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On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
No we don't all take it for granted.
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On February 25 2012 05:29 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
No we don't all take it for granted.
Yeah, that's why I said "reasonable".
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On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
How is 10k unreasonable when tournaments are paying casters much more money than that? Exposure on TL brings in way more viewers than whatever casters they hire.
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500 new customers is not unrealistic at all,
asking 10k is though as that would be 100% of the revenu the hypothetical 500 people would bring in
It would be nice to have some numbers now, how much did tl ask and how much is mlg willing to pay?
*grabs popcorn*
let it just go to rest, noone is right and noone is wrong
Its just a business decission.
Its odd though that there have been no negotiations at all apearently.
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On February 25 2012 05:31 paintfive wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
How is 10k unreasonable when tournaments are paying casters much more money than that? Exposure on TL brings in way more viewers than whatever mediocre casters they hire.
Because TL know they can't ask for a price which won't be profitable for MLG, it's obvious. It's demand and supply 101. If they ask for 10k, they're basically saying "We'll send at least 500 new customers to MLG with a single calendar link". That number is totally unrealistic, so unless TL had a malicious intent (ie : they didn't WANT that event in the calendar), there is no way they asked for such a sumn.
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On February 25 2012 05:34 Rassy wrote:
500 new customers is not unrealistic at all,
asking 10k is though as that would be 100% of the revenu the hypothetical 500 people would bring in
It would be nice to have some numbers now, how much did tl ask and how much is mlg willing to pay?
*grabs popcorn*
let it just go to rest, noone is right and noone is wrong
Its just a business decission.
Its odd though that there have been no negotiations at all apearently.
Unless some new info was released, MLG just didn't want to pay anything. They were against it by principle. (which again is really funny and paradoxical)
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On February 25 2012 05:37 TheHansBecker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:35 MrCon wrote:
"We'll send at least 500 new customers to MLG with a single calendar link". That number is totally unrealistic, so unless TL had a malicious intent (ie : they didn't WANT that event in the calendar), there is no way they asked for such a sumn. Sources?
wtf. You ask me for a source when I do a reasoning. You can disagree, but asking for a source is like the dumbest thing you could do.
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On February 25 2012 05:31 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:29 Thorantham wrote:On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
No we don't all take it for granted. Yeah, that's why I said "reasonable".
We don't know if they were reasonable, we don't know the amount.
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On February 25 2012 05:23 Idra4Lyfe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:20 Akta wrote:On February 25 2012 05:10 Idra4Lyfe wrote:On February 25 2012 05:08 Akta wrote:On February 25 2012 05:03 Idra4Lyfe wrote:On February 25 2012 04:56 Calyeah wrote:On February 25 2012 04:45 Idra4Lyfe wrote:
The Justification is to help the members for TL know where events are going to be played... Put all the bull shit aside and figure out the only thing you are hindering is the members of this site... What other PPV streams have had to pay for the calendar spot? and why would anyone pay for a calendar spot. That is simply a reminder of an event that is happening not a direct advertisement for MLG or any other league. To pay for advertisement is one thing but to pay for a spot on a calendar is another. I have no problem with asking MLG for advertisement money if MLG was asking to be placed on the site with a banner or logo or anything like that. But to say we want money to put you on our calendar... come on. Let's use our brains, the calendar does not have any logos and is simply reminders for people that an event is happening on a certain day. Advertisement money is spent on advertising, ESPN does not ask MLB for money to advertise sporting events, and I am not comparing TL and MLG to ESPN and MLB just merely stating an example from another related area. Well a few things, firstly there haven't actually been any other PPV streams, this is the first time it has happened and it is up to TL how they deal with a PPV stream and their calendar. They are just showing that if you are a _pure_ PPV stream then you have to pay for what is a privilege to have your stream listed on a third party website. I also don't understand how a banner or logo is any different? Both these and appearing on the calendar would be a direct advertisement/link that this event is going on, sure the calendar might have slightly less pixel size, but speaking personally I pay more attention to the calendar than any banner when it comes to what streams or events are going on, and I am sure for the majority of users it is the same. As for "using our brains", I am perfectly capable of that, the calendar link would just redirect to a page that requires payment to watch, that is basically the same as any banner or logo you can think of, and would be a huge amount of free advertisement for a paid event. ok turn your head right... look at calendar... no logos or anything is on that calendar, not worth any money to be put on their, again going back to my no clickable links for ppv events. I have no doubt you are capable of using your brain, I question how people use it sometimes however. I just do not see a huge deal of why anyone would pay money to be placed on a calendar. However it is TL's choice to add an event to the calendar at their discretion but that can make people think and wonder... I can see how you think seeing MLG or ROG or any other event being put on a calendar is advertising, but in marketing the cost must fit the advertising spot, and the calendar in my eyes the way it is set up is not worth a dime. My $.02 It's obviously a form of stream calendar, not an "all sc2 events" calendar. Well you are correct it is not an all sc2 event calendar, meaning TL chooses what they put on it. It should be an all SC2 events calendar and yes I realize that could be hard to do but why not? Again the calendar is a tool to help the members of this community not profit from. That it should be something else isn't very relevant for this thread. Perhaps they should have another calendar where all lan events are listed regardless if there are streams or not or whatever but those discussions probably belong in the website feedback section. I felt that instead of just talking about which side is right I would give an alternate to both, a compromise if you will. If you feel this is not the right spot for this I must formally disagree, with the topics discussed in this thread I believe this was the perfect situation to type everything that I have. I would agree that it would be relevant as well in the feedback section but how much of that is actually read? like a suggestion box at work... LOL It wasn't a bad suggestion in my opinion but then it boils down to if it should change from being a stream list type of calendar to something else.
Personally I'm used to it being a stream calendar so I would probably keep it the way it is if it was up to me. But I wouldn't have anything against a pure all events calendar either.
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I'm okay with the PPV model choosen by MLG and I will pay to watch the games.
I'm also okay with the stance TL.net is taking. Listing links to PPV streams is nothing else than advertisement.
Keep up the good work TL staff, you're doing it right! 
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On February 25 2012 05:41 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:31 MrCon wrote:On February 25 2012 05:29 Thorantham wrote:On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
No we don't all take it for granted. Yeah, that's why I said "reasonable". We don't know if they were reasonable, we don't know the amount.
Of course we don't know. But, we know that in general, TL is a pretty reasonable organization with good decision making. That's why I said that, unless they especially wanted to deny MLG a calendar link, it's pretty safe to assume that that 10k number is bullshit. Because it would not be reasonable. But perhaps TL hates MLG for some reason and wants MLG to fail, it's possible.
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I always supported MLG by buying access to thier HQ streams. But I will not this time. Main reason is that while the esport of SC2 is trying to grow PPV is pulling it the other way. It was a hard choice to make, but I choose to not support the winter arena for this reason.
Best of luck to all the players and MLG.
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On February 25 2012 05:35 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:31 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
How is 10k unreasonable when tournaments are paying casters much more money than that? Exposure on TL brings in way more viewers than whatever mediocre casters they hire. Because TL know they can't ask for a price which won't be profitable for MLG, it's obvious. It's demand and supply 101. If they ask for 10k, they're basically saying "We'll send at least 500 new customers to MLG with a single calendar link". That number is totally unrealistic, so unless TL had a malicious intent (ie : they didn't WANT that event in the calendar), there is no way they asked for such a sumn.
TL can ask whatever price they want and MLG can in return ask for a different price. It's business 101. A spot on TL would refer much more than 500 customers. That's a tiny fraction of the traffic this site gets.
I dunno why some people are painting up TL and its staff as some SC2 mafia that pushes organizations around. It's business...
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On February 25 2012 05:48 paintfive wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:35 MrCon wrote:On February 25 2012 05:31 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
How is 10k unreasonable when tournaments are paying casters much more money than that? Exposure on TL brings in way more viewers than whatever mediocre casters they hire. Because TL know they can't ask for a price which won't be profitable for MLG, it's obvious. It's demand and supply 101. If they ask for 10k, they're basically saying "We'll send at least 500 new customers to MLG with a single calendar link". That number is totally unrealistic, so unless TL had a malicious intent (ie : they didn't WANT that event in the calendar), there is no way they asked for such a sumn. TL can ask whatever price they want and MLG can in return ask for a different price. It's business 101. A spot on TL would refer much more than 500 customers. That's a tiny fraction of the traffic this site gets. I dunno why some people are painting up TL and its staff as some SC2 mafia that pushes organizations around. It's business...
You think a TL link would bring more than 500 customers ? I'd love you to try some math at the problem. Claiming that 500 people (who have not already bought it) are willing to pay because they'll see this in the calendar is a pretty big assumption imo. Well if it's the case, that 10k price tag is justified.
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On February 25 2012 05:52 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:48 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:35 MrCon wrote:On February 25 2012 05:31 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
How is 10k unreasonable when tournaments are paying casters much more money than that? Exposure on TL brings in way more viewers than whatever mediocre casters they hire. Because TL know they can't ask for a price which won't be profitable for MLG, it's obvious. It's demand and supply 101. If they ask for 10k, they're basically saying "We'll send at least 500 new customers to MLG with a single calendar link". That number is totally unrealistic, so unless TL had a malicious intent (ie : they didn't WANT that event in the calendar), there is no way they asked for such a sumn. TL can ask whatever price they want and MLG can in return ask for a different price. It's business 101. A spot on TL would refer much more than 500 customers. That's a tiny fraction of the traffic this site gets. I dunno why some people are painting up TL and its staff as some SC2 mafia that pushes organizations around. It's business... You think a TL link would bring more than 500 customers ? I'd love you to try some math at the problem. Claiming that 500 people (who have not already bought it) are willing to pay because they'll see this in the calendar is a pretty big assumption imo. Well if it's the case, that 10k price tag is justified.
If you had a link to MLG arena and it was free, I estimate about 30 000 people would watch through the TL calendar links. So, if you did the same but had it as PPV assuming at least 500 of these would buy MLG is reasonable.
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Thanks HotBid for the thorough explanation. Definitely respect the consistency in your policy especially when governing a portal like TL.net. It would have been easy to make an exception for MLG here but would have set a bad precedent so it's totally understandable.
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On February 25 2012 05:58 Jaug wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:52 MrCon wrote:On February 25 2012 05:48 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:35 MrCon wrote:On February 25 2012 05:31 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
How is 10k unreasonable when tournaments are paying casters much more money than that? Exposure on TL brings in way more viewers than whatever mediocre casters they hire. Because TL know they can't ask for a price which won't be profitable for MLG, it's obvious. It's demand and supply 101. If they ask for 10k, they're basically saying "We'll send at least 500 new customers to MLG with a single calendar link". That number is totally unrealistic, so unless TL had a malicious intent (ie : they didn't WANT that event in the calendar), there is no way they asked for such a sumn. TL can ask whatever price they want and MLG can in return ask for a different price. It's business 101. A spot on TL would refer much more than 500 customers. That's a tiny fraction of the traffic this site gets. I dunno why some people are painting up TL and its staff as some SC2 mafia that pushes organizations around. It's business... You think a TL link would bring more than 500 customers ? I'd love you to try some math at the problem. Claiming that 500 people (who have not already bought it) are willing to pay because they'll see this in the calendar is a pretty big assumption imo. Well if it's the case, that 10k price tag is justified. If you had a link to MLG arena and it was free, I estimate about 30 000 people would watch through the TL calendar links. So, if you did the same but had it as PPV assuming at least 500 of these would buy MLG is reasonable.
30K people who would not otherwise be watching it. Really? Like, honestly? To put that in perspective, the English stream of ASUS ROG currently has 31K people watching it.
That's absurd.
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On February 25 2012 05:52 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 05:48 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:35 MrCon wrote:On February 25 2012 05:31 paintfive wrote:On February 25 2012 05:27 MrCon wrote:
10k is obviously unreasonable, and I hope we can all take for granted that TL as an entity is a reasonable one.
For TL to ask for 10k, they would have to think they'll send way more than 500 new customers to MLG, which is a totally unrealistic number. So the only reason TL would ask 10k if if the specifically had something against MLG and purposely set up such a high price that they'd knew MLG would not pay. Again, I think we can give credit to TL and acknowledging that this is not a very probable scenario.
How is 10k unreasonable when tournaments are paying casters much more money than that? Exposure on TL brings in way more viewers than whatever mediocre casters they hire. Because TL know they can't ask for a price which won't be profitable for MLG, it's obvious. It's demand and supply 101. If they ask for 10k, they're basically saying "We'll send at least 500 new customers to MLG with a single calendar link". That number is totally unrealistic, so unless TL had a malicious intent (ie : they didn't WANT that event in the calendar), there is no way they asked for such a sumn. TL can ask whatever price they want and MLG can in return ask for a different price. It's business 101. A spot on TL would refer much more than 500 customers. That's a tiny fraction of the traffic this site gets. I dunno why some people are painting up TL and its staff as some SC2 mafia that pushes organizations around. It's business... You think a TL link would bring more than 500 customers ? I'd love you to try some math at the problem. Claiming that 500 people (who have not already bought it) are willing to pay because they'll see this in the calendar is a pretty big assumption imo. Well if it's the case, that 10k price tag is justified.
You really have nothing to base any numbers on. You're just skeptical about 500 because how little you know.
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EPT
