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On April 01 2012 03:46 XquisiteWretch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 03:13 MMDollar wrote:
Herp derp my race is nerfed every patch herp derp not fun...lol really? :D I know that no one likes his class/race to be nerfed all the time but think about it, was it needed? from the GSL games we saw and other tournaments I think it was well deserved. Yeah because it is (maybe?) needed for the top .001% of players, means the rest of us have to adapt and play better? Kinda sounds tyrants ruling their people...
I mean, if they are balancing the game around the (top 100?) players doesnt that create some disparity for the tens of thousands of other people that play the game? What if those players they are balancing the game around have quirks or lapses in their game makes them OP or UP in certain scenarios (or maybe even just certain tournaments due to hangover, exhaustion, wife cheating on them, etc) but the mjority of players do not have issues with these scenarios? Blizz just says F it, no PTR, no discussion, knee jerk reaction nerfs, stupidity
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On April 01 2012 03:54 XquisiteWretch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 03:46 XquisiteWretch wrote:On April 01 2012 03:13 MMDollar wrote:
Herp derp my race is nerfed every patch herp derp not fun...lol really? :D I know that no one likes his class/race to be nerfed all the time but think about it, was it needed? from the GSL games we saw and other tournaments I think it was well deserved. Yeah because it is (maybe?) needed for the top .001% of players, means the rest of us have to adapt and play better? Kinda sounds tyrants ruling their people... I mean, if they are balancing the game around the (top 100?) players doesnt that create some disparity for the tens of thousands of other people that play the game? What if those players they are balancing the game around have quirks or lapses in their game makes them OP or UP in certain scenarios (or maybe even just certain tournaments due to hangover, exhaustion, wife cheating on them, etc) but the mjority of players do not have issues with these scenarios? Blizz just says F it, no PTR, no discussion, knee jerk reaction nerfs, stupidity
This has been my issue with balancing for the top few players on earth from the very beginning.
What about the people that Blizzard relies on to make money? The non-pro players that they need to convince to buy the expansions? I think it's just as important for Blizzard to make the game enjoyable for people of all levels.
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On April 01 2012 03:41 XquisiteWretch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 01:03 Hetz wrote:
Ladies, please.
I really don't understand why this thread trying to prove Terran UP is still up. There isn't one race harder then the other.
Saying 'I don't see Terrans on ladder anymore' has the same near to zero statistic value as my own impression of seeing lots of Terrans playing.
Even saying GSL Code S is 65% Terrans has no real value but still infinitively more then the OP's statement.
No race has left SC2...period. No statistical value? did you look at the statistics? lol http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/am/1/all
Seems legit.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yCMKy.png) 59% random in GM, also terran seems to be too OP to be in bronze
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The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already, if you are not willing to argue based upon data.
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On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already.
Protoss player spotted. Please read the thread.
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On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already.
Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch...
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On April 01 2012 04:38 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Protoss player spotted. Please read the thread.
If you look at his other responses in this thread, he'S talking out of his ass all the time. Totally biased and always bashing terran. The fact that he denies that terrans need more multitasking than toss speaks for itself
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On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch...
Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random.
And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder.
And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame.
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On April 01 2012 04:56 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random. And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder. And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame.
Maybe the Terran buffs alone didn't hurt Terran TOO much but at the same time Protoss and Zerg received a bunch of buffs. There's other small changes people don't notice much like PDD is a lot worse vs. mutas and broods. You can say people didn't use it, blah blah, but some people did, and having to adjust your strategy every few weeks because of nerfs, buffs, is taxing if you don't have the time to work out builds and practice a lot.
And you say most people didn't use ghosts, w/e, the thing is, for a lot of Terrans, most people didn't get much time/opportunity to practice with ghosts and incorporate them into their strategies before they got nerfed into dust.
Your lack of knowledge of Terran is painfully obvious in all your posts.
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On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch...
and every protoss has a problem early and midgame. so what?, deal with it
terran is already by designed, able to control both, early game, mid game and now you want even full lategame control?
the micro argument is laughable at best, you have got the most cost effective units, that why they have to have low hp, which ergo need to require more micro to get the most out of it.
if you don't this micro heavy play, than use different units with more hp and which are not as weak against splash.
you know you have 2 full techtrees with viable units if used right.
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On April 01 2012 05:03 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 04:56 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random. And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder. And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame. Maybe the Terran buffs alone didn't hurt Terran TOO much but at the same time Protoss and Zerg received a bunch of buffs. There's other small changes people don't notice much like PDD is a lot worse vs. mutas and broods. You can say people didn't use it, blah blah, but some people did, and having to adjust your strategy every few weeks because of nerfs, buffs, is taxing if you don't have the time to work out builds and practice a lot. And you say most people didn't use ghosts, w/e, the thing is, for a lot of Terrans, most people didn't get much time/opportunity to practice with ghosts and incorporate them into their strategies before they got nerfed into dust. Your lack of knowledge of Terran is painfully obvious in all your posts.
Do you actually believe what you are writing?
I mean, what forces a bigger adjustment? Huge metagame changes like double upgrade, infestor, roach/bling, immortal bust, warp prism, ultra rushes or the change of PDD, bunker or even the ghost?
If you had the time to adapt to the first, you will had no trouble adapting to the second. If you haven't adapted to the first, dont blame the second for struggling, because your opponents have simply improved more than you have and you should struggle really hard.
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Everyone other game I play is against Terran! They are everywhere, this is crazy. They are just really aggressive now, forget about trying any risky econ build vs T, they learned to play to their strengths!
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On April 01 2012 05:16 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... and every protoss has a problem early and midgame. so what?, deal with it terran is already by designed, able to control both, early game, mid game and now you want even full lategame control? the micro argument is laughable at best, you have got the most cost effective units, that why they have to have low hp, which ergo need to require more micro to get the most out of it. if you don't this micro heavy play, than use different units with more hp and which are not as weak against splash. you know you have 2 full techtrees with viable units if used right.
Oh look another idiot polluting the thread with his mindless garble, not even addressing the issues presented
User was warned for this post
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On April 01 2012 05:33 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 05:03 SupLilSon wrote:On April 01 2012 04:56 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random. And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder. And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame. Maybe the Terran buffs alone didn't hurt Terran TOO much but at the same time Protoss and Zerg received a bunch of buffs. There's other small changes people don't notice much like PDD is a lot worse vs. mutas and broods. You can say people didn't use it, blah blah, but some people did, and having to adjust your strategy every few weeks because of nerfs, buffs, is taxing if you don't have the time to work out builds and practice a lot. And you say most people didn't use ghosts, w/e, the thing is, for a lot of Terrans, most people didn't get much time/opportunity to practice with ghosts and incorporate them into their strategies before they got nerfed into dust. Your lack of knowledge of Terran is painfully obvious in all your posts. Do you actually believe what you are writing? I mean, what forces a bigger adjustment? Huge metagame changes like double upgrade, infestor, roach/bling, immortal bust, warp prism, ultra rushes or the change of PDD, bunker or even the ghost? If you had the time to adapt to the first, you will had no trouble adapting to the second. If you haven't adapted to the first, dont blame the second for struggling, because your opponents have simply improved more than you have and you should struggle really hard.
You have to be trolling at this point. wp
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On April 01 2012 05:36 TracedInAir wrote:
Everyone other game I play is against Terran! They are everywhere, this is crazy. They are just really aggressive now, forget about trying any risky econ build vs T, they learned to play to their strengths!
Are we playing on different ladders?
http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/am/1/all
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On April 01 2012 05:40 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 05:33 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 05:03 SupLilSon wrote:On April 01 2012 04:56 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random. And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder. And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame. Maybe the Terran buffs alone didn't hurt Terran TOO much but at the same time Protoss and Zerg received a bunch of buffs. There's other small changes people don't notice much like PDD is a lot worse vs. mutas and broods. You can say people didn't use it, blah blah, but some people did, and having to adjust your strategy every few weeks because of nerfs, buffs, is taxing if you don't have the time to work out builds and practice a lot. And you say most people didn't use ghosts, w/e, the thing is, for a lot of Terrans, most people didn't get much time/opportunity to practice with ghosts and incorporate them into their strategies before they got nerfed into dust. Your lack of knowledge of Terran is painfully obvious in all your posts. Do you actually believe what you are writing? I mean, what forces a bigger adjustment? Huge metagame changes like double upgrade, infestor, roach/bling, immortal bust, warp prism, ultra rushes or the change of PDD, bunker or even the ghost? If you had the time to adapt to the first, you will had no trouble adapting to the second. If you haven't adapted to the first, dont blame the second for struggling, because your opponents have simply improved more than you have and you should struggle really hard. You have to be trolling at this point. wp
basically, just ignore him and let him rant to his dog, maybe hell stop if we just pretend hes not here
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OMG, what a biased BigJ we have today. So Emp got 50% range reduction and u call it a "bit harder". What's next in your continuous zeal to derail this topic? Call terran early game OP and demand a nerf?
Why can't you avoid posting in this topic if all your posts are just trolling?
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On April 01 2012 05:40 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 05:33 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 05:03 SupLilSon wrote:On April 01 2012 04:56 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random. And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder. And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame. Maybe the Terran buffs alone didn't hurt Terran TOO much but at the same time Protoss and Zerg received a bunch of buffs. There's other small changes people don't notice much like PDD is a lot worse vs. mutas and broods. You can say people didn't use it, blah blah, but some people did, and having to adjust your strategy every few weeks because of nerfs, buffs, is taxing if you don't have the time to work out builds and practice a lot. And you say most people didn't use ghosts, w/e, the thing is, for a lot of Terrans, most people didn't get much time/opportunity to practice with ghosts and incorporate them into their strategies before they got nerfed into dust. Your lack of knowledge of Terran is painfully obvious in all your posts. Do you actually believe what you are writing? I mean, what forces a bigger adjustment? Huge metagame changes like double upgrade, infestor, roach/bling, immortal bust, warp prism, ultra rushes or the change of PDD, bunker or even the ghost? If you had the time to adapt to the first, you will had no trouble adapting to the second. If you haven't adapted to the first, dont blame the second for struggling, because your opponents have simply improved more than you have and you should struggle really hard. You have to be trolling at this point. wp
Out of arguements?
Btw I want to note here, that everyone but SupLilSon that responded to my posts on this page (very aggressivly) has <110 posts but seems to be just as active as I'm in this forum. What's up guys, got your main accounts banned for too much personal attacking?
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On April 01 2012 05:48 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 05:40 SupLilSon wrote:On April 01 2012 05:33 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 05:03 SupLilSon wrote:On April 01 2012 04:56 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random. And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder. And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame. Maybe the Terran buffs alone didn't hurt Terran TOO much but at the same time Protoss and Zerg received a bunch of buffs. There's other small changes people don't notice much like PDD is a lot worse vs. mutas and broods. You can say people didn't use it, blah blah, but some people did, and having to adjust your strategy every few weeks because of nerfs, buffs, is taxing if you don't have the time to work out builds and practice a lot. And you say most people didn't use ghosts, w/e, the thing is, for a lot of Terrans, most people didn't get much time/opportunity to practice with ghosts and incorporate them into their strategies before they got nerfed into dust. Your lack of knowledge of Terran is painfully obvious in all your posts. Do you actually believe what you are writing? I mean, what forces a bigger adjustment? Huge metagame changes like double upgrade, infestor, roach/bling, immortal bust, warp prism, ultra rushes or the change of PDD, bunker or even the ghost? If you had the time to adapt to the first, you will had no trouble adapting to the second. If you haven't adapted to the first, dont blame the second for struggling, because your opponents have simply improved more than you have and you should struggle really hard. You have to be trolling at this point. wp Out of arguements?
The original arguments were sufficient.
Even if you believe what you're writing, the fact you don't even mention the corresponding buffs to the other races makes your argument farcical. The one runner has a sprained ankle and the other one's given a 10 second head start... but sprains aren't that bad... right?
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On April 01 2012 05:48 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 05:40 SupLilSon wrote:On April 01 2012 05:33 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 05:03 SupLilSon wrote:On April 01 2012 04:56 Big J wrote:On April 01 2012 04:40 Greenei wrote:On April 01 2012 04:36 Big J wrote:
The Terran nerfs making Terran too weak for casuals is such a bullshit theory, that it really hurts reading it.
Since 1.3.0 there were 3 big changes for Terran
Thors - which nerfed a TvP strategy that caduals weren't even using a lot at that time because it was only showcased once or twice
Ghosts - which made TvP a bit harder, but not that much and the snipechange, something that nerfed a strategy that was not useful for everyone under master (and even there I have pretty much only seen 1-2players that were using it effectivly; a lot of people relied on vikings to begin with and most others simply sucked with ghosts compared to what the same investment in more tank/marine would have been able to do) to begin with.
All the other stuff? 5sec rax that gave zerg an extra drone vs 2rax, a little bit of bunker and stim research changes. nothing that would make gameplay harder, just nerfed some allins/timings very slightly.
If anything, please stick to bullshit like stutterstepping is too hard, but dont blame patches that had close to no impact on people that struggle with basic mechanics already. Are you fucking serious? The EMP change was huge. It made TvP lategame much harder. Also Snipe used to be a decent weapon against Broods. Do you even read the thread? Pretty much every Terran has problems with TvP lategame since the patch how can you be so ignorant not to see, that it JUST MIGHT BE because of the patch... Yes EMP was huge, but it basically just means you need to build 3more ghosts and EMP 3times more often - something that has absolutly no impact on casual lategame, because of the scrappy play that makes exact lategame counts already very random. And no, ghosts didnt help you at all vs broodlords, if you were not pretty good with unit control already. Against Ultras it was even harder. And another no, Terrans are not struggling since EMP vs Protoss. Terrans were still doing fine at that time, it's the double forge builds that people have trouble with in the lategame. Maybe the Terran buffs alone didn't hurt Terran TOO much but at the same time Protoss and Zerg received a bunch of buffs. There's other small changes people don't notice much like PDD is a lot worse vs. mutas and broods. You can say people didn't use it, blah blah, but some people did, and having to adjust your strategy every few weeks because of nerfs, buffs, is taxing if you don't have the time to work out builds and practice a lot. And you say most people didn't use ghosts, w/e, the thing is, for a lot of Terrans, most people didn't get much time/opportunity to practice with ghosts and incorporate them into their strategies before they got nerfed into dust. Your lack of knowledge of Terran is painfully obvious in all your posts. Do you actually believe what you are writing? I mean, what forces a bigger adjustment? Huge metagame changes like double upgrade, infestor, roach/bling, immortal bust, warp prism, ultra rushes or the change of PDD, bunker or even the ghost? If you had the time to adapt to the first, you will had no trouble adapting to the second. If you haven't adapted to the first, dont blame the second for struggling, because your opponents have simply improved more than you have and you should struggle really hard. You have to be trolling at this point. wp Out of arguements?
To say I was arguing with you would imply that you had somewhat though-out reasoning, points and or evidence. There was no argument, sorry bud.
"I mean, what forces a bigger adjustment? Huge metagame changes like double upgrade, infestor, roach/bling, immortal bust, warp prism, ultra rushes or the change of PDD, bunker or even the ghost?"
So basically what you're asking me is, "What forces a bigger adjustment? Huge Protoss and Zerg buffs like upgrade costs, infestor buff, tank nerf, immortal range increase, prism speed increase, ultra buff OR all the Terran nerfs?
Well, I'd have to say both, combined make a much bigger adjustment for Terran than for Zerg or Toss. Kinda the point of the thread. Something you seem to have ignored.
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EPT
