On February 23 2012 03:05 anotherone wrote: Endless Terran nerfing continiues..
Maybe lets create a contest where poeple will be guessing another Terran nerfs in new patch?
Either:
Most cost-efficient unit in the game now costs 20% more to make (60 minerals total).
or
Repairing your Planetrary Fortress adds Guilty Conscience penalty for Terran player (3 GCs and you must gg from the game).
But in all seriousness, if Terran keeps winning, what do you expect? It would be nice to somehow balance the early, mid, and late games evenly for all races, but I don't know if Blizzard knows how to do that (sadly). All they seem to be doing instead is looking at the end results... and Terran consistently beats the other two races, according to the data (not by too too much, as we're pretty close to balance by now) and the GSLs speak for themselves.
I'm hoping that blizzard will release hots asap, and make zerg and protoss as deep as Terran, so everything will be equally hard /wishful thinking
Droning, making hatches and scouting is fun, but i would love to see some more depth thrown into equation, so sc2 maybe will see savior esque play some day.
On February 22 2012 22:33 PureBalls wrote: Terrans just keep coming. 5 out of 6 advance in todays Code A matches, and the one that didnt, was eliminated in a TvT. Not even one protoss wins his PvT. And the one zerg also lost his ZvT.
QQ can now stop.
ggyo
patch hasn't hit in korea bro. nice try tho
To be fair, the patch won't really be affecting TvP that much, as the phoenix change is essentially for PvZ and the ghost change primarily affects TvZ.
Today was definitely a day to be happy if you're Terran.
not really, because the protoss/zerg players threw away their games with huge blunders. There wasn't really anything to learn from that other than the fact, that you might win a game if your opponent totally messes up. And aditionally we didn't see that much lategame TvZ and TvP, so these games have really not much of a stand in this discussion here.
And terrans were playing perfectly, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Give me a break. Terrans have 0 problems in both MUs.
I don't understand when people post these kind of generalized, biased-as-hell blanket statements. Either you are just pissed off that you have trouble with terran (I am the same vs zerg) or you have only seen AI matches. Come on, man.
On February 23 2012 03:05 anotherone wrote: Endless Terran nerfing continiues..
Maybe lets create a contest where poeple will be guessing another Terran nerfs in new patch?
Either:
Most cost-efficient unit in the game now costs 20% more to make (60 minerals total).
or
Repairing your Planetrary Fortress adds Guilty Conscience penalty for Terran player (3 GCs and you must gg from the game).
But in all seriousness, if Terran keeps winning, what do you expect? It would be nice to somehow balance the early, mid, and late games evenly for all races, but I don't know if Blizzard knows how to do that (sadly). All they seem to be doing instead is looking at the end results... and Terran consistently beats the other two races, according to the data (not by too too much, as we're pretty close to balance by now) and the GSLs speak for themselves.
At least release a statement that they are aware of the design flaws and try to fix them with the expansion(s) . I'd be happy with this tbh.
I think Dustin Browder and David Kim are pretty candid with their responses whenever directly asked questions (e.g. interviews)... but I doubt that they'd release an in-depth statement out of the goodness of their hearts that they're fucking up lol.
Of course, it would be nice to know that they're actually working on making some changes so that we can have overall balance at all (and by "all", I mean "as many as possible") points in the game. I suppose these problems have been brought to their attention many times by players (although, obviously, they should already know about them through their research).
On February 22 2012 22:33 PureBalls wrote: Terrans just keep coming. 5 out of 6 advance in todays Code A matches, and the one that didnt, was eliminated in a TvT. Not even one protoss wins his PvT. And the one zerg also lost his ZvT.
QQ can now stop.
ggyo
patch hasn't hit in korea bro. nice try tho
To be fair, the patch won't really be affecting TvP that much, as the phoenix change is essentially for PvZ and the ghost change primarily affects TvZ.
Today was definitely a day to be happy if you're Terran.
not really, because the protoss/zerg players threw away their games with huge blunders. There wasn't really anything to learn from that other than the fact, that you might win a game if your opponent totally messes up. And aditionally we didn't see that much lategame TvZ and TvP, so these games have really not much of a stand in this discussion here.
And terrans were playing perfectly, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Give me a break. Terrans have 0 problems in both MUs.
I don't understand when people post these kind of generalized, biased-as-hell blanket statements. Either you are just pissed off that you have trouble with terran (I am the same vs zerg) or you have only seen AI matches. Come on, man.
Found this nice little sandbox demonstration video fhe Phoenix upgrade in action vs. Mutas.
Long story short: the difference in unmicroed upgraded phoenixes vs microed upgraded phoenixes is noticable but fairly small. But when you actually attempt to micro them both, the difference is huge--the normal Phoenixes still die quite quickly even with active micro, but the upgraded Phoenixes can kite continuously while taking next to no damage, and since they aren't taking losses they just mow through the muta ball at a really high rate (skip to 2:45 in the video to see what happens with even basic micro when you use upgrades phoenixes vs mutas).
Is there anyone who still doubts the impact this will have?
100% useless if you don't open double Stargate.
And if you do, then the Zerg makes two infestors and you lose all your phoenix to chain fungals x.x
Although it's nice to know that killing off mutas could hypothetically be that easy (regarding the upgraded phoenix micro video) if I wanted to be tech-trapped into using Protoss air only x.x
I'll probably be sticking to blink + storm to counter mutas.
While chain fungals do suck I've been trying something I saw from MVPGenius a while ago and which Artosis has done here and there on his stream.
Basically, you open with void ray 3 gate +1 zealot timing of an FFE. After the first void ray you make 2 pheonixes which allow you to scout the main and natural of the zerg for gas timings and lair timing. If you see that they are on 2 base you can control the map with the void ray and kill outlying overlords. You can make about 6 pheonixes and take a 3rd base while teching slowly to storm if you see a spire. The nice thing about this 6 pheonix base is that even without the air upgrade you can leave stalkers in the main and nat and your pheonixes at the third building base with zealots. If the opponent tries to harass with a small number of mutas you can quickly send the pheonixes to help the stalkers defend. If for whatever the zerg loses enough mutas that you have similar pheonix numbers you can chase the mutalisks until they get to a more well defended position damaging them quite a bit or killing a few since they will not have infestors with fungal fast enough to punish you. If you see the muta ball continue to grow you now have the option of getting the air upgrade and moving up to about 10 pheonixes while taking a fourth base since all their gas is in mutas and you can make zealots to kill the lings that would counter.
Genius then transitions into collossi just 2 or 3 with range to help kill the lings or hydras that the opponent could transition towards.
I think the air upgrade will be useful for people who open stargate in order to punish players for engaging poorly or massing mutalisks as their main damage output. With 8-10 ranged pheonix I think we will also see far fewer cases of ridiculous base trades between Zerg players and Protoss players.
I personally feel that this solution is still a lot better than getting a fleet beacon to get a tempest which is even more situational than the carrier is and removing the carrier in HotS.
Let us not also forget that as long as you are careful you can harass mineral lines with pheonixes. Should you take for example 10 and hit one base? No thats dumb. What if you take 5 of them and lift drones at the Z fourth while using a Warp prism in the main or DTs somewhere else? A lot of us have seen how useful the HerO style can be with prisms and DTs, but to mix this with a small group of pheonix after you send the melee units in could be extremely nice AND you can always keep about 4 or 5 pheonix around to discourage a late game muta switch or remax when the banks are huge after an army trade.
The upgrade could also be really useful against sky terran since the range difference between pheonix and vikings meant vikings got a first shot in at every engagement and if the phoenix try to escape the vikings also get an extra hit in. Against sky terran pheonix are useful and if you are getting +2 attack or armour you need the fleet beacon anyway. I feel that there are a lot of possibilities but people are really just focusing on the theres 40 mutas out on the field how does making pheonix now and investing in the range tech now help you later when infestors are out.
We don't need to focus on just PvZ and we don't need to keep 10 phoenix together at all times against a zerg who gets infestors. We are also ignoring the timings between when zerg has 20 mutas and when they have enough infestors with enough energy to chain fungal all your pheonix at once if they are clumped.
Zerg here, if I see freakin void rays and 6 phoenixes before spire is done (which is probable in your situation) I'm just going to tech to hydras, cancel spire, and then kill you with ling/hydra lol. Or just go infestors. They're pretty good.
Also to your mass harass style with Prisms, DT, Phoenixes etc, that's... a lot of tech. Like, A LOT of tech: robo WITH robo bay for WP speed, stargate, and then you have to tech all the way to Dark Shrine. That's a lot of money not going into, say, an army. Or sentries. Too fancy, I could just 'tech' to roaches w/ burrow and tunneling claws and kill you by the time you get 2 out of the 3 things you need.
Honestly, the best way to defend vs mass muta is either a) be Korean and kill him with a timing attack, or b) storms, archons, blink stalkers. Although what I'd like to see one Toss do one game is basically do an archon toilet, but for mutas. Just keep a mothership and 3 or so archons (IIRC 3 archons one shot a muta) in your base, be gosu and land a vortex, boom, muta problem solved.
Too situational, I know, but it's still something I want to see because it sounds AWESOME.
On February 23 2012 02:00 naut1c wrote: Why is every terran whining about late game vs Z now. try out seeker missiles. its imba. spread your vikings. emp infestors
Boy, I sure love spending 400 gas plus getting 2 upgrades and still having to wait for energy to charge so that I can kill 1 brood lord, assuming my range 3 spells land without me getting shot first. Plus, when teh ultra switch comes, I can spend 1000 gas per ultra, assuming I have teh energy!
WHAT? You should have a raven in mid-game every single TvZ. a few more Ravens, is not that big of a deal in late game. you should have 4-5 base by that time anyways. Broods cost much more in that regard. if you also have a bunch of thors, ghosts and vikings, this combo gets unbeatable. you can emp infestors, also snipe is still very strong. Your thors also hit the broods and deal slight damage. Vikings if spread out, cannot be fungled to death. Broods are very immobile, you can drop or do multiprone attacks. You can try to snipe his Tech-buildings. Later in the game you start to build PFs to protect your bases, and sacrifice scvs to free supply. Please, don't tell me its imba. If you macro well, i think Terran still has the advantage on the highest skill level.
On February 23 2012 02:00 naut1c wrote: Why is every terran whining about late game vs Z now. try out seeker missiles. its imba. spread your vikings. emp infestors
Boy, I sure love spending 400 gas plus getting 2 upgrades and still having to wait for energy to charge so that I can kill 1 brood lord, assuming my range 3 spells land without me getting shot first. Plus, when teh ultra switch comes, I can spend 1000 gas per ultra, assuming I have teh energy!
WHAT? You should have a raven in mid-game every single TvZ. a few more Ravens, is not that big of a deal in late game. you should have 4-5 base by that time anyways. Broods cost much more in that regard. if you also have a bunch of thors, ghosts and vikings, this combo gets unbeatable. you can emp infestors, also snipe is still very strong. Your thors also hit the broods and deal slight damage. Vikings if spread out, cannot be fungled to death. Broods are very immobile, you can drop or do multiprone attacks. You can try to snipe his Tech-buildings. Later in the game you start to build PFs to protect your bases, and sacrifice scvs to free supply. Please, don't tell me its imba. If you macro well, i think Terran still has the advantage on the highest skill level.
"you should always have 1 raven in midgame" said the noname from the internet against pretty much every gsl-pro of today...
On February 23 2012 02:00 naut1c wrote: Why is every terran whining about late game vs Z now. try out seeker missiles. its imba. spread your vikings. emp infestors
Boy, I sure love spending 400 gas plus getting 2 upgrades and still having to wait for energy to charge so that I can kill 1 brood lord, assuming my range 3 spells land without me getting shot first. Plus, when teh ultra switch comes, I can spend 1000 gas per ultra, assuming I have teh energy!
WHAT? You should have a raven in mid-game every single TvZ. a few more Ravens
Except—unless going mech, and even then it's only sometimes—no one has a Raven in mid-game in TvZ? And I mean, really no one.
Found this nice little sandbox demonstration video fhe Phoenix upgrade in action vs. Mutas.
Long story short: the difference in unmicroed upgraded phoenixes vs microed upgraded phoenixes is noticable but fairly small. But when you actually attempt to micro them both, the difference is huge--the normal Phoenixes still die quite quickly even with active micro, but the upgraded Phoenixes can kite continuously while taking next to no damage, and since they aren't taking losses they just mow through the muta ball at a really high rate (skip to 2:45 in the video to see what happens with even basic micro when you use upgrades phoenixes vs mutas).
Is there anyone who still doubts the impact this will have?
100% useless if you don't open double Stargate.
And if you do, then the Zerg makes two infestors and you lose all your phoenix to chain fungals x.x
Although it's nice to know that killing off mutas could hypothetically be that easy (regarding the upgraded phoenix micro video) if I wanted to be tech-trapped into using Protoss air only x.x
I'll probably be sticking to blink + storm to counter mutas.
While chain fungals do suck I've been trying something I saw from MVPGenius a while ago and which Artosis has done here and there on his stream.
Basically, you open with void ray 3 gate +1 zealot timing of an FFE. After the first void ray you make 2 pheonixes which allow you to scout the main and natural of the zerg for gas timings and lair timing. If you see that they are on 2 base you can control the map with the void ray and kill outlying overlords. You can make about 6 pheonixes and take a 3rd base while teching slowly to storm if you see a spire. The nice thing about this 6 pheonix base is that even without the air upgrade you can leave stalkers in the main and nat and your pheonixes at the third building base with zealots. If the opponent tries to harass with a small number of mutas you can quickly send the pheonixes to help the stalkers defend. If for whatever the zerg loses enough mutas that you have similar pheonix numbers you can chase the mutalisks until they get to a more well defended position damaging them quite a bit or killing a few since they will not have infestors with fungal fast enough to punish you. If you see the muta ball continue to grow you now have the option of getting the air upgrade and moving up to about 10 pheonixes while taking a fourth base since all their gas is in mutas and you can make zealots to kill the lings that would counter.
Genius then transitions into collossi just 2 or 3 with range to help kill the lings or hydras that the opponent could transition towards.
I think the air upgrade will be useful for people who open stargate in order to punish players for engaging poorly or massing mutalisks as their main damage output. With 8-10 ranged pheonix I think we will also see far fewer cases of ridiculous base trades between Zerg players and Protoss players.
I personally feel that this solution is still a lot better than getting a fleet beacon to get a tempest which is even more situational than the carrier is and removing the carrier in HotS.
Let us not also forget that as long as you are careful you can harass mineral lines with pheonixes. Should you take for example 10 and hit one base? No thats dumb. What if you take 5 of them and lift drones at the Z fourth while using a Warp prism in the main or DTs somewhere else? A lot of us have seen how useful the HerO style can be with prisms and DTs, but to mix this with a small group of pheonix after you send the melee units in could be extremely nice AND you can always keep about 4 or 5 pheonix around to discourage a late game muta switch or remax when the banks are huge after an army trade.
The upgrade could also be really useful against sky terran since the range difference between pheonix and vikings meant vikings got a first shot in at every engagement and if the phoenix try to escape the vikings also get an extra hit in. Against sky terran pheonix are useful and if you are getting +2 attack or armour you need the fleet beacon anyway. I feel that there are a lot of possibilities but people are really just focusing on the theres 40 mutas out on the field how does making pheonix now and investing in the range tech now help you later when infestors are out.
We don't need to focus on just PvZ and we don't need to keep 10 phoenix together at all times against a zerg who gets infestors. We are also ignoring the timings between when zerg has 20 mutas and when they have enough infestors with enough energy to chain fungal all your pheonix at once if they are clumped.
Zerg here, if I see freakin void rays and 6 phoenixes before spire is done (which is probable in your situation) I'm just going to tech to hydras, cancel spire, and then kill you with ling/hydra lol. Or just go infestors. They're pretty good.
Also to your mass harass style with Prisms, DT, Phoenixes etc, that's... a lot of tech. Like, A LOT of tech: robo WITH robo bay for WP speed, stargate, and then you have to tech all the way to Dark Shrine. That's a lot of money not going into, say, an army. Or sentries. Too fancy, I could just 'tech' to roaches w/ burrow and tunneling claws and kill you by the time you get 2 out of the 3 things you need.
Honestly, the best way to defend vs mass muta is either a) be Korean and kill him with a timing attack, or b) storms, archons, blink stalkers. Although what I'd like to see one Toss do one game is basically do an archon toilet, but for mutas. Just keep a mothership and 3 or so archons (IIRC 3 archons one shot a muta) in your base, be gosu and land a vortex, boom, muta problem solved.
Too situational, I know, but it's still something I want to see because it sounds AWESOME.
How would you see 6 pheonixes before your spire finishes? I will also be scouting more than once for the spire. If its just started ill check again within the next minute to make sure its still there.
Im also not doing mass harass style for the whole game straight through off 2 or even 3 base. Its something you do as your army grows larger If you watch almost any HerO lategame PvZ hes always harassing somewhere while taking bases. Is the Genius approach the only approach to dealing with mutalisks? No not at all. Is it Viable yeah it is.
Also the only reason archon toilets do so well against broodlords is because the broodlords have a low movement speed and dont spread so they take a lot of damage whereas mutas split more quickly so they dont take anywhere near as much damage.
On February 22 2012 22:33 PureBalls wrote: Terrans just keep coming. 5 out of 6 advance in todays Code A matches, and the one that didnt, was eliminated in a TvT. Not even one protoss wins his PvT. And the one zerg also lost his ZvT.
QQ can now stop.
ggyo
patch hasn't hit in korea bro. nice try tho
To be fair, the patch won't really be affecting TvP that much, as the phoenix change is essentially for PvZ and the ghost change primarily affects TvZ.
Today was definitely a day to be happy if you're Terran.
not really, because the protoss/zerg players threw away their games with huge blunders. There wasn't really anything to learn from that other than the fact, that you might win a game if your opponent totally messes up. And aditionally we didn't see that much lategame TvZ and TvP, so these games have really not much of a stand in this discussion here.
And terrans were playing perfectly, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Give me a break. Terrans have 0 problems in both MUs.
I don't understand when people post these kind of generalized, biased-as-hell blanket statements. Either you are just pissed off that you have trouble with terran (I am the same vs zerg) or you have only seen AI matches. Come on, man.
It's a fact that Terran is still doing way better than either Zerg or Protoss. Sure there's less Terran on ladder, but the general conception of Terran by the community is that it's a race with cheap early game wins and little late game potential. And people probably don't like to play a race that they feel is cheap.
On February 23 2012 02:00 naut1c wrote: Why is every terran whining about late game vs Z now. try out seeker missiles. its imba. spread your vikings. emp infestors
Boy, I sure love spending 400 gas plus getting 2 upgrades and still having to wait for energy to charge so that I can kill 1 brood lord, assuming my range 3 spells land without me getting shot first. Plus, when teh ultra switch comes, I can spend 1000 gas per ultra, assuming I have teh energy!
WHAT? You should have a raven in mid-game every single TvZ. a few more Ravens
Except—unless going mech, and even then it's only sometimes—no one has a Raven in mid-game in TvZ? And I mean, really no one.
Because at the point it does nothing in TvZ , litterally 0 use. I mean you could use it like an overseer if he has no Mutas but other then that they do nothing but cost 200 gas and look funny. Ravens have no synergy with Bio whatsoever .
And how the hell do you manage to easily take 4-5 bases with Mech without beeing harassed to death.
hmm i play today like 6 ZvP , as zerg and win 5 of them with pure mutas/lings.., was prepered for phenix build ( making 4 corruptors.) but they never come. Toss players still prefere to use blink stalkers vs mutas ? Like this patch , but once i have Sc2 crash at loading screen.. never had it before ( im playing from beta)
The problem with higher level toss players is that they are lazy and just crutch on the fact that if they make it to lategame v T they pretty much get the win. This is why a player such as MC, who is brutal with midgame aggression, can win a gsl, yet nobody else has done the same. Good terrans have adapted their playstyles so many times over and figured out unique ways to win games while most tosses just stick to the script.
Found this nice little sandbox demonstration video fhe Phoenix upgrade in action vs. Mutas.
Long story short: the difference in unmicroed upgraded phoenixes vs microed upgraded phoenixes is noticable but fairly small. But when you actually attempt to micro them both, the difference is huge--the normal Phoenixes still die quite quickly even with active micro, but the upgraded Phoenixes can kite continuously while taking next to no damage, and since they aren't taking losses they just mow through the muta ball at a really high rate (skip to 2:45 in the video to see what happens with even basic micro when you use upgrades phoenixes vs mutas).
Is there anyone who still doubts the impact this will have?
100% useless if you don't open double Stargate.
And if you do, then the Zerg makes two infestors and you lose all your phoenix to chain fungals x.x
Although it's nice to know that killing off mutas could hypothetically be that easy (regarding the upgraded phoenix micro video) if I wanted to be tech-trapped into using Protoss air only x.x
I'll probably be sticking to blink + storm to counter mutas.
While chain fungals do suck I've been trying something I saw from MVPGenius a while ago and which Artosis has done here and there on his stream.
Basically, you open with void ray 3 gate +1 zealot timing of an FFE. After the first void ray you make 2 pheonixes which allow you to scout the main and natural of the zerg for gas timings and lair timing. If you see that they are on 2 base you can control the map with the void ray and kill outlying overlords. You can make about 6 pheonixes and take a 3rd base while teching slowly to storm if you see a spire. The nice thing about this 6 pheonix base is that even without the air upgrade you can leave stalkers in the main and nat and your pheonixes at the third building base with zealots. If the opponent tries to harass with a small number of mutas you can quickly send the pheonixes to help the stalkers defend. If for whatever the zerg loses enough mutas that you have similar pheonix numbers you can chase the mutalisks until they get to a more well defended position damaging them quite a bit or killing a few since they will not have infestors with fungal fast enough to punish you. If you see the muta ball continue to grow you now have the option of getting the air upgrade and moving up to about 10 pheonixes while taking a fourth base since all their gas is in mutas and you can make zealots to kill the lings that would counter.
Genius then transitions into collossi just 2 or 3 with range to help kill the lings or hydras that the opponent could transition towards.
I think the air upgrade will be useful for people who open stargate in order to punish players for engaging poorly or massing mutalisks as their main damage output. With 8-10 ranged pheonix I think we will also see far fewer cases of ridiculous base trades between Zerg players and Protoss players.
I personally feel that this solution is still a lot better than getting a fleet beacon to get a tempest which is even more situational than the carrier is and removing the carrier in HotS.
Let us not also forget that as long as you are careful you can harass mineral lines with pheonixes. Should you take for example 10 and hit one base? No thats dumb. What if you take 5 of them and lift drones at the Z fourth while using a Warp prism in the main or DTs somewhere else? A lot of us have seen how useful the HerO style can be with prisms and DTs, but to mix this with a small group of pheonix after you send the melee units in could be extremely nice AND you can always keep about 4 or 5 pheonix around to discourage a late game muta switch or remax when the banks are huge after an army trade.
The upgrade could also be really useful against sky terran since the range difference between pheonix and vikings meant vikings got a first shot in at every engagement and if the phoenix try to escape the vikings also get an extra hit in. Against sky terran pheonix are useful and if you are getting +2 attack or armour you need the fleet beacon anyway. I feel that there are a lot of possibilities but people are really just focusing on the theres 40 mutas out on the field how does making pheonix now and investing in the range tech now help you later when infestors are out.
We don't need to focus on just PvZ and we don't need to keep 10 phoenix together at all times against a zerg who gets infestors. We are also ignoring the timings between when zerg has 20 mutas and when they have enough infestors with enough energy to chain fungal all your pheonix at once if they are clumped.
Zerg here, if I see freakin void rays and 6 phoenixes before spire is done (which is probable in your situation) I'm just going to tech to hydras, cancel spire, and then kill you with ling/hydra lol. Or just go infestors. They're pretty good.
Also to your mass harass style with Prisms, DT, Phoenixes etc, that's... a lot of tech. Like, A LOT of tech: robo WITH robo bay for WP speed, stargate, and then you have to tech all the way to Dark Shrine. That's a lot of money not going into, say, an army. Or sentries. Too fancy, I could just 'tech' to roaches w/ burrow and tunneling claws and kill you by the time you get 2 out of the 3 things you need.
Honestly, the best way to defend vs mass muta is either a) be Korean and kill him with a timing attack, or b) storms, archons, blink stalkers. Although what I'd like to see one Toss do one game is basically do an archon toilet, but for mutas. Just keep a mothership and 3 or so archons (IIRC 3 archons one shot a muta) in your base, be gosu and land a vortex, boom, muta problem solved.
Too situational, I know, but it's still something I want to see because it sounds AWESOME.
I don't think that would work. Mutas are too fast and would escape once they get out of the vortex before the two second delay is over.
On February 23 2012 04:29 stratmatt wrote: The problem with higher level toss players is that they are lazy and just crutch on the fact that if they make it to lategame v T they pretty much get the win. This is why a player such as MC, who is brutal with midgame aggression, can win a gsl, yet nobody else has done the same. Good terrans have adapted their playstyles so many times over and figured out unique ways to win games while most tosses just stick to the script.
Dude what are you talking about? Terran is still going for MMM with vikings vs toss, what are these unique ways you are speaking off? Terran openings vs Toss haven't changed all that much and late TvP is still decided by good positioning with storm/EMP.
Cannot wait to test this patch, plus 2 range for phoenix is huge, but I'm not sure if that's going to change PvZ all that match.
On February 23 2012 04:29 pallad wrote: hmm i play today like 6 ZvP , as zerg and win 5 of them with pure mutas/lings.., was prepered for phenix build ( making 4 corruptors.) but they never come. Toss players still prefere to use blink stalkers vs mutas ? Like this patch , but once i have Sc2 crash at loading screen.. never had it before ( im playing from beta)
I think what a lot of Protoss players (including myself) have said is that it would be incredibly hard to get an appropriate number of phoenix out to counter mass muta, even with the new range upgrade. This leaves three options:
1. Make a few pre-emptive phoenix so that you're not completely behind the air vs. air count... but then Zerg might just not make mutalisks at all.
2. Go hardcore double-stargate after you see the mutalisk transition, although Zerg can still tech switch and phoenix are more niche units anyway.
3. Go blink/ storm and sacrifice mobility for well-rounded unit compositions. They're still pretty good against mutalisks. Maybe you can get phoenix and the air upgrade later on.
A lot of us still opt for option three, as we don't want to be locked into air tech or have dead supply in phoenix.
On February 22 2012 22:33 PureBalls wrote: Terrans just keep coming. 5 out of 6 advance in todays Code A matches, and the one that didnt, was eliminated in a TvT. Not even one protoss wins his PvT. And the one zerg also lost his ZvT.
QQ can now stop.
ggyo
patch hasn't hit in korea bro. nice try tho
To be fair, the patch won't really be affecting TvP that much, as the phoenix change is essentially for PvZ and the ghost change primarily affects TvZ.
Today was definitely a day to be happy if you're Terran.
not really, because the protoss/zerg players threw away their games with huge blunders. There wasn't really anything to learn from that other than the fact, that you might win a game if your opponent totally messes up. And aditionally we didn't see that much lategame TvZ and TvP, so these games have really not much of a stand in this discussion here.
And terrans were playing perfectly, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Give me a break. Terrans have 0 problems in both MUs.
Every time I see stupid reply I usually check guy's name, why is it that 90% of stupid replies I see are yours?
Its like you are haunting every thread that has anything to do with terran and just say how terran is OP, easy, no problems in any MU, ghosts are OP and after patch they are still counter to bl, l2p terran add ravens and other dumb crap.
EPT
