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On February 23 2012 05:27 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:15 Rainmansc wrote:
+1
No offense but can bronze-master players stop talking about balance please... The game should be enjoyable by all races on all levels. It has been almost year since we had EU Terran win a major event (Thorzain winning TSL3 in March 2011). It's been pretty much donwhill from there. Yeah, the Terrans in Korea are doing alright, but this does solve the problem at all.
He won that tournament with the help of this Thor build which also got nerfed by restoring energy bars.
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On February 23 2012 05:37 PureBalls wrote:
And when was the last time non-korean P or Z have won a tournament?
As far as I can see, since the time Koreans (and those foreigners training in Korea) have began participating in foreign tournaments, no foreigner has won anything.
Well, since last terran vicotry:
Naniwa @ MLG Dallas (April 2011)
Huk @ Dreamhack Summer (June 2011)
White-ra @ IPL Season 2 (June 2011)
Dimaga @ Assembly Summer (August 2011)
Naniwa @ MLG Global Invitational (September 2011)
Stephano @ IPL Season 3 ( October 2011)
Idra @ IEM Season VI - Global Challenge Guangzhou (October 2011)
Huk @ MLG Orlando (October 2011)
Stephano @ ESWC 2011 (October 2011)
Yeah, non-korean zergs and tosses won nothing.
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On February 23 2012 05:34 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:29 noD wrote:
well I don't even play anymore and won't buy hots if it's more thatn 20 bucks (which means i wont) but I still like watching, so a question to who plays, what can kill a heavy brood/corruptor army now as terran ?
aren't vikings weak against it ? If he manages to get out almost pure Corrupter / Broodlord and few Infestors/Lings maybe Blings you're now fucked. Thors do very little against both and you would need like 20-30 Vikings which are almost impossible to get without having ~5 reactored Starports. And even then Infestors are very lethal since it's impossible to spread out so many Vikings as much as you would need to not get more then 2-3 Fungaled and still manage to hit enough targets at the same time. If you spread out too much to Corrupters will just pick of the Vikings if you clump too much the Infestors eat you alive. Thors don't provide suffient cover against Corrupters, hell they don't even do that against Vikings in TvT so no way they'd do that against Corrupters.
Well a Zerg needs comfortable 3 mining bases to support that kind of composition and given the progression of tech by the time a true maxed BL corruptor infestor army zerg would have 4-5 bases in total (3 of which are mining, not completely healthily but good enough). So the question is... Why are you letting the zerg get on 5 base without disrupting him at all? Things like drops can mess with Z timings and force them to spend gas on other things besides their ideal late game composition. Obviously i just oversimplified the game but it's something to think about
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On February 23 2012 05:48 kranten wrote:
We'll have to wait and see if more lower league terrans will switch, I think the game should be enjoyable for all races at all levels because sc2 isn't here just for the pro scene.
And why shouldnt terran be enjoyable for lower league players?
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On February 18 2012 12:32 justiceknight wrote:Mac Bug Fixes - Fixed an issue which caused performance to drop significantly during large battles.
Hoorah for this fix (if it actually works)!!!!
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On February 23 2012 05:52 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:37 PureBalls wrote:
And when was the last time non-korean P or Z have won a tournament?
As far as I can see, since the time Koreans (and those foreigners training in Korea) have began participating in foreign tournaments, no foreigner has won anything. Well, since last terran vicotry: Naniwa @ MLG Dallas (April 2011) Huk @ Dreamhack Summer (June 2011) White-ra @ IPL Season 2 (June 2011) Dimaga @ Assembly Summer (August 2011) Naniwa @ MLG Global Invitational (September 2011) Stephano @ IPL Season 3 ( October 2011) Idra @ IEM Season VI - Global Challenge Guangzhou (October 2011) Huk @ MLG Orlando (October 2011) Stephano @ ESWC 2011 (October 2011) Yeah, non-korean zergs and tosses won nothing.
You can take Huk out of that list, and Naniwa's MLG GI win as well.
Those players were at the time training in Korea.
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On February 23 2012 05:45 schubbidu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 04:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
2. Go hardcore double-stargate after you see the mutalisk transition, although Zerg can still tech switch and phoenix are more niche units anyway. Have a look at Hydras if you think the Phoenix is too niche.
I think you're overreacting to my statement. While a lot of phoenix are good against small numbers of hydralisks, they aren't cost-efficient against hydralisks, not to mention the fact that chain fungals will wreck phoenix so hard that even seeing infestor tech will deter Protoss from massing any more phoenix. That's why more Protosses may opt for option 3.
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Now Terran is finally too hard for me. I often have even games vs High Master but if u want to go for a 200vs200 fi0,
you can even lose against low Dia bobs. Its just frustrating. Lategame against Protoss is hard but now against Zerg it maybe is even harder :o We will see whats and if there is a good counter to lategame armys.
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On February 23 2012 05:53 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:48 kranten wrote:
We'll have to wait and see if more lower league terrans will switch, I think the game should be enjoyable for all races at all levels because sc2 isn't here just for the pro scene. And why shouldnt terran be enjoyable for lower league players?
Playing a macro style as a Terran is probably one of the most difficult things there is. Pretty much all my mates have either switched races or just quit. It's a joke how easy Zerg and Toss can be at the later stages of the game.
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On February 23 2012 05:53 Lovely_US wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:34 s3rp wrote:On February 23 2012 05:29 noD wrote:
well I don't even play anymore and won't buy hots if it's more thatn 20 bucks (which means i wont) but I still like watching, so a question to who plays, what can kill a heavy brood/corruptor army now as terran ?
aren't vikings weak against it ? If he manages to get out almost pure Corrupter / Broodlord and few Infestors/Lings maybe Blings you're now fucked. Thors do very little against both and you would need like 20-30 Vikings which are almost impossible to get without having ~5 reactored Starports. And even then Infestors are very lethal since it's impossible to spread out so many Vikings as much as you would need to not get more then 2-3 Fungaled and still manage to hit enough targets at the same time. If you spread out too much to Corrupters will just pick of the Vikings if you clump too much the Infestors eat you alive. Thors don't provide suffient cover against Corrupters, hell they don't even do that against Vikings in TvT so no way they'd do that against Corrupters. Well a Zerg needs comfortable 3 mining bases to support that kind of composition and given the progression of tech by the time a true maxed BL corruptor infestor army zerg would have 4-5 bases in total (3 of which are mining, not completely healthily but good enough). So the question is... Why are you letting the zerg get on 5 base without disrupting him at all? Things like drops can mess with Z timings and force them to spend gas on other things besides their ideal late game composition. Obviously i just oversimplified the game but it's something to think about
I just answered to his question . If for some reason the Zerg manages to get that composition you can leave before any engagement happens since you're not going to win ^^
And btw if you play pure Mech this can happen to you on a Zerg remax. It's pretty hard to really do something against Zerg expansions before your mechball is big enough . Other then suiciding Helions and hope you kill Drones . Big reason i stopped playing Mech on the bigger Maps was exactly that is can't move out before almost max supply but at that point a smart Zerg has at least 5 Bases of gas income.
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On February 23 2012 05:55 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:52 scypio wrote:On February 23 2012 05:37 PureBalls wrote:
And when was the last time non-korean P or Z have won a tournament?
As far as I can see, since the time Koreans (and those foreigners training in Korea) have began participating in foreign tournaments, no foreigner has won anything. Well, since last terran vicotry: Naniwa @ MLG Dallas (April 2011) Huk @ Dreamhack Summer (June 2011) White-ra @ IPL Season 2 (June 2011) Dimaga @ Assembly Summer (August 2011) Naniwa @ MLG Global Invitational (September 2011) Stephano @ IPL Season 3 ( October 2011) Idra @ IEM Season VI - Global Challenge Guangzhou (October 2011) Huk @ MLG Orlando (October 2011) Stephano @ ESWC 2011 (October 2011) Yeah, non-korean zergs and tosses won nothing. You can take Huk out of that list, and Naniwa's MLG GI win as well. Those players were at the time training in Korea.
I don't care where do they train, besides: there were some foreigner terrans in Korea too, none of them are doing that good. Training in Korea does not make one a Korean, it just does not work like that.
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fixed a bug where u could open chat when u wanted to
(its not possible anymore from score screen?)
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the patches become smaller and smaller!
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On February 23 2012 05:59 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:55 PureBalls wrote:On February 23 2012 05:52 scypio wrote:On February 23 2012 05:37 PureBalls wrote:
And when was the last time non-korean P or Z have won a tournament?
As far as I can see, since the time Koreans (and those foreigners training in Korea) have began participating in foreign tournaments, no foreigner has won anything. Well, since last terran vicotry: Naniwa @ MLG Dallas (April 2011) Huk @ Dreamhack Summer (June 2011) White-ra @ IPL Season 2 (June 2011) Dimaga @ Assembly Summer (August 2011) Naniwa @ MLG Global Invitational (September 2011) Stephano @ IPL Season 3 ( October 2011) Idra @ IEM Season VI - Global Challenge Guangzhou (October 2011) Huk @ MLG Orlando (October 2011) Stephano @ ESWC 2011 (October 2011) Yeah, non-korean zergs and tosses won nothing. You can take Huk out of that list, and Naniwa's MLG GI win as well. Those players were at the time training in Korea. I don't care where do they train, besides: there were some foreigner terrans in Korea too, none of them are doing that good. Training in Korea does not make one a Korean, it just does not work like that.
Yes it does. It does make you a Korean. Huk was training in Korea, and before his break was one of the top players in the world. But he wasnt just visiting for like a week. No, it took months, before he became a beast, and crushed nerds at DH and HSC. Which foreign terran stayed long enough in Korea, to get really good? The answer is NONE.
I remember QXC training for a short time, and already all killing the IM team. What could he have accomplished, if he stayer for like 9-12 months? And how good is he now? Do you believe he could all-kill IM in his current form?
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On February 23 2012 06:02 INTOtheVOID wrote:
Back to Brood War!!!!!
Quoted for the truth. I'm officially done with any form of 1v1 in SC2. I'll check back a few months after HotS comes and see if things have gotten any better, but I'm not holding my breath. Time to continue learning Terran in BW.
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Well, its going to be interesting at ASUS ROG and MLG with the changes..
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On February 23 2012 05:58 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:53 Lovely_US wrote:On February 23 2012 05:34 s3rp wrote:On February 23 2012 05:29 noD wrote:
well I don't even play anymore and won't buy hots if it's more thatn 20 bucks (which means i wont) but I still like watching, so a question to who plays, what can kill a heavy brood/corruptor army now as terran ?
aren't vikings weak against it ? If he manages to get out almost pure Corrupter / Broodlord and few Infestors/Lings maybe Blings you're now fucked. Thors do very little against both and you would need like 20-30 Vikings which are almost impossible to get without having ~5 reactored Starports. And even then Infestors are very lethal since it's impossible to spread out so many Vikings as much as you would need to not get more then 2-3 Fungaled and still manage to hit enough targets at the same time. If you spread out too much to Corrupters will just pick of the Vikings if you clump too much the Infestors eat you alive. Thors don't provide suffient cover against Corrupters, hell they don't even do that against Vikings in TvT so no way they'd do that against Corrupters. Well a Zerg needs comfortable 3 mining bases to support that kind of composition and given the progression of tech by the time a true maxed BL corruptor infestor army zerg would have 4-5 bases in total (3 of which are mining, not completely healthily but good enough). So the question is... Why are you letting the zerg get on 5 base without disrupting him at all? Things like drops can mess with Z timings and force them to spend gas on other things besides their ideal late game composition. Obviously i just oversimplified the game but it's something to think about I just answered to his question . If for some reason the Zerg manages to get that composition you can leave before any engagement happens since you're not going to win ^^
what are you guys talking about?? you can own any amount of broodlord/infestor with the raven's seeker missile.. or is this getting nerfed aswell?
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On February 23 2012 05:53 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 05:48 kranten wrote:
We'll have to wait and see if more lower league terrans will switch, I think the game should be enjoyable for all races at all levels because sc2 isn't here just for the pro scene. And why shouldnt terran be enjoyable for lower league players?
cuz they dont enjoy the game and throw around useless statistics they found somewhere instead of just playing.
the game is well balanced on most skilllvls (maybe zerg up in bronze cuz you need to inject to build more than 3 units)
even in the monthly sc2 winrates terran was NEVER behind by more than 5% international aswell and in korean statistics,
its so pathetic to read go through the forums and read QQ everywhere, it seems like the whole scene just bought the game to QQ.
terrans that are allowed to QQ are players like thorzain or MVP whos play is based around turtleing to mass ghosts and fight hive tech with them, but most players below high master should stop QQing and play the game and improve other stuff than thinking about the ghost stuff
i remember when blizzard introduced maps like taldarim on the ladder and players were like wtf terrans got no chance on big maps like this, when zerg neural got removed zergs thought they couldnt stop colossus, so much QQ about nothing.
its just sick of reading through the balance discussion threads, its not the patch that makes people switch races or quit the game its you making such a hype around the stuff and telling around that u cant win anymore, i see plenty or korean gsl terrans that dont even get ghosts and stick on vikings and thors to fight broodlords.
tldr: stop whine go play
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All the terrans crying about late game TvP should watch the Jinro vs Tiger G1 @ EWM.
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EPT
