• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:48
CEST 14:48
KST 21:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Tulbo's ASL S21 Ro8 Post-Review Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps?
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Path of Exile OutLive 25 (RTS Game)
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1074 users

Where did all of the terrans go? - Page 179

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 177 178 179 180 181 202 Next
YyapSsap
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand1511 Posts
April 01 2012 22:04 GMT
#3561
An interesting observation I seem to notice in this thread is that those T players who do find TvP rather their best matchup does poorly in the other matchups.
Sergio1992
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Italy522 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 22:06:46
April 01 2012 22:06 GMT
#3562
On April 02 2012 07:04 YyapSsap wrote:
An interesting observation I seem to notice in this thread is that those T players who do find TvP rather their best matchup does poorly in the other matchups.

this is true also for me. Don't ask me why.
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
April 01 2012 22:08 GMT
#3563
Yeah i've noticed that too. Either you're good at TvP, or good at TvZ/TvT. Might have to do with bio control vs tank+bio
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
Mantraz
Profile Joined March 2011
Norway119 Posts
April 01 2012 22:09 GMT
#3564
After the snipe nerf i feel TvZ is quickly becoming the new TvP, anyone else having similar experiences in masters? Mutas are not the issue, it's ling/festor...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 01 2012 22:09 GMT
#3565
On April 02 2012 07:08 Twistacles wrote:
Yeah i've noticed that too. Either you're good at TvP, or good at TvZ/TvT. Might have to do with bio control vs tank+bio


I think both match ups take different skill sets. The same goes for PvT and PvZ. My PvZ is WAY better than my PvT.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
April 01 2012 22:12 GMT
#3566
On April 02 2012 07:04 YyapSsap wrote:
An interesting observation I seem to notice in this thread is that those T players who do find TvP rather their best matchup does poorly in the other matchups.

Thats quite simple to explain:
The ladder gives you harder opponents if you perform better, keeping everyone that is not on the top of the ladder or way too low in MMR compared to skill (for example when you buy a second account and just started laddering on it) around 50% overall winrate. Therfore if you are really good in one MU, you get "too hard" opponents in the other MUs, and therefore your winrate in those is low but your average winrate is ~50%.
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 22:15:58
April 01 2012 22:13 GMT
#3567
On April 02 2012 07:09 Mantraz wrote:
After the snipe nerf i feel TvZ is quickly becoming the new TvP, anyone else having similar experiences in masters? Mutas are not the issue, it's ling/festor...


I got huge problems vs infestor + broodlord + some ground units. I tried to study terrans like kas, happy, etc, but they:
1) get an advantage and then win vs it
2) die like I do

Its really crazy how cost efficient that composition is. I'm still looking for a sollution vs it. Most of the time I massdrop, and destroy their eco, but then their army moves towards my nat and I just lose my army. Then he goes for my production and I die.

Anyone experiencing the same?
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
April 01 2012 22:21 GMT
#3568
On April 02 2012 07:13 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2012 07:09 Mantraz wrote:
After the snipe nerf i feel TvZ is quickly becoming the new TvP, anyone else having similar experiences in masters? Mutas are not the issue, it's ling/festor...


I got huge problems vs infestor + broodlord + some ground units. I tried to study terrans like kas, happy, etc, but they:
1) get an advantage and then win vs it
2) die like I do

Its really crazy how cost efficient that composition is. I'm still looking for a sollution vs it. Most of the time I massdrop, and destroy their eco, but then their army moves towards my nat and I just lose my army. Then he goes for my production and I die.

Anyone experiencing the same?


It's only harder because it's different. You can't play against it like you would ling muta.

As soon as you see the double evo you gotta go double ebay, mix in marauders, and turtle. Your normal 4th timing is usually delayed since a lot of zergs go ling ultra on 3 base and deny your 4th till you leave. What seems to work is to stay on 3, max out, and force him to engage in a bad position. If he tries to expand, engage him. If he doesn't expand, bunker up.

This is overly simplistic so don't flame me, but that's more-or-less what you do
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
mazqo
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland368 Posts
April 01 2012 22:27 GMT
#3569
http://drop.sc/packs/794

There is my last 27 TvP's, didnt filter them anyway. Hope you learn something!
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
April 01 2012 22:29 GMT
#3570
On April 02 2012 07:21 Twistacles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2012 07:13 Snowbear wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:09 Mantraz wrote:
After the snipe nerf i feel TvZ is quickly becoming the new TvP, anyone else having similar experiences in masters? Mutas are not the issue, it's ling/festor...


I got huge problems vs infestor + broodlord + some ground units. I tried to study terrans like kas, happy, etc, but they:
1) get an advantage and then win vs it
2) die like I do

Its really crazy how cost efficient that composition is. I'm still looking for a sollution vs it. Most of the time I massdrop, and destroy their eco, but then their army moves towards my nat and I just lose my army. Then he goes for my production and I die.

Anyone experiencing the same?


It's only harder because it's different. You can't play against it like you would ling muta.

As soon as you see the double evo you gotta go double ebay, mix in marauders, and turtle. Your normal 4th timing is usually delayed since a lot of zergs go ling ultra on 3 base and deny your 4th till you leave. What seems to work is to stay on 3, max out, and force him to engage in a bad position. If he tries to expand, engage him. If he doesn't expand, bunker up.

This is overly simplistic so don't flame me, but that's more-or-less what you do


I'm talking about broodlord infestor. Turtle against that and you die 100%...
Bidj
Profile Joined September 2010
France98 Posts
April 01 2012 22:31 GMT
#3571
On April 02 2012 07:27 mazqo wrote:
http://drop.sc/packs/794

There is my last 27 TvP's, didnt filter them anyway. Hope you learn something!


Thanks.
Rooooaaaar
fox77
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada95 Posts
April 01 2012 22:34 GMT
#3572
They are at finals they win all the prize money.
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
April 01 2012 22:38 GMT
#3573
On April 02 2012 07:29 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2012 07:21 Twistacles wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:13 Snowbear wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:09 Mantraz wrote:
After the snipe nerf i feel TvZ is quickly becoming the new TvP, anyone else having similar experiences in masters? Mutas are not the issue, it's ling/festor...


I got huge problems vs infestor + broodlord + some ground units. I tried to study terrans like kas, happy, etc, but they:
1) get an advantage and then win vs it
2) die like I do

Its really crazy how cost efficient that composition is. I'm still looking for a sollution vs it. Most of the time I massdrop, and destroy their eco, but then their army moves towards my nat and I just lose my army. Then he goes for my production and I die.

Anyone experiencing the same?


It's only harder because it's different. You can't play against it like you would ling muta.

As soon as you see the double evo you gotta go double ebay, mix in marauders, and turtle. Your normal 4th timing is usually delayed since a lot of zergs go ling ultra on 3 base and deny your 4th till you leave. What seems to work is to stay on 3, max out, and force him to engage in a bad position. If he tries to expand, engage him. If he doesn't expand, bunker up.

This is overly simplistic so don't flame me, but that's more-or-less what you do


I'm talking about broodlord infestor. Turtle against that and you die 100%...

Oh. Yeah. If you see broodlord infestor then it's actually easier, imo. You grab your 4th at the usual timing at like the 160 food pushout and overmake vikings
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
Micket
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2163 Posts
April 01 2012 22:45 GMT
#3574
On April 02 2012 07:38 Twistacles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2012 07:29 Snowbear wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:21 Twistacles wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:13 Snowbear wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:09 Mantraz wrote:
After the snipe nerf i feel TvZ is quickly becoming the new TvP, anyone else having similar experiences in masters? Mutas are not the issue, it's ling/festor...


I got huge problems vs infestor + broodlord + some ground units. I tried to study terrans like kas, happy, etc, but they:
1) get an advantage and then win vs it
2) die like I do

Its really crazy how cost efficient that composition is. I'm still looking for a sollution vs it. Most of the time I massdrop, and destroy their eco, but then their army moves towards my nat and I just lose my army. Then he goes for my production and I die.

Anyone experiencing the same?


It's only harder because it's different. You can't play against it like you would ling muta.

As soon as you see the double evo you gotta go double ebay, mix in marauders, and turtle. Your normal 4th timing is usually delayed since a lot of zergs go ling ultra on 3 base and deny your 4th till you leave. What seems to work is to stay on 3, max out, and force him to engage in a bad position. If he tries to expand, engage him. If he doesn't expand, bunker up.

This is overly simplistic so don't flame me, but that's more-or-less what you do


I'm talking about broodlord infestor. Turtle against that and you die 100%...

Oh. Yeah. If you see broodlord infestor then it's actually easier, imo. You grab your 4th at the usual timing at like the 160 food pushout and overmake vikings

That works vs 3 base Broodlord. 4+base is a different beast entirely as the ultra switch WILL kill you.
Keylime
Profile Joined July 2011
United States33 Posts
April 01 2012 22:47 GMT
#3575
On April 02 2012 07:45 Micket wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2012 07:38 Twistacles wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:29 Snowbear wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:21 Twistacles wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:13 Snowbear wrote:
On April 02 2012 07:09 Mantraz wrote:
After the snipe nerf i feel TvZ is quickly becoming the new TvP, anyone else having similar experiences in masters? Mutas are not the issue, it's ling/festor...


I got huge problems vs infestor + broodlord + some ground units. I tried to study terrans like kas, happy, etc, but they:
1) get an advantage and then win vs it
2) die like I do

Its really crazy how cost efficient that composition is. I'm still looking for a sollution vs it. Most of the time I massdrop, and destroy their eco, but then their army moves towards my nat and I just lose my army. Then he goes for my production and I die.

Anyone experiencing the same?


It's only harder because it's different. You can't play against it like you would ling muta.

As soon as you see the double evo you gotta go double ebay, mix in marauders, and turtle. Your normal 4th timing is usually delayed since a lot of zergs go ling ultra on 3 base and deny your 4th till you leave. What seems to work is to stay on 3, max out, and force him to engage in a bad position. If he tries to expand, engage him. If he doesn't expand, bunker up.

This is overly simplistic so don't flame me, but that's more-or-less what you do


I'm talking about broodlord infestor. Turtle against that and you die 100%...

Oh. Yeah. If you see broodlord infestor then it's actually easier, imo. You grab your 4th at the usual timing at like the 160 food pushout and overmake vikings

That works vs 3 base Broodlord. 4+base is a different beast entirely as the ultra switch WILL kill you.


This, the ultra switch is extremely efficient, and if a terran makes an army to defeat BL infestor, he will die to ultra infestor switch.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
corpsepose
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1678 Posts
April 01 2012 22:49 GMT
#3576
On April 02 2012 07:04 YyapSsap wrote:
An interesting observation I seem to notice in this thread is that those T players who do find TvP rather their best matchup does poorly in the other matchups.


this holds true for me. my tvp is miles ahead of the other two.
http://www.twitch.tv/corpsep0se
YyapSsap
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand1511 Posts
April 01 2012 23:15 GMT
#3577
Very curious now to see why you and other T players (minority of the T populace where the majority finds TvP difficult) find other matchups difficult. It could be due to playing against more skilled opponents as what Big J is suggesting so that the overall MMR can stay within 50% but Im thinking Blizz wants to maintain a 50% winrate across all three matchups, so that it results in an overall 50%.

Im guessing like the micromanagement of units such as tanks play a big factor.
DooMDash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1015 Posts
April 01 2012 23:44 GMT
#3578
My TvT and TvZ are miles and miles ahead of my TvP. Even when I lose I at least feel like I either played bad, or have major room for improvement. TvP rarely feels that way, it feels like there is little to be learned from my experiences besides build order wins or just being much better. So maybe my TvP is a lack of understanding my mistakes or where to improve, but it seems like that problem in itself could also be related to a bigger design problem.

For me TvP isn't even back in fourth. When I lose I lose hard, when I win it was either a build order win, a bit of luck, or just being much better than my opponent. When I play TvZ's or TvT's I actually have lots and lots of matches where the games are crazy close and intense, and TvP just isn't like that for me.
S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
April 02 2012 00:18 GMT
#3579
On April 02 2012 08:15 YyapSsap wrote:
Very curious now to see why you and other T players (minority of the T populace where the majority finds TvP difficult) find other matchups difficult. It could be due to playing against more skilled opponents as what Big J is suggesting so that the overall MMR can stay within 50% but Im thinking Blizz wants to maintain a 50% winrate across all three matchups, so that it results in an overall 50%.

Im guessing like the micromanagement of units such as tanks play a big factor.


It's because he mains Protoss. Guess what my strongest matchup is when I play protoss... PvT.

Not rocket science. Simply the matchup you understand the best because you played it loads with the opposite race.
XquisiteWretch
Profile Joined March 2012
United States77 Posts
April 02 2012 00:18 GMT
#3580
On April 02 2012 08:44 DooMDash wrote:
My TvT and TvZ are miles and miles ahead of my TvP. Even when I lose I at least feel like I either played bad, or have major room for improvement. TvP rarely feels that way, it feels like there is little to be learned from my experiences besides build order wins or just being much better. So maybe my TvP is a lack of understanding my mistakes or where to improve, but it seems like that problem in itself could also be related to a bigger design problem.

For me TvP isn't even back in fourth. When I lose I lose hard, when I win it was either a build order win, a bit of luck, or just being much better than my opponent. When I play TvZ's or TvT's I actually have lots and lots of matches where the games are crazy close and intense, and TvP just isn't like that for me.


Man you nailed that one on the head, that is exactly how I feel with TvP, I just couldnt quite it express it as well as you just did.
Live free or die
Prev 1 177 178 179 180 181 202 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
Wardi Spring Cup
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
WardiTV454
LiquipediaDiscussion
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 5: Group C
Shameless vs SHINLIVE!
Tasteless1208
IntoTheiNu 780
Ryung 376
Rex121
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #145
CranKy Ducklings35
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1184
Ryung 376
Lowko306
Rex 118
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 47324
Sea 16570
Calm 9069
Horang2 1601
EffOrt 668
BeSt 526
Mini 460
firebathero 396
Soulkey 346
Zeus 198
[ Show more ]
Last 184
Mind 126
PianO 102
ToSsGirL 96
Sharp 89
HiyA 87
ggaemo 85
Pusan 68
Backho 54
Shinee 51
Noble 42
Hyun 41
hero 36
Aegong 34
sorry 20
Sacsri 13
yabsab 12
Rock 12
GoRush 11
JulyZerg 7
Icarus 2
Dota 2
Gorgc3920
XcaliburYe379
BananaSlamJamma80
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m2802
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor161
Other Games
gofns11430
singsing2425
B2W.Neo756
DeMusliM351
monkeys_forever130
Livibee86
Mew2King57
ArmadaUGS43
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL17354
Other Games
gamesdonequick1670
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 524
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 13
• Dystopia_ 4
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3036
• Jankos1349
Upcoming Events
SC Evo League
13m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2h 13m
BSL
6h 13m
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
11h 13m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 13m
RSL Revival
21h 13m
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
22h 13m
BSL
1d 6h
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
1d 19h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 21h
Soma vs Leta
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 23h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.