don't understand that your boss has more power than you think they do, and sometimes you have to suck it up.
that can only come from an US citizen... poor soul
On March 16 2012 22:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can't help but wonder if those who genuinely believe facial hair is "unprofessional" are too young to have grown any yet.
What is unprofessional is being unkempt, in all aspects.
On March 16 2012 22:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can't help but wonder if those who genuinely believe facial hair is "unprofessional" are too young to have grown any yet.
What is unprofessional is being unkempt, in all aspects.
But the suggestion (for Wolf anyway, I'm sure others have gotten off topic) is that he not shave at all. No grooming of the facial hair at all. Completely natural. I think that falls under unkempt! At least, that's how I understand it. Or I don't understand how maintaining nice facial hair would be that much easier than doing a basic shave once a day. Or perhaps Wolf ironically grows a tame beard.
On March 16 2012 22:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can't help but wonder if those who genuinely believe facial hair is "unprofessional" are too young to have grown any yet.
What is unprofessional is being unkempt, in all aspects.
But the suggestion (for Wolf anyway, I'm sure others have gotten off topic) is that he not shave at all. No grooming of the facial hair at all. Completely natural. I think that falls under unkempt! At least, that's how I understand it. Or I don't understand how maintaining nice facial hair would be that much easier than doing a basic shave once a day. Or perhaps Wolf ironically grows a tame beard.
You guys are in way over your heads ...
Maybe it's time to call in an expert, like, a person with an insanely good sense of fashion.
On March 16 2012 22:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can't help but wonder if those who genuinely believe facial hair is "unprofessional" are too young to have grown any yet.
What is unprofessional is being unkempt, in all aspects.
dude i wish u were right. there seems to be a band of about 55-65 yo's atm that are against it - well in my life anyway. Not sure if it was the 70's or something. Long hair gets more of a reaction though as long as your not going full hobo on them.
Nony: I dont think the original poll was full on hobo beard (that is a no) ... but they do look that way for a few weeks till you get some substance.(which i think is why the eg kids all go for the uber trim jawline and goatee look ;p Doubt id say that to incontrols face or he'd hug me to death or soemthing though ). Everyones beard is different but they can all be neat as EG proves pretty well imo.
Keeping a proper beard in check is FAR easier than shaving ... just use skissors. Hack out under your chin (10 secs once a week) ... trim the ol tash so you can eat soup and drink pints still and then just get an electric razon on the rest.
Done in about 15 secs with no agro on my face. Wheras staying clean shaving for me requires shaving twice a day or i look like an alcoholic by 4:30. In fact many moons ago i used to do door to door sales - they used to insist i shaved. They were kind right until i just grew it out then my sales picked up again. Its that inbetween stage that is the problem.
Shaving on the other hand requires me to be in a red hot shower to shave then a cold one to close the pores or my face explodes. WAAAY too much work and not half as manly.
Moreover beards keep me warm and girls that like beards *really* like beards.
If he doesn't want to shave his beard every day I would say it is okay. Every second day should be fine also (maybe third depending how long it gets in that amount of time). But if he actually grows a beard he seriously should maintain it properly. Haven't seen GSL for the last couple of days, so can't say how bad I think it is at the moment.
I'm sure it's like any other job - a beard is fine, as long as you don't show up to work while it's in the "transitional" stage. It's stubble what's forbidden, not having a beard. If he grows a full beard during a break and keeps it well trimmed during the next season it should be fine. I've worked for many businesses with this stipulation.
On March 17 2012 00:19 DreamChaser wrote: If he maintains it sure, nobody wants to see a professional on global television looking like a caveman
I know others have already brought it up, but from my own experience i feel like simply shaving is often less time consuming than maintaining(I'm pretty sure this is the wrong word here..?) a beard that doesn't make you look like + Show Spoiler +
So if shaving each morning is too much to ask, tidying (is this better?) your beard is out of the question anyways.
On March 15 2012 20:07 Chriscras wrote: While we are at it: BRING BACK THE NERD SHIRTS!
THIS!
So much :>
Add me to the list of people who want the nerd shirts back.
I think it is one of those fashion statements that have been subverted in hopes of presenting a more professional look.
Sport coat and nerd shirt should be THE look for an esports caster.
-.-
Oh great,
Now we're getting into attire again. It's the same shit.
You think the OGN/ex-MBC casters would wear half the things they wore during casts out? Unless your name is Kim Chul Min it's highly unlikely. He does fancy the bow ties and likes color.
Dan and Nick got lucky when they were able to plug their shirts non-stop during the show. Times are changing and you will wear what they want you to wear. Case closed. It's their program.
On March 17 2012 00:19 DreamChaser wrote: If he maintains it sure, nobody wants to see a professional on global television looking like a caveman
I know others have already brought it up, but from my own experience i feel like simply shaving is often less time consuming than maintaining(I'm pretty sure this is the wrong word here..?) a beard that doesn't make you look like + Show Spoiler +
So if shaving each morning is too much to ask, tidying (is this better?) your beard is out of the question anyways.
This is very true in my case because my facial hair is out of control. :/ It can get pretty annoying during NHL playoffs.
On March 16 2012 22:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can't help but wonder if those who genuinely believe facial hair is "unprofessional" are too young to have grown any yet.
What is unprofessional is being unkempt, in all aspects.
says mr. best trimmed facial hair on the internet
i approve facial hair, but people shouldnt look like cave men.
/edit and wolf doesnt, so np. but tlo on the other hand ...
I'm expected (not forced) to be well groomed and clean shaven at my job. Many people are, in many cultures around the world. My grandfather told me that in his day a man could get fired if they didn't keep themselves up, it's like saying "I don't give a fuck about how I appear or how I represent this company". It makes sense, he is free to leave his job if he finds it unacceptable, and grow whatever beard he would like.
This is the grown up world not high school. The suggestion that he should be able to look like a bum or a cave man or a singer from the 60's is just immature. He is the face of GSL to tens of thousands of viewers, and how he looks represents them and thier sponsors in some manner even if you personally don't think so. I also think it could turn away some people to see a guy who looks unprofessional, with first time viewers it's hit or miss. If they don't approve or like what they see the 1st three minutes of viewing, you loose that viewer forever. Besides the culture over there is much stricter than many.
Seriously? His job is to be on camera and cast, not shaving is socially unprofessional and its not incredibly hard, its part of his job. I feel like most of the people who want him to keep it posting have never held a professional job or aren't even old enough to shave. Have you ever seen a football/soccer or baseball or any other sports caster with an unshaven face? What about a Korean caster? TLO can go unshaven because he is a player. Not a caster.
On March 16 2012 22:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can't help but wonder if those who genuinely believe facial hair is "unprofessional" are too young to have grown any yet.
What is unprofessional is being unkempt, in all aspects.
But the suggestion (for Wolf anyway, I'm sure others have gotten off topic) is that he not shave at all. No grooming of the facial hair at all. Completely natural. I think that falls under unkempt! At least, that's how I understand it. Or I don't understand how maintaining nice facial hair would be that much easier than doing a basic shave once a day. Or perhaps Wolf ironically grows a tame beard.
I actually find it much easier to shave just my cheeks and neck than to shave entirely. If you want to shave entirely you either need to use an electric shaver which often leaves annoying stubbles, or you'll have to use shaving foam not to cut yourself - but if you just want to get rid of the hairs on your neck and cheek, leaving your chin, a mustache and optionally a line drawing from your ears down to your chin, you can just spend a minute or two with a simple razor and some hot water and you're done. For some reason you don't really need shaving foam for those areas - I guess it's the parts of the face that curve around your jawbone that complicates things? An electric trimmer will let you keep the beard at a proper length, which is also very easy.
Point being, if Wolf wants to maintain a beard, it's easier than having to shave entirely. (Unless his facial hair is in some way different to mine, I suppose)
On March 16 2012 22:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can't help but wonder if those who genuinely believe facial hair is "unprofessional" are too young to have grown any yet.
What is unprofessional is being unkempt, in all aspects.
But the suggestion (for Wolf anyway, I'm sure others have gotten off topic) is that he not shave at all. No grooming of the facial hair at all. Completely natural. I think that falls under unkempt! At least, that's how I understand it. Or I don't understand how maintaining nice facial hair would be that much easier than doing a basic shave once a day. Or perhaps Wolf ironically grows a tame beard.
As someone with a beard, it's WAY easier to trim it a couple of times a week and touch up a few spots here and there than it is to do a full-on shave every morning. We're talking a difference of 5 min once or twice a week vs. 3-4 minutes every day!
On March 17 2012 01:47 .Carnage wrote: Have you ever seen a football/soccer or baseball or any other sports caster with an unshaven face?
Yes... Like, all the time. Dierdorf has had facial hair for ages while doing his broadcasts. Dennis Miller had a full beard when he did MNF. James Brown has a mustache. Charlie Steiner had MAN BEARD when he did Sports Center back in the day....
It may not be the norm, but it's certainly not unheardof, and if you think you can't look professional with a beard, you're fooling yourself.
There seems to be a cultural thing going on with Americans saying beard=unprofessional, while Europeans seem more relaxed. There's a difference between being unshaven and sporting a well-kept beard. To be considered "professional" in America, can't you have any facial hair at all? Just not a full beard or no other beard styles either? How about in Korea? Was Jinro's look frowned upon? Not that it matters because Wolf doesn't want to grow a beard anyway.
if you think beard = unprofessional, its because every time you went to a job interview your smelly neckbeard turned them off. beards are not unprofessional people are.
On March 17 2012 01:47 .Carnage wrote: Seriously? His job is to be on camera and cast, not shaving is socially unprofessional and its not incredibly hard, its part of his job. I feel like most of the people who want him to keep it posting have never held a professional job or aren't even old enough to shave. Have you ever seen a football/soccer or baseball or any other sports caster with an unshaven face? What about a Korean caster? TLO can go unshaven because he is a player. Not a caster.
Harder to maintain a well groomed beard than it is to shave it off.
This is so silly, this is like saying long hair is unprofessional. No, your level of hygiene and grooming is what determines whether or not it is professional. Furthermore, if Wolf declared a religious right to grow a beard, No one could say shit.
On March 16 2012 09:03 Ectrid wrote: Just to make it clear for everyone, Wolf only stated he hates shaving in the morning, that is all. So people, stop blaming GOM or other things for no reason!
On March 16 2012 03:11 Ectrid wrote: Here you got a picture!
On March 16 2012 02:14 Promethelax wrote:
On March 16 2012 01:53 Ectrid wrote: As the OP, i want this thread be taken serious. Because little things like this are just the tip of the Iceberg!
"It is on the day that we can conceive of a different state of affairs that a new light falls on our troubles and our suffering and that we decide that these are unbearable." -Sartre
Although I approve of your Sartre quote I'm honestly confused, do you really think this is a thing that needs to be addressed? I love beards, I have a beard but when I worked in a kitchen I had to shave it or wear a beard net, that seems reasonable. Why should it be different in another job? If your employer makes a request involving your personal appearance you have two choices follow their direction or leave the job, it is as simple as that.
Beards are awesome though, I haven't been carded at a liquor store in forever.
Well, did you ever have the feeling, after New Years Day, when all the party and family stuff is over and you are by yourself that times goes by so fast? That there is already another year over? Did you ever feel that way? And can you remember your childhood, when everyday was a great experience? Where you wanted to just stay a little bit longer outside with your friends to play, just 5 minutes, tiny 5 minutes where worth it?
Why do you think these times are over? Because you are an adult and you lost your passion and your interests shifted? Imo the reason is, that now you live in the so called "real life" or "the real world" everyone that already had gone this way, know what i mean. What is expected of you is to do your work, your old friends mostly don't even live anymore near you, because you had to move away, or they had to move away, because the job requires it. So you spent the rest of your life working, maintaining everything you bought and build, your car, your place, your family and the rest of the time you got you kill in consumption of media, food, books, hobbies, sports....
we can learn from experiences other made: 5 of the most things people on their deathbeds regret are:
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. 2. I wish I didn’t work so hard. 3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings. 4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. 5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.
You really think, none of these are things you will regret on you own deathbed? And this is no bullshit, your life will be over, forever.
We live in a world where we could have everything, but the greed of some, lets us waste our time, our life. Wake up and open your eyes, you are not free, you are as free as they allow you! If you don't follow you will get thrown into prison or worse!
We are born into these systems! Can you really choose? Different Country's are just different human farms! We are controlled by fear! the mass media, education, religion and society!
Can't YOU see, that you ARE blind?
But, as Voltaire says, flies are born to be eaten by spiders and men are born to be consumed by sorrow. And to be a member of a society one must give up freedom. The only way to be truly free of the demands of other people and of society is to exist without any other people, to live as either a god or a beast.
In the words of Aristotle "he who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god: he is no part of a state. A social instinct is implanted in all men by nature, and yet he who first founded the state was the greatest of benefactors."
So yes, I can see, I am not blind and though I disagree with what you say I believe in your right to say it.
Oh yeah you gotta love freedom of speech! I really have to say, i am quite surprised by your answer! Thanks for this!
But don't you think, that we now live in a connected world, where we have the communication capabilities, the technology and the production capacity's, to feed every human, to give every human a home and a place and to maintain a certain degree of living standard?
Why can't we work for us? Instead we work for companies, private people or the government! The rich only get richer and those with power only gain more power! While for the most people it gets harder every day... All i want to say is, we should begin to work for ourselves! Work as and for our species.
I think we can only have a better world, if society wants to change the system. And most important, people need to understand this concept. Don't call it Socialism, Capitalism or Marxism... That's pigeonhole thinking.
We fulfill the requirements for a change, only the chains of our minds are holding us back.
Why is this thread btw still running? lol I really think this thread shows the desire of many for a better world.
Why are you surprised by this answer? What other answer could I have given? You are most welcome though.
We do indeed live in such a world. A world where, if there was no human corruption, everyone would be fed and healthy. Everyone would have a roof over their head and the world would be even more over populated, if we did that we would destroy the world we live in even faster. We, in the so called first world, are already using natural resources faster than they can be created and reproducing too fast. Adding more people to this will not help humanity as a whole.
The problem is that each person works for themselves, we cannot work for us because we are not a unity. To work for ourselves, for our species, we would have to intentionally kill off many other members of our species, we have over populated the world and there are no natural predators left to us. We are the most dangerous game and the most dangerous prey.
I don't see how we can have a better world, until we do work as a society to reduce our ease of life and make our species a part of the world instead of acting against it. The concept needs a name for people to understand it, humans define everything within their language so what shall we call it if not those? Societalism? Populism? We must pigeon hole the idea so that a person coming from the outside can understand it quickly and at a glance.
How in the world is this thread showing that desire? It was started to talk about one man's beard and whether or not he has the right to have it in a public area while being employed by a private organization. This thread is silly.
Well i was just surprised by such an intelligent and well thought response. That's all and by no means i think my opinion is the pure and only truth, the more i know, the less i really know... or how do you say? ^^
Absolutely, overpopulation is a problem. But you are not right! Because you don't have to kill people to reduce the world's population, if every couple just have 2 children, the population wouldn't grow anymore. So set a limit of 2 and you will have decrease of population until you have a healthy count of population. I was even reading something last time, that our blue planet could carry 10-20 Billion people... but i don't think that is healthy. 1 to max 5 billion should be ok. but i'm no expert and this is just theory crafting...
And your point on we are not a unity, i agree, but we will be, we are getting as connected as we can be, thanks to the Internet and modern communication systems and this trend will rapidly grow. When we reach the point of total connection and communication, society and humanity will perhaps evolve into one big organism. like a bot-net or a world lan. (not like the internet, way more extreme and extensive).
Yeah perhaps you need a good word, but this will only works if humanity evolves into it by itself and understands it by itself. it has to be a movement and revolution/evolution.
Haha, yes i understand you completely, this thread is silly, but aren't you a little bit surprised about the length of this thread? People are debating even about a little and silly thing like this with passion, because it is important for everyone. I think you can clearly see these two sides of the coin. Between being a customized worker and citizen, and a natural human.
The average shave lasts 3.5 minutes. It is also estimated that a man will shave at least 20,000 times in his lifetime. This means you spend almost about 50 days in your life only shaving... (correct me if i am mistaken, i suck so hard at math)
Is this really worth the time? I don't think it is... just imagine what you could do with these 50 days and that is my point, shaving is just a tiny little small evil you have to endure. I'm tired, read ya.
Taking this to PM, we're just getting a little too far off topic for us to keep it up here.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LCXHd.jpg)
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and never will since it really fucks up my skin.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aD7A6.jpg)
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