EPTWhere did all of the terrans go? - Page 123
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WaKai
Canada88 Posts
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
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HejaBVB
Germany125 Posts
If your units get caught in bad FFs = game over. If you don't saw the 6gate/8gate coming = game over! If you don't see the techswitch into colossi or templar = game over. I don't count the matches anymore, where I was sooo far ahead and the Toss just crushed me, because I hadn't enough Vikings/Ghosts or my Micro was just too bad (like it is always). The only games I can win against Toss is, when they go for gimicky builds like Colossi-Drop or Immortal-Drop - or if I 3 Rax, but thats boring and I feel guilty if I play 1 Base. For Toss its so much easier in. If his army gets crushed, he can survive most of the time cause of FFs. | ||
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:24 huehuehuehue wrote: Beastyqt vs Perfect TvP and PvT showmatch gogo? Beasty can go toe to toe with EU GMs with his offrace. No offense, but I've never even heard of Perfect and his post doesn't bode well for his Terran skills if he thinks 1 rax expo is 100% safe :D. It'd be as pointless as Avilo's example game of him off race stomping. | ||
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EienShinwa
United States655 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:43 EienShinwa wrote: Everyone acknowledges that Protoss is broken with its core mechanics. Back to Broodwar I go... Fixed IMO. Honestly Terran and Zerg are fine, but Protoss is a bit of a broken race. :\ Not fun to play against forcefields, and colossus are 1dimensional units without a role more than 'I own you with X unit unless you build Y unit, in which case they both die and we reset to before X and Y units were built'. Warpgate is also not a great mechanic. :\ It makes Terran Mech un-viable because if you use it with speed prisms and blinkstalkers against mech, you basically auto-win with good control. | ||
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Raambo11
United States828 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:26 WaKai wrote: @ the person who said that you have to warp in units on q is such bs. I played toss at master level then switched to t because toss was boring. All you do is defend for lategame, a move and storm. The warp in mechanic is FORGIVING. You see every protoss do this. They'll have 6 gateways, with forge and robo going on 2 base, YOU CANNOT SUPPORT THAT with perfect warp ins. Warp ins are meant for when you are being attacked, or see an attack comming. By having 4-5 sentrys full energy, by the time the attack hits, you'll have had 2-3 rounds of units extra. With good ff micro you delay and the 3-4th warp in mid battle. Agree 100%, IMO what it does is basically mean you don't need to macro during heavy multitasking moments. Most of the time you won't have the money to use all your gates at the same time anyways, so if your microing your army or w/e and start floating money, you can instanty dump all of it into your gateways as long as you have semi-decent macro. Its just a game design problem. Terran is the only race that basically cant massively dump the money they are floating after a fight, you will see Terran's die with a lot of money far more often than other races. Zerg of course can remax even faster than protoss, and if your floating 2k/2k you can dump that easy after a huge trade lategame. I always liked one idea I heard where you can que your units while maxed, and they will instantly pop out as soon as your not maxed and have the supply for said units. Kind of like a warp in, except thats its worse because you have to give up the money beforehand. However clever solutions like that would help a lot, its a shame blizzard seems to just use blanket nerfs like the snipe one instead of tweaking more carefully. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:58 Fencer710 wrote: Fixed IMO. Honestly Terran and Zerg are fine, but Protoss is a bit of a broken race. :\ Not fun to play against forcefields, and colossus are 1dimensional units without a role more than 'I own you with X unit unless you build Y unit, in which case they both die and we reset to before X and Y units were built'. Warpgate is also not a great mechanic. :\ It makes Terran Mech un-viable because if you use it with speed prisms and blinkstalkers against mech, you basically auto-win with good control. IMO the problems with warp tech extend far beyond just it's relationship with Mech. But honestly, the mechanic is so entrenched in SC2 already I don't see Blizzard taking any drastic measures to change it. They'll probably go on buffing/nerfing individual units as it seems Blizz really wants SC2 to revolve around strengths/weaknesses between units. idk | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
On March 23 2012 06:33 VTPerfect wrote: I think there is alot of bias in your assessment. Firstly Terran Units may require more baby sitting on average than Protoss units, but Terran macro mechanics are extremely easy and forgiving. Terran starts out with Detection as soon as the OC is made This makes Build Order loss due to lack of detection highly unlikely. If a Protoss player does the Parting build and Terran went Cloak Banshee, game over. You think the Terran deserved to win cause he blindly decided to gamble cloak? Terran economies are very hard to damage, Protoss has 20 probes vs 50 scvs? game over so badly its not even funny. Protoss has 50 probes to 20 SCV? Terran actually might just win. We've all seen in it. Another advantage Terran has over Protoss is the opening build order, If I know without a shadow of a doubt you are going to no gas 1 rax CC, there is nothing I can do to punish you. If I no gas Nexus and u do anything but no gas 1 rax fe or 1/1/1 im dead game over. Having to get detection in most of your games doesn't put Protoss behind at all. You have to account for the fact that most of the time Protoss players want to get a robo and an observer anyway. The Parting build is designed to be used against a gasless expansion and even if a Terran plays incredibly greedy and goes for cloak after this you can still come out ahead because he has a miniature ground army and your counter attack can do a lot of damage while you get detection. You think the Protoss deserves to get a free advantage cause he blindly decided to gamble a fast third without detection? Sorry to say but if you are really arguing that Terrans are able to come back when they are 30 workers behind you are full of shit. Show me a couple examples where that happens without horrible mistakes from the Protoss player. Also you have to always account for OCs when counting worker differences. If a player is 15 workers down but has 3 OCs his situations is obviously not as bad as it seems if you only look at the difference in workers. Why should there be a blind counter to a gasless fe? It would only make the game worse. There is no blind counter to a 1 gate expand neither. Protoss doesn't have to go nexus first to be even with a no gas 1 rax CC. Also there are a lot of ways to pressure or kill a Terran who goes for a fast expand(3/4/5/6 gate, 3gate voidray, blink all in, immortal bust). The equivalent of a nexus first would be a cc first which is a lot more flimsy. You could even turn around your argument and say: As a Terran I have to get gas to be able to punish a nexus first build a Protoss can scout and react accordingly to a CC first. On March 23 2012 06:33 VTPerfect wrote:I may be able to punish you if you went double gas factory off 1 rax CC but vs 1 rax CC 2 rax into double gas its safe vs everything. But there is no way ever for me to know which one you did because by the time an Obs or Hallu sees what you went the opening is closed where as your Scan mechanic as a good chance of identifying what tech tree im going which doubles as your hardly ever lose to cloak mechanic. Terran scouting is pretty bad until you can move out on the map around 10 minutes. To truly know what your opponent is doing you have to hit a lucky scan while a Protoss player gets map control with stalkers early against anything but a 2rax and has an obs in the terran base at around the 7 minute mark. So I have the same Problem against 1gate expand into quick collosus or anything like that. | ||
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:58 Fencer710 wrote: Fixed IMO. Honestly Terran and Zerg are fine, but Protoss is a bit of a broken race. :\ Not fun to play against forcefields, and colossus are 1dimensional units without a role more than 'I own you with X unit unless you build Y unit, in which case they both die and we reset to before X and Y units were built'. Warpgate is also not a great mechanic. :\ It makes Terran Mech un-viable because if you use it with speed prisms and blinkstalkers against mech, you basically auto-win with good control. And what race do you play? Zerg is very broken in TvZ. Bane + ling/roach allins are super easy to do and extremly hard to defend without super safe builds. And if zerg has 3base eco and hive tech its impossible to win. You need +10 siegetanks and marauders against ultras, but they are completely useless against broods. And even if you have "counter" = +10siege tanks and marauders against ultras, its still very hard to win, you need good positioning and you cant remake 10 sieges while zerg remakes 10 ultras and amoves again. And vikings against corruptor+brood+infestor, you mismicro once and all your vikigns are dead and you cant win anymore. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jA0R1.jpg) Hmm where did all the terrans go. -_- | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On March 23 2012 09:07 mishimaBeef wrote: Hmm where did all the terrans go. -_- Picking a tournament containing Code S Terrans where players are PICKED to play in. What a great example. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On March 23 2012 09:12 Resistentialism wrote: They picked the winning-est players in the world to go in their tourney? unfair I wouldn't say the winning-est players would exclude DRG, MC, Leenock. | ||
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fox77
Canada95 Posts
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On March 23 2012 09:07 mishimaBeef wrote: Hmm where did all the terrans go. -_- LOL, Loves the subtle sarcasim | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On March 23 2012 09:26 fox77 wrote: Part of the problem is due to the macro mechanics of the game the protoss can simply camp and have infinite units on one hot key which is absurd. Meanwhile the terran has to use various control groups and execute multiple drops which makes things easier for protoss the fact that the protoss can have all his on units one hot key is ridiculous this isn't a problem about balance the problem is the mechanics of the game makes it easier for protoss. name a quality protoss player that doesnt seperate his units into 3 control groups midagme to handle drops at main/3rd while keeping units at natural... In main engagements, sure its common to group because SC2 obviously hasn't required the need for many different control groups yet that people are using, but dont be stupid and dumb the race, its just as hard to handle 3 pronged attacks as it is to execute 3pronged attacks, if not harder due to unplanned reactions. | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On March 23 2012 09:39 OPL3SA2 wrote: IPL has 18 invited terrans let's see if there's a single terran in the finals I'd imagine, since terrans have probably won 50% or so of all major tournaments/leagues since release. Rough estimate? sure, but I'd imagine after GOMTvT and all the recent success its a good bet. | ||
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