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On February 15 2012 03:55 Shadow_Dog wrote:I guess the best way to descibe this is, too much, too soon, for too little. Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:53 crydee wrote:
MLG should ditch the high rise office space in NYC and set up somewhere cheaper? Since it doesn't matter where you are or your customers being in NYC is just retarded when it's twice as expensive as other parts in the country. Salaries, space, food and almost everything costs more in NYC. If you cut your costs significantly perhaps this wouldn't be needed at all? I think thats just change considering how much $ they need to fly out all the players from around the world.
It's more than change. Fore examp,e a salary of $100,000 in Charlotte, North Carolina should increase to $161,585 in New York, New York (cost of living calculator). MLG has 10 executives, they probably make that amount of money or more, add in all the other staff and rent for office space.. you're getting up there.
That's a lot of money to save by being somewhere cheaper and Charlotte isn't really "BFE". Plus, I thought MLG was only paying up to a certain amount for plane tickets? $600 or something like that.
I'm just stating that being in NYC when you're customers are not in NYC and their demographic is low income and price sensitive (college students, high school kids, younger people) than it doesn't make a lot of sense from an expense standpoint to run a e-sport company In one of the most expensive cities in the world.
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There shouldn't be any pitchforks really, except from the people who paid for Gold memberships and they should simply ask for a refund down the line if they feel cheated or unsatisfied.
You just can't tout eSports as a business while simultaneously trying to make it a pity party. MLG is trying to push forward a PPV model, awesome, but I can't see myself investing money when so much great content is available at little to no cost. Most people make exceptions for the GSL when it comes to opening their wallets for paid Starcraft content.
It's just that simple, I don't see value in it for $20, i don't see myself buying it at $10, I barely see myself opening my wallet at $5. When I look at the roster for Assembly Winter 2012 and see some really strong names that have the potential for some really great games, I honestly can't bring myself to shell out $20/$15/$10 to watch something very similar, while I could be watching that for free. It doesn't make sense to me.
It's genuinely that simple. If you want to try and sell it based on making the industry work, then sorry, the product isn't worth my money when it's the only one that adopts such a model.
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the product that mlg puts out isnt worth more than 5 bucks tops plain and simple.
instead of thinking of ways to squeeze every last cent out of us maybe sundance should work on putting out a better product so that more people watch, tell their friends, get hooked, and then once the number is high enough we can start making more money
does anyone pay attention in economics classes anymore?
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Why do people always talk about profit/loss with MLG...? IT DOESNT MATTER.... We are the customers, not stockholders\owners...
If the product is worth buying then buy it... I have been a supporter of MLG as a Gold Member but there is a point where the loyalties of the customer trying to support esport stops and common sense kicks in and you stop being taken advantage of… I will not be purchasing the PPV in NYC… It is like buying a $20 hamburger… Yes it’s really good truly worth $5 or $10 at most… Am I paying $20 to make myself feel better about supporting Esports?
MLG is not the only product now available to us in the USA… We now have choices and I think I will continue supporting Esports but through another venue like IPL or Teams/players…
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On February 15 2012 04:04 NicolBolas wrote:
I don't know about "high rise office space", but there's a reason that a hell of a lot of companies maintain a presence in New York. That's where big business is. Probably 60+% of MLG's sponsors have offices in New York. If you want to hobnob with the big boys in business, you have to have a presence in New York. Period.
Yeah, stuff costs more in NY. But MLG would probably lose more money by leaving and either losing sponsors or having to deal with sponsors via long-range travel.
Travel does not cost that much compared to the cost of living between NYC and some other reasonable places. MLG isn't a big player so their not "hobnobbing" with the major marketing executives. Plenty of corporate HQ are not in NYC and it does not effect them because their not in NYC. People don't look at your zip code figure out you're not from NYC and then decide not to do business with you because you don't hold an office there.
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i like EG´s position. its quite a position to take when u have the image of bad boys and the image of just buying good people from other teams. i like it. maybe i root for EG a bit more now... ♥
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I think I'm becoming a fan of Alex. If more CEOs was like this guy, the world would be a much better place.
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$20 for a weekend is ridiculous. Outright ridiculous. They're coming out swinging with a really high price point to see if anybody is dumb enough to buy it.
All future MLG prices are based on how this very first PPV charge blows over. If you all line up like cattle and buy it because an important person (Alex) told you to, then it will be AT LEAST $20 EVERY SINGLE MLG from here on out.
Don't buy it; let it flop. I think PPV for MLG is great, but it's called $5, not $20, not even $10.
$5
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Let me see, I have 20$ to spend, and a decision: 20 hours of MLG Arena or full GSL Season + a few bears. Totally not getting the MLG pass, especially if I have free Assembly stream at the same time  If they made it 5$, I would consider getting it, and I think that it is a reasonable price, if they are also getting not too low ad revenue.
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I love Sundance and MLG. I really wish I could just pay the 20 bucks, but I am an interning College student in the US, which means I don't have lots of cash. I would obviously be more able to pay for it if it's price was reduced by 50%, but for now I will just watch the VODs or try to go to a barcraft.
I think they mentioned that they are going to revamp their subscription model stuff (MLG Gold and Silver), so maybe they will have a new Premium account that will include the HD streams and the Arenas for a year like GSL has soon.
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how come iem and ipl and god forbid even nasl can put out such far superior products without all this drama and money hoarding? what is sundance missing here or was he just raised poorly?
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On February 15 2012 04:23 Zeetox wrote:Let me see, I have 20$ to spend, and a decision: 20 hours of MLG Arena or full GSL Season + a few bears. Totally not getting the MLG pass, especially if I have free Assembly stream at the same time If they made it 5$, I would consider getting it, and I think that it is a reasonable price, if they are also getting not too low ad revenue.
were can you get bears for under $20?
Sundance is getting too fucking greedy, by expecting people to pay a ridiculous price. Since he decides to compare it to UFC were you pay $40 for 1 night, but does he realize that even with basic cable Spike tv does all the pre fights in HD, and then after that the main even is required for ppv. Now if it was this way and they broadcasted a free HQ (Which every company should do) like all the way up to at least semi finals then have you pay $5 for the semi-finals and finals they would instantly get probably anywhere from 15-20k ppl (Guesstimating) would probably buy it. But comparing this shit to UFC is ridiculous. Saying this is the way of western esports is a joke.
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I will NEVER pay to watch a game of Starcraft 2. I enjoy watching in my spare time, and I don't mind advertising. But the product is simply not worth it to me.
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On February 15 2012 04:10 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:17 OpticalPhonon wrote:
All of the posts by VirgilSC2 in this thread are quite good and deserve to be read. I totally agree about the bait and switch that MLG pulled and that topic deserves it's own thread. I was going to create a thread on it because I feel if Gold and Silver members banded together and put pressure on MLG, they would be forced to change their policy. We could do so in a multitude of ways (disputing credit card charges as I recommend with my posts on page 4-6 is one way). It is such a slam dunk bait and switch that they pulled, that a class action suit would easily win (they would likely settle long before going to court). Unfortunately, I don't think enough people care about it do anything about it, and I think my thread would just get locked and the discussion would be redirected back here. Maybe I will write it up anyway, I think this is a really big deal because people are getting scammed. As for me personally, I sent MLG an email regarding it, and have already contacted Amex. If MLG doesn't give me a prorated refund or allow me to watch Winter Arena free (as it is part of the 2012 Pro Circuit, again check page 4-6 of this thread) then I'll dispute the charge. I think it will be slam dunk win and I expect to get my $29.99 back, as MLG is refusing to provide the services I paid for. I'll eventually post my results in this thread or whatever.
Please do this. I think collective pressure from already paying members may be the most efficient way to get their attention and maybe change something. I'm a gold member and as things stand right now, I won't be renewing my membership or paying them for any new content.
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I agree with your sentiment that constructive feedback is a good way to go about that this and that we should believe MLG is willing to listen and change if their consumers want them to.
I don't believe MLG is evil, or greedy. A tournament could charge $500 dollars and I wouldn't consider them greedy, or evil (Excluding some sort of monopolistic, or collusion type situation of course). It's their decision to do whatever they want with their business and prices.
What I fear, though, is they are making a very poor business decision. Everyone out there understands businesses need to generate revenue to continue to grow. No one expects MLG to be non-profit. But you can't just make a business decision and justify it as necessary for self sustainability and then expect it to magically succeed, or expect consumers to feel obligated to support you. It doesn't matter if MLG believe this is necessary for the future of e-sports and their company. That doesn't mean it works.
We have to ground ourselves in reality here. We have to accept what viewers are willing to pay for (or not pay for) and price accordingly. There is no "should" or "fair" or "right" or "necessary." There is just reality. And if in reality, people are not willing to pay $20 for MLG's PPV, then it shouldn't happen, or it should fail. We shouldn't artificially try to make bad business models succeed by giving them money out of some feeling of obligation, or out of charity.
This is where I disagree with you. I don't think anyone who does not value the pass at $20 or more should be buying the pass. You are not "supporting" esports by buying the pass if you find the pass to not be worth $20 to you, you are giving them bad information and a false sense of profitability. Those who value it at $20 certainly should go for it. If there are enough people who truly value it at $20+ then it will be able to succeed and that's great for MLG. Those are the consumers that create a sustainable systems.
So I would plea with people that you just act as normal consumers. Buy things at the price you find acceptable, don't buy things for more than what you value them at. Then MLG will see the actual results and they can make their decision on future pricing plans based off real consumers, not donors. I don't think anybody, MLG, esports, or consumers, win by artificially high amounts of ticket purchases.
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Personally:
1) If I'm free that weekend, I'll buy it but mainly out of curiousity of seeing what the first PPV will be like for SC2. I'm pretty optimistic that MLG is going to pull off one hell of a spectacle here.
2) I think $10 makes a lot more sense. I feel that most sc2 fans cant split the cost with buddies or goto barcrafts, but I could be wrong. Anyway, MLG tournaments definitely seem worth $10, but $20 is on the brink. I'd spend $10 without blinking an eye.
3) I think gold members should get a discount (yes, I'm a gold member). It adds more real value to the gold membership. Personally, I think HD and the quad view are worth it even with free LQ, but I'm guessing a lot of other fans need a little more incentive.
Anyway, I really hope this works for MLG. I think sc2 is screwed if major tournaments require a lot of charity to pull off.
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On February 15 2012 04:29 Boblhead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 04:23 Zeetox wrote:Let me see, I have 20$ to spend, and a decision: 20 hours of MLG Arena or full GSL Season + a few bears. Totally not getting the MLG pass, especially if I have free Assembly stream at the same time If they made it 5$, I would consider getting it, and I think that it is a reasonable price, if they are also getting not too low ad revenue. were can you get bears for under $20? Sundance is getting too fucking greedy, by expecting people to pay a ridiculous price. Since he decides to compare it to UFC were you pay $40 for 1 night, but does he realize that even with basic cable Spike tv does all the pre fights in HD, and then after that the main even is required for ppv. Now if it was this way and they broadcasted a free HQ (Which every company should do) like all the way up to at least semi finals then have you pay $5 for the semi-finals and finals they would instantly get probably anywhere from 15-20k ppl (Guesstimating) would probably buy it. But comparing this shit to UFC is ridiculous. Saying this is the way of western esports is a joke.
Well in Finland you get few bears with 20 euros http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karhu
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I've sent a "support email" using the MLG website whilst logged in as a Gold member. Hopefully this'll get to Sundance; I couldn't find his email address and I think 140 characters on twitter is too short.
Basically I'm in category C. I think it's fine for MLG to introduce new PPV events, but (a) it's priced too high and (b) as a Gold member I feel I should get some kind of discount. Even a small discount would make me feel emotionally happier about having supported MLG by buying a subscription last year.
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I will maybe watch the voids which I can watch then when I want 
As european paying $20 to mess up my sleep schedule is not a clever idea for me.
Good luck with the tournament
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PPV is a HORRIBLE idea.
Not everyone can afford spending money on SC2 events.
They keep talking about wanting to make eSports grow, you'll only lose people putting up PPV things.
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EPT
