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Unit Cost Effectiveness DPS HP Cost Table - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Ixess
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada13 Posts
March 07 2012 07:03 GMT
#21
dps*hp/cost/supply doesn't make any sense, but i added dps*hp/supply for when the restriction isn't cost but supply with maxed armies.

Also added alternating colors.
Everything has an optimal strategy
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
March 07 2012 07:06 GMT
#22
Man, why do they have to go and get rid of the thor in HOTS.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
March 07 2012 07:09 GMT
#23
Thors do the most overkill, which is yet another form of intricacy this graph can't capture.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
March 07 2012 07:14 GMT
#24
On March 07 2012 16:09 Resistentialism wrote:
Thors do the most overkill, which is yet another form of intricacy this graph can't capture.

no that is not it. It is because thors are expensive units and thus stack less as i mentioned in previous post.
Fym
Profile Joined October 2009
United Kingdom189 Posts
March 07 2012 07:28 GMT
#25
I thought artosis said carriers have the highest dps in game but according to your chart, the thor does.
If you wanna be a good chef, you dont make fish n chips.
eScaper-tsunami
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada313 Posts
March 07 2012 09:19 GMT
#26
On March 07 2012 16:03 Ixess wrote:
dps*hp/cost/supply doesn't make any sense, but i added dps*hp/supply for when the restriction isn't cost but supply with maxed armies.

Also added alternating colors.


On March 07 2012 16:02 Sea_Food wrote:
For people that dont know math, i would like to remind that the cheap units are actually alot better than in the table because they stack more. For example even thou queen has almost equal dh/c as zergling, 3 zerglings (75 min) still beat 1 queen (150 min) because their dps is three times higer when all lings aare still alive and two times higer when two lings are still around.


That's why dps*hp/cost/supply might make sense. Tyvm sea_food. On a side note, you left out immortal.
RuhRoh is my herO
Elefes
Profile Joined September 2011
Russian Federation164 Posts
March 07 2012 09:44 GMT
#27
Due to how armor works, you kinda need to add something that accounts base attack and base armor. I.e., high-dps units with fast cooldown, but moderate dmg per hit, are extremely vulnerable to armoder units (Marines vs. Ultras)
JakeBurton
Profile Joined October 2010
74 Posts
March 07 2012 09:54 GMT
#28
On March 07 2012 16:14 Sea_Food wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 16:09 Resistentialism wrote:
Thors do the most overkill, which is yet another form of intricacy this graph can't capture.

no that is not it. It is because thors are expensive units and thus stack less as i mentioned in previous post.


Honestly, I think the biggest issue with thor dps is that it has high shot damage and slow shots (and thus overkill) combined with the setup time between targeting a unit and firing the first shot. Thors do great dps against large targets but ridiculously bad dps when they have to switch targets multiple times in a fight.
Mooneyes
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden72 Posts
March 07 2012 10:09 GMT
#29
Ideas: Secondary dps wich includes the dps of units with bonus dmg when bonus dmg is aplicable.
Adding a cell to set the lvl of attack 0 1 2 3. Shoud be relatively easy if the sheet uses formulas.
Blatantly stolen: The Zerg: Protoss is soooo imbalanced. The Protoss: Zerg is soooo imbalanced. The Terran: I would like to thank all my friends and family for another GSL win. -GSL 2011
ArhK
Profile Joined July 2007
France287 Posts
March 07 2012 10:12 GMT
#30
I think in order for this sheet to be useful, you should factor in the range of each unit. Like a multiplier from each unit of range a unit gets. This way, it will more reflect the usefulness of unit ingame, aka Marines with their range against Speedling for example.
stingbear
Profile Joined May 2010
16 Posts
March 07 2012 10:22 GMT
#31
Why does lings have 0.5 supply? Don't they have 1 supply?
Ixess
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada13 Posts
March 07 2012 10:25 GMT
#32
On March 07 2012 18:19 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 16:03 Ixess wrote:
dps*hp/cost/supply doesn't make any sense, but i added dps*hp/supply for when the restriction isn't cost but supply with maxed armies.

Also added alternating colors.


Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 16:02 Sea_Food wrote:
For people that dont know math, i would like to remind that the cheap units are actually alot better than in the table because they stack more. For example even thou queen has almost equal dh/c as zergling, 3 zerglings (75 min) still beat 1 queen (150 min) because their dps is three times higer when all lings aare still alive and two times higer when two lings are still around.


That's why dps*hp/cost/supply might make sense. Tyvm sea_food. On a side note, you left out immortal.


Stacking isn't related to supply, its based on fitting more units in the same space.
supply is not a restriction, and so it does not make sense to divide by it.
Everything has an optimal strategy
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
March 07 2012 10:31 GMT
#33
I didn't find the Sentry in there.
CatNzHat
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1599 Posts
March 07 2012 10:31 GMT
#34
rauder vs armored, same with like stalker and other units with differing damage vs armor types
Could also probably include column with dps increase per attack upgrade
DeAnconia
Profile Joined August 2011
United States22 Posts
March 07 2012 10:37 GMT
#35
On March 07 2012 19:22 stingbear wrote:
Why does lings have 0.5 supply? Don't they have 1 supply?


Well, two of them have a combined 1 supply.
DOUDOU
Profile Joined October 2011
Wales2940 Posts
March 07 2012 10:40 GMT
#36
dps/buildtime would be interesting for me
Feast | Grubby | Mvp | Polt | Fantasy | Last | MMA | forGG | Leenock | Soberphano | Scarlett cutiepie
Deleuze
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom2102 Posts
March 07 2012 10:54 GMT
#37
On March 07 2012 15:28 OrchidThief wrote:
Battles aren't determined by dps*hp vs dps*hp. They're determined by effective dps*hp vs effective dps*hp (including armor as you note). This means you don't gain much real information from sheets like these. I did one of these when SC2 came out, and I realised that even then all the units that on paper looked like they were the most powerful, were sometimes not used due to entirely different reasons.

A more meaningful approach would be to include all the units secondary stats such as movement speed, surface area etc and make a stat called "usefulness" or something that weighs some of the secondary stats.


Yep, sadly this is a meaningless spreadsheet.

Micro is by far more determining factor for an engagement. After that it is positioning.

If you're doing 1a v 1a this *might* be useful.
“An image of thought called philosophy has been formed historically and it effectively stops people from thinking.” ― Gilles Deleuze, Dialogues II
Ixess
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada13 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-07 11:03:44
March 07 2012 11:02 GMT
#38
Added immortal and sentry, removed dps from meaningless units, and added dps/buildtime, and speed.
Also deleted slightly higher cost versions of archon.

If both players micro at the same skill level this is still fairly accurate(they will have similar total hp*dps and usage skill).
This is also very useful for few units micro in at least 2 ways. You can use percentages to factor in skill difference.
Or you can include all factors, which isn't that much usually, just regen,shields,time for each unit in battle, and focus.

Also you don't have to use it the way I suggest. There are build times, costs, speed, dps, and hp.
With all that you can do many more things. Use your imagination.
Everything has an optimal strategy
Exigaet
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada355 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-07 15:06:27
March 07 2012 15:02 GMT
#39
Where are you getting the numbers for Battlecruisers doing double the DPS than Carriers?

Carriers have 8 interceptors. Each Interceptor has 2 attacks dealing 5(+3) damage each, dealing 80(+48) damage between all 8 per wave, attacking at a fairly fast attack speed(forget the attack speed, someone else may know).

Battlecruisers do 8(+3) damage to ground and 6(+3) damage to air every 0.23 seconds.

KicKDoG
Profile Joined December 2003
Sweden765 Posts
March 07 2012 15:03 GMT
#40
yeah some units isn't added! O_O
http://www.twitter.com/KicKDoG_LoL baylife plox?
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