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Where did all of the terrans go? - Page 173

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
April 01 2012 06:17 GMT
#3441
Over 50% of Zergs have trouble against Protoss?

Are we both playing the same game here?
WaKai
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada88 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 06:44:47
April 01 2012 06:42 GMT
#3442
This thread should be closed, its going nowhere.

I would rather the game be balanced at the highest level, than for lower leagues. I understand, that it is hard for t players, myself being one. Terran, if controled perfectly is in fact op, simply because of the mechanics. The better the pros get, the more t needs to be nerfed, as they reach a new level of which the other races can't reach simply because of GAME DESIGN. Please, stop complaining, suck it up and play the game for what it is and know that you can always improve your micro, macro.
You won't be able to improve further by blaming somthing of which you cannot change. You think pro soccer, football, hockey etc players got as good as they did by blaming refs? Please smarten up and represent your race with pride.

On a more happy note, i'm so proued that mkp broke his curse :D

edit: yes broodwar terrans had more trouble in lower levels, for the same exact reason in sc2.
vvvgaming.com @vVv_WaKa http://www.facebook.com/#!/vVvWaKai http://www.twitch.tv/vvvwakai
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
April 01 2012 06:54 GMT
#3443
On April 01 2012 15:15 LavaLava wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 10:38 avilo wrote:
On April 01 2012 09:16 Rowrin wrote:
what I want to see is how bliz will fix this issue in WoL. Forget HoTS, Bliz constantly says "oh we wont force anyone to play HoTS, we wont force a transition from WoL if everyone is content playing that."

Bliz admits there is a problem with chargelots vs Terran, that is their whole insentive for the battlehellion. Cool. One question, what is bliz going to do in WoL to fix a problem that they are "fixing" in HoTS?

Blizcon:

Protoss having problems vs mutas, in HoTS we'll introduce tempest. Meanwhile in WoL we'll buff phoenix's.

Terran having problems vs chargelots, HoTS we'll give you battlehellions. Good luck in the meantime tho.


I don't think you understand how RTS expansions work. Everyone will 100% be playing the new game because it's the newer version of the game. People still playing WoL are essentially saying they want to play on a previous patch.

Saying you're gonna stay in WoL is the equivalent of saying you're going to keep playing patch 1.0.0 or what not...that's not how RTS works. You play the latest version of the game, and HOTS will be the latest version of the game.




Wait.... what??

I hope you mean that somewhat figuratively. They're going to have separate ladders for each expansion, as I'm sure you know... Playing WoL after HotS is more like playing Vanilla SC1 after BW, except imagine that Vanilla SC1 is not an incomplete mess of a competitive game.

Maybe you mean the community is going to shift to HotS? Well, yes of course, but people will still play WoL and Blizzard said they would continue to support it, and will continue to acknowledge it and support it as the primary game for as long as it takes them to un-break HotS balance and gameplay.

With the extreme probable differences between WoL and HotS I would say continuing on WoL is much different than picking say Patch 1.2.2 and starting up a private server to play it on.


Vanilla SC1 was most definitely an incomplete mess of a game.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Rowrin
Profile Joined September 2011
United States280 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 07:38:23
April 01 2012 07:38 GMT
#3444
On April 01 2012 15:54 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 15:15 LavaLava wrote:
On April 01 2012 10:38 avilo wrote:
On April 01 2012 09:16 Rowrin wrote:
what I want to see is how bliz will fix this issue in WoL. Forget HoTS, Bliz constantly says "oh we wont force anyone to play HoTS, we wont force a transition from WoL if everyone is content playing that."

Bliz admits there is a problem with chargelots vs Terran, that is their whole insentive for the battlehellion. Cool. One question, what is bliz going to do in WoL to fix a problem that they are "fixing" in HoTS?

Blizcon:

Protoss having problems vs mutas, in HoTS we'll introduce tempest. Meanwhile in WoL we'll buff phoenix's.

Terran having problems vs chargelots, HoTS we'll give you battlehellions. Good luck in the meantime tho.


I don't think you understand how RTS expansions work. Everyone will 100% be playing the new game because it's the newer version of the game. People still playing WoL are essentially saying they want to play on a previous patch.

Saying you're gonna stay in WoL is the equivalent of saying you're going to keep playing patch 1.0.0 or what not...that's not how RTS works. You play the latest version of the game, and HOTS will be the latest version of the game.



Wait.... what??

I hope you mean that somewhat figuratively. They're going to have separate ladders for each expansion, as I'm sure you know... Playing WoL after HotS is more like playing Vanilla SC1 after BW, except imagine that Vanilla SC1 is not an incomplete mess of a competitive game.

Maybe you mean the community is going to shift to HotS? Well, yes of course, but people will still play WoL and Blizzard said they would continue to support it, and will continue to acknowledge it and support it as the primary game for as long as it takes them to un-break HotS balance and gameplay.

With the extreme probable differences between WoL and HotS I would say continuing on WoL is much different than picking say Patch 1.2.2 and starting up a private server to play it on.


Vanilla SC1 was most definitely an incomplete mess of a game.



But that defeats the point. Bliz acknowledges that there may be an issue, and are looking to fix it in HoTS, yet completely ignores it in the present (WoL).
scypio
Profile Joined December 2011
Poland2127 Posts
April 01 2012 07:50 GMT
#3445
On April 01 2012 15:07 Hetz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 03:41 XquisiteWretch wrote:
No statistical value? did you look at the statistics? lol

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/am/1/all


Korean terrans don't agree...


Go to a thread about GSL-level balance then. This is not it!

I want the game to be fun to play at all levels and I expect Blizzard to do something about it.
I play random | I like Hots | INnoVation | sOs | Tefel TOP1!
riff
Profile Joined December 2010
United States113 Posts
April 01 2012 08:06 GMT
#3446
On April 01 2012 15:42 WaKai wrote:
This thread should be closed, its going nowhere.

I would rather the game be balanced at the highest level, than for lower leagues. I understand, that it is hard for t players, myself being one. Terran, if controled perfectly is in fact op, simply because of the mechanics. The better the pros get, the more t needs to be nerfed, as they reach a new level of which the other races can't reach simply because of GAME DESIGN. Please, stop complaining, suck it up and play the game for what it is and know that you can always improve your micro, macro.
You won't be able to improve further by blaming somthing of which you cannot change. You think pro soccer, football, hockey etc players got as good as they did by blaming refs? Please smarten up and represent your race with pride.

On a more happy note, i'm so proued that mkp broke his curse :D

edit: yes broodwar terrans had more trouble in lower levels, for the same exact reason in sc2.


A discussion doesn't need to "go" anywhere. If the mods wanted to close the thread, it would have been closed long ago. As long as the thread doesn't descend into total anarchy, which it hasn't, there's no reason not to let non-GSL terrans discuss the challenges of playing Terran at a casual level and the relative scarcity of Terrans on the ladder. No one here is saying that Blizzard shouldn't balance the game for the highest levels. Nor is anyone saying that the game is unbalanced at the GSL level. I won't attempt to summarize the thread, because many Terrans better than I have already given their thoughts on the situation, but clearly you haven't read any of it with an open mind. Your suggested approach to "stop complaining, suck it up," is not constructive. You might as well just submit a "l2p" comment, in classic battle.net forum style.
There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. -Mazer Rackham
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
April 01 2012 08:22 GMT
#3447
You can raise the skill ceiling of Protoss and that would not affect pro level play
give.ViviD
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden235 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 08:32:35
April 01 2012 08:32 GMT
#3448
On April 01 2012 15:42 WaKai wrote:
This thread should be closed, its going nowhere.

I would rather the game be balanced at the highest level, than for lower leagues. I understand, that it is hard for t players, myself being one. Terran, if controled perfectly is in fact op, simply because of the mechanics. The better the pros get, the more t needs to be nerfed, as they reach a new level of which the other races can't reach simply because of GAME DESIGN. Please, stop complaining, suck it up and play the game for what it is and know that you can always improve your micro, macro.
You won't be able to improve further by blaming somthing of which you cannot change. You think pro soccer, football, hockey etc players got as good as they did by blaming refs? Please smarten up and represent your race with pride.

On a more happy note, i'm so proued that mkp broke his curse :D

edit: yes broodwar terrans had more trouble in lower levels, for the same exact reason in sc2.



Wait... so I should just stop hating TvP because it's such a volatile and boring matchup that is part guessing game and part masochistic suffering and just SUCK IT THE FUCK UP?

I play the game for what it is, with poorly designed races where on of them (guess which lol) has absolutely no dynamic mechanics and can't tweak shit in their gameplay. I get so saddened when i see posts like yours, you act like some goddamn all-knowing gurus who have the solution to everything. This thread would've been dead long ago and probably wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the fact that Terrans are actually quitting the game, at a NOTICABLE level. I mean hell, I gave up on terran a few days ago after having lost to blind 4-gate blink stalkers, proxy void rays and 55 minute TvTs and getting rolled by BL-Infestor.

Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
April 01 2012 08:34 GMT
#3449
On April 01 2012 16:50 scypio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 15:07 Hetz wrote:
On April 01 2012 03:41 XquisiteWretch wrote:
No statistical value? did you look at the statistics? lol

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/am/1/all


Korean terrans don't agree...


Go to a thread about GSL-level balance then. This is not it!

I want the game to be fun to play at all levels and I expect Blizzard to do something about it.

His arguement is valid for lowlevels: In Korean Terran is nowhere close to having less players than another race, from bronze-GM.
sc2ranks.com
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
April 01 2012 08:47 GMT
#3450
In KR GM is almost evenly distributed. In Master there are slightly more T than P but P is out performing T. In all the leagues below except Bronze P outnumbers and outperforms T. Z seems to be lacking significantly in KR outside of GM. Probably due to the metagame on KR/TW server.
LavaLava
Profile Joined January 2012
United States235 Posts
April 01 2012 08:48 GMT
#3451
On April 01 2012 15:54 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 15:15 LavaLava wrote:
On April 01 2012 10:38 avilo wrote:
On April 01 2012 09:16 Rowrin wrote:
what I want to see is how bliz will fix this issue in WoL. Forget HoTS, Bliz constantly says "oh we wont force anyone to play HoTS, we wont force a transition from WoL if everyone is content playing that."

Bliz admits there is a problem with chargelots vs Terran, that is their whole insentive for the battlehellion. Cool. One question, what is bliz going to do in WoL to fix a problem that they are "fixing" in HoTS?

Blizcon:

Protoss having problems vs mutas, in HoTS we'll introduce tempest. Meanwhile in WoL we'll buff phoenix's.

Terran having problems vs chargelots, HoTS we'll give you battlehellions. Good luck in the meantime tho.


I don't think you understand how RTS expansions work. Everyone will 100% be playing the new game because it's the newer version of the game. People still playing WoL are essentially saying they want to play on a previous patch.

Saying you're gonna stay in WoL is the equivalent of saying you're going to keep playing patch 1.0.0 or what not...that's not how RTS works. You play the latest version of the game, and HOTS will be the latest version of the game.




Wait.... what??

I hope you mean that somewhat figuratively. They're going to have separate ladders for each expansion, as I'm sure you know... Playing WoL after HotS is more like playing Vanilla SC1 after BW, except imagine that Vanilla SC1 is not an incomplete mess of a competitive game.

Maybe you mean the community is going to shift to HotS? Well, yes of course, but people will still play WoL and Blizzard said they would continue to support it, and will continue to acknowledge it and support it as the primary game for as long as it takes them to un-break HotS balance and gameplay.

With the extreme probable differences between WoL and HotS I would say continuing on WoL is much different than picking say Patch 1.2.2 and starting up a private server to play it on.


Vanilla SC1 was most definitely an incomplete mess of a game.



Yep. That's what I was saying.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
April 01 2012 08:54 GMT
#3452
I think you other terrans should just accept the match up as it is, even in BW terran was considered the Pro race. Where Protoss was considered a-move, starter, easy race. Terran is the more competitive, and difficult to play. Which is why you see a whole bunch of protoss foreigners. It's just a part of playing the game. That's why Protoss and Zerg player have never been leaders, but Terrans. We must accept our role and move on. And be courageous.

If you have korean ambition, play terran, if you don't play Protoss or Zerg.
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
April 01 2012 08:56 GMT
#3453
On April 01 2012 17:54 Blasterion wrote:
I think you other terrans should just accept the match up as it is, even in BW terran was considered the Pro race. Where Protoss was considered a-move, starter, easy race. Terran is the more competitive, and difficult to play. Which is why you see a whole bunch of protoss foreigners. It's just a part of playing the game. That's why Protoss and Zerg player have never been leaders, but Terrans. We must accept our role and move on. And be courageous.

If you have korean ambition, play terran, if you don't play Protoss or Zerg.


We are the few, the proud, the Terrans.
AlexanderDebois
Profile Joined October 2011
Kyrgyzstan38 Posts
April 01 2012 09:02 GMT
#3454
The discussion seems to have landed on the idea that though Terran is perfectly capable of winning in TvP at the highest level it is much harder at a lower one. While the latter statement may be true I do not think the former is. If you are watching GSL recently you will notice very few legitmate macro games against toss from terran. Although the MU is perhaps balanced, currently almost no GSL level terrans are risking their competitive life on macro games with toss when they regularly do it in the other two MUs. This alone should speak volumes about TvP at the highest level and will be more of an issue as the game develops and one and two base timings are gradually figured out.
NoctemSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States771 Posts
April 01 2012 09:04 GMT
#3455
On April 01 2012 17:54 Blasterion wrote:
I think you other terrans should just accept the match up as it is, even in BW terran was considered the Pro race. Where Protoss was considered a-move, starter, easy race. Terran is the more competitive, and difficult to play. Which is why you see a whole bunch of protoss foreigners. It's just a part of playing the game. That's why Protoss and Zerg player have never been leaders, but Terrans. We must accept our role and move on. And be courageous.

If you have korean ambition, play terran, if you don't play Protoss or Zerg.

I swear to god you had like 5k posts a few days ago o.O
http://www.twitch.tv/noctemsc <--Most epic fun times
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
April 01 2012 09:04 GMT
#3456
On April 01 2012 18:04 NoctemSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 17:54 Blasterion wrote:
I think you other terrans should just accept the match up as it is, even in BW terran was considered the Pro race. Where Protoss was considered a-move, starter, easy race. Terran is the more competitive, and difficult to play. Which is why you see a whole bunch of protoss foreigners. It's just a part of playing the game. That's why Protoss and Zerg player have never been leaders, but Terrans. We must accept our role and move on. And be courageous.

If you have korean ambition, play terran, if you don't play Protoss or Zerg.

I swear to god you had like 5k posts a few days ago o.O

I've had 9k for a while now Nya-hahahahahhaha
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
April 01 2012 09:07 GMT
#3457
On April 01 2012 17:47 SupLilSon wrote:

In KR GM is almost evenly distributed. In Master there are slightly more T than P but P is out performing T. In all the leagues below except Bronze P outnumbers and outperforms T. Z seems to be lacking significantly in KR outside of GM. Probably due to the metagame on KR/TW server.

Outperforming is a pretty harsh term, for things like 2% average point differences, especially when there are winrates given for Master league, which say 51,5% for Terran and the exact same number for Protoss.
Would be interesting to know what the difference is exactly, if it is metagame, it could be a great argument that Terrans dont need more skill to perform better, but are using the wrong builds in the west.Though I personally rather believe that there is just a reverse of racial popularity in Korea, why there are more Terrans there and why there are more Zergs here.
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
April 01 2012 09:07 GMT
#3458
On April 01 2012 17:22 Chaggi wrote:
You can raise the skill ceiling of Protoss and that would not affect pro level play

That's the point that's been brought up a couple of times already.
As of now protoss has a too easy time microing, maybe blizzard should make charge a spell like blink so it doesn't autocast and also make all the zealots attack the clostest target so you have to micro them and spread em out.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
April 01 2012 09:13 GMT
#3459
On April 01 2012 18:07 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 17:47 SupLilSon wrote:

In KR GM is almost evenly distributed. In Master there are slightly more T than P but P is out performing T. In all the leagues below except Bronze P outnumbers and outperforms T. Z seems to be lacking significantly in KR outside of GM. Probably due to the metagame on KR/TW server.

Outperforming is a pretty harsh term, for things like 2% average point differences, especially when there are winrates given for Master league, which say 51,5% for Terran and the exact same number for Protoss.
Would be interesting to know what the difference is exactly, if it is metagame, it could be a great argument that Terrans dont need more skill to perform better, but are using the wrong builds in the west.Though I personally rather believe that there is just a reverse of racial popularity in Korea, why there are more Terrans there and why there are more Zergs here.

Nah, Koreans are just more capable of using Terran, Terran is after all in both games, SC2 and BW to be considered the hardest race to play. While as Protoss is the easiest, (Relatively) It's really just a part of playing the game as the race, It will be more challenging for the Terran to win games than the other races, which doesn't exactly quote imbalance, but gives it the unique play style that is ....Terran. Just a part of playing the game, other terrans do have the option to switch to one of the easier race is they so do desire.
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
April 01 2012 09:14 GMT
#3460
On April 01 2012 18:07 decaf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 17:22 Chaggi wrote:
You can raise the skill ceiling of Protoss and that would not affect pro level play

That's the point that's been brought up a couple of times already.
As of now protoss has a too easy time microing, maybe blizzard should make charge a spell like blink so it doesn't autocast and also make all the zealots attack the clostest target so you have to micro them and spread em out.

Dont they do that already? (attacking the closest target)
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