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On March 12 2012 07:02 Rye. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 06:45 MuteZephyr wrote:
I love how every person complaining about sample size selectively ignores the SC2rank statistics as well as the poll statistics and just so happen to have a non-terran icon. Just because Terran was OP a while back and you where angry about it doesn't mean you have to carry a grudge forever. I remember pretty much giving up as soon as I saw T as Z, but now it's pretty much a cakewalk due to Terran lack of late game options. Most Zergs seem to have the same sentiment.
This situation has been apparent for a long time. At professional levels, Terran is great but the skill curve is so extreme to get to that level of play that for all people that don't make a living playing sc2, Terran is not worth it if you care about winning. you cant use sc2ranks. It shows % of players in each race, not number of games each race has played. A terran might just play 1 game at the start of the season then quit, he'd be counted in the sc2ranks race distribution, but he wouldnt be producing games with terran in them.
sc2ranks is the foremost method to pick any trend, i hope you were joking about not being able to use it for inferring racial prefference.
As for your example, it actually makes matters worse when you combine %players shown in sc2ranks with results here (% in games played)
That is terran at around 25%.
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I switched to Terran from zerg in season 2. ( Repair ftw) When I switched terran has been constantly nerfed. I've noticed a lot of zergs/protosses on ladder recently. I'm low masters. There just doesn't seem to be that many terrans out on the field anymore...
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On March 12 2012 09:07 Bodzilla wrote:
I've been a zerg from launch, then last month i started playing random, and at the moment i'm playing only terran.
i think alot of terrans where just cry babys once their bullshit strats got figured out or nerfed (like they should of been).
terrans still a good race, and they're still easy to play tbh.
was a diamond zerg getting 50/50 of my matches against masters before i switched, now i'm a plat going 50/50 against diamonds as terran, and it's taken me about 3 weeks to get to this state.
link to profile
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Overall, I think a lot of Terran's just switched Races.
In the beginning of SC2, Terran was seen as the easy race and OP because a lot of the cheesy, gimicky strats revolving around bio. Plus you have Wings of Liberty, a Terran xpac with Terran single player - all leading to more Terrans.
Protoss' starts climbing to "OP Race" spot now that Protoss' know what it is that they need to be good Protoss. (Forcefields, deception, efficient tech paths, upgrades, proxies)
Now, we have Protoss "easy mode" mentality, and there are a lot of Protoss.
It's just a flavor of the month, those people who always complain, and look for 'easier' wins, are always going to switch to the 'OP Race'.
Zerg is next.
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On March 12 2012 09:14 psp219 wrote:
I switched to Terran from zerg in season 2. ( Repair ftw) When I switched terran has been constantly nerfed. I've noticed a lot of zergs/protosses on ladder recently. I'm low masters. There just doesn't seem to be that many terrans out on the field anymore...
Which is sad in my opinion.
In my Ideal ladder experience I'd want equal representation of all races.
It keeps the game interesting for me, keeps me on my toes.
I never want to get that "Oh God, I have to play X Race again, and again, and again"
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On March 11 2012 11:17 Fission wrote:Your sample is too small for your conclusion to be statistically significant. With that said, there are slightly less terrans in NA diamond than P or Z (sc2ranks stats). http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/am/1/all
I see someone forgot to click the link... Also sample size does not determine whether something can be statistically significant or not anyway..
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Its interesting to see the Zergs weakest matchup is Protoss. And Protoss weakest matchup is Zerg. lol
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On March 12 2012 10:59 GlintFox wrote:
Its interesting to see the Zergs weakest matchup is Protoss. And Protoss weakest matchup is Zerg. lol
It's also just downright depressing that no one thinks playing against a Terran is challenging, not even other Terrans.
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i'm right here and on the rise!
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According to the Poll, Terran is Underpowered  .
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Anyone who talks about the top 100 as some reason for race balance doesn't know what they're talking about. The race of the top players is based on personal preference. If the best players in the world all enjoyed playing protoss the most and it was 80% protoss it wouldn't mean that they're OP because of it. Terrans just had the most influence and ex-broodwar a/b teamers to switch over and have a lead. Even if terran was slightly stronger in the beginning, that isn't even when they won GSLs.
Out of personal opinion, I considered the time right before 1.4.3 to be one of the most balanced time periods we've had. I still don't know about the phoenix upgrade since I won't claim to be a protoss vs zerg specialist but the ghost nerf was too much. At least give us irradiate on our raven or something.
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On March 12 2012 12:00 Celestia wrote:According to the Poll, Terran is Underpowered .
Yes, well that poll is self selecting. You can find a number of thread with similar topics and very similar posts. A lot of claims from terran players that they outplayed their opponent, only to lose in the end game to an A-moved protoss army. There will also be posts about hard terran is, that is is the hardest race to play and that only be best players can make it good. These will be backed up by claiming that terran is harder at the diamond/masters level, though not information as to why that is will be given. No replays will be provided, because that would allow people to review why the terran players lost. Finding out why a terran lost the a specific game or what they did wrong is not part of this threat. There will also be not stats to back up their win rates, which they will claim are 20% against protoss and/or zerg(though likely protoss).
Edit: grammer
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On March 12 2012 10:53 Arjaay wrote:
I see someone forgot to click the link... Also sample size does not determine whether something can be statistically significant or not anyway..
Sample size certainly does determine how much variation one can have before it's statistically significant. Generally, how much variation you need for statistical significance scales with 1/n^2 where n is the number of samples.
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I could definitely understand the reason for the decline in terrans. From a personal viewpoint, the race can be extremely frustrating to play on two ends. The micro requirement in battles can either put you ahead or completely fuck you, and there's obviously nothing more frustrating than having your army wiped out in 5 seconds by a protoss deathball.
Now obviously this isn't the fault of protoss players, it's just how the game ended up.
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A lot of people may have started off as terran because of the campaign and then gravitated towards another race after playing for a while. Which is what i did =p
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On March 11 2012 21:15 sleepingdog wrote:
Terran was the strongest race since release for a very, very long time - it's only natural that now, after things are getting more balanced, the weaker terrans lose more, simply because they were at a MMR that was higher than their skill.
If any terran feels offended by this, just take the extreme example of someone just abusing 111 vs toss and double rax marine/bunker vs zerg. It's clear that now he will drop (will have dropped).
To give you some food for thought about your blahblah terran op blahblah nerf terran..
I started playing in season 6. I have no idea what you are talking about Terran being Overpowered.. My TvP winrate is 15% or less, and i still get that mu 3 out of 5 games.. My TvZ is just a little lower than 50% because I just figured out how to stop bLing busts, and I have started winning more as a result.. My TvT is inflated because I never get TvT, so I just gasless 6 rax marine ftw..
You say abusing this 1-1-1 strat, so im going to try it out.. I am absofuckinglutly sick of getting rolled TvP every game, because I have to wait on build times for my reinforments, whereas P just warps them in in the middle of the battle and rolls me.. I have never been one to cheese, but if that is the way to win, so be it..
Fix protoss, they are too easymode. And from the argument you are making about how Terran is "balanc"ing out, then Warp Gate + Chrono boost forge should be toned down, because it is to strong as it is.. And For The Love Of Whatever You Belive In, give me more options than T1 MMM to win games.. I would like to see Protoss players use nothing but Zelots and Stalkers in ALL ther mu's for a month, and see how well they do..
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On March 12 2012 12:13 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:53 Arjaay wrote:
I see someone forgot to click the link... Also sample size does not determine whether something can be statistically significant or not anyway.. Sample size certainly does determine how much variation one can have before it's statistically significant. Generally, how much variation you need for statistical significance scales with 1/n^2 where n is the number of samples.
Thankfully someone who can speak the languate of stats was able to correct this one...I would also suggest you take a look at what happens when you get extremely large sample sizes
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It's all metagame. Plays a bigger role than anyone gives credit.. in a few months another race will be seen as the strongest and Protoss the weakest, let's not forget the past 1 1/2+ years where protoss was consistently at the low end of these stats and considered the weakest race (lowest # in winrate charts, result charts etc.) for some reason that whole massive time period is forgotten when all of these terrans complain.
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I feel like the problem is in large part to people at lower levels trying to make micro-based comps work for them because they work at pro level. Terran is really strong, but they're just so micro/multitasking dependent right now that any terrans either get to high masters/grandmasters or have a seriously tough time getting through low-mid masters and below diamond. I think more low terrans should switch to some kind of mech style to get the skill required to play their race more in line with protoss/zerg.
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EPT
