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UltiBahamut
United States102 Posts
Since i'm expecting this post to get buried. can someone pm me where a good spot to leave Feedback for mlg? and perhaps the OP can like edit it at the bottom of his post? But as for my feelings. i am just a disgruntled gold member lol. the 2nd post in this thread describes my feelings completely  | ||
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:40 Roynalf wrote: Well in Finland you get few bears with 20 euros http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karhu clearly you didn't get the joke.... | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:42 Trizz wrote: PPV is a HORRIBLE idea. Not everyone can afford spending money on SC2 events. They keep talking about wanting to make eSports grow, you'll only lose people putting up PPV things. Tournaments can't afford to lose money on sc2 either. Its expensive to provide a venue, fly in, and provide accommodations to all the top sc2 talent from around the world. What other tournament is footing the cash to make something like this happen? GSL sure isn't. If you want to see a truly international cast of the best players, no one comes close to this MLG arena and no one is providing the support to players and teams to make it happen. | ||
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FlukyS
Ireland485 Posts
I was thinking of buying the gold membership for this year but when I heard of the price change and gold not covering all of the events I immediately went nope. Its good that they allow the vods to be watched for free though for the events which is a moderate comprimise since im in Ireland anyway so its a pain to watch live but then you have to put up with constant spoilers on reddit (so in this case I probably wouldn't go on reddit for a few days until I see the matches I want). I wouldn't pay 10 dollars for 1 weekend and I definitely wouldn't spend 20. Like I get to watch NASL now for free in 1080p IPL puts out daily content for free too in 720p. Id gladly pay something like 30-40 dollars to IPL since they like GSL put out a lot of content consistantly throughout the year and if MLG did something around the price point for the entire year I would probably get it too but not having to pay the consistant 20 dollars here and there to make it cost like 100 dollars throughout the year that is just terrible and its exploitation for money of a community that loves the game. | ||
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hibbleton
Canada25 Posts
That said, I do kind of feel like the MLG Gold members got boned, though. This is the worst possible reaction for the community to have. If I'm a sponsor of a SC2 event or team, I'm looking at this and saying "holy shit, these people are up in arms about $20? Are my sponsorship dollars really worth anything if they're that unwilling to spend money on something they love?" Also, comparing the cost of MLG Winter Arena to the GSL is irrelevant. You need to view this tournament in a vacuum and ask yourself if its worth your $20. If it's not for whatever reason--you can't afford it, you'd rather spend your money on something else--then that's fine. If MLG doesn't generate enough revenue, they'll make adjustments. I fully support the decision to make this PPV. It does kind of suck for the underage crowd who don't have credit cards and may not have access to one, though. | ||
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Ricemagical
270 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:49 Smackzilla wrote: Tournaments can't afford to lose money on sc2 either. Its expensive to provide a venue, fly in, and provide accommodations to all the top sc2 talent from around the world. What other tournament is footing the cash to make something like this happen? GSL sure isn't. If you want to see a truly international cast of the best players, no one comes close to this MLG arena and no one is providing the support to players and teams to make it happen. What do you mean no one's providing the support to teams/players it happen? MLG providence had an extremely deep lineup, including numerous koreans, all of which (save for the handful of players that did the global invitational) were flown by their teams. The fact of the matter is there's always been a dynamic between teams providing accommodation for their players while the tournaments provide a setting and venue for them to play in (with the exception of blizzard run tournaments). Hell even WCG dropped their accommodations policy last year for sc2 players, yet players still showed up. Instead of maintaining that relationship, mlg decided to change it up and are making the viewers pay for it. | ||
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Roarasaur
Canada9 Posts
We all have lives, jobs, studies to attend to, and are not going to gather together 3 days straight and have slumber parties and pillow fights just to take advantage of the fact that only one person will be paying for the event. Their argument of pooling money together and watching it all together goes out the window here (it being a 3 day event). In this case, the $20 ppv idea is ridiculous and the only options we have is that we can either all pay for it to watch it on our own when we have time on the Friday or Saturday, then gather together on Sunday to watch it as a group (which puts the total cost for our group to be $160+) or just have one person pay for it (where he will have full Friday and Saturday access, limiting those days events to only him) and we all gather for the Sunday event as per usual ($20). The second idea here is probably what Scumbag Sundance had in mind but he obviously didn't think it through. One other thing I'd like to point out (unless it was already mentioned in a news post) that the advertisements in the downtime of the streams better be limited or non-existent if they intend to go with this sort of business model. | ||
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OpticalPhonon
Canada72 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:04 NicolBolas wrote: To be a bit fair to Sundance, there is a difference between charitably helping people out and offering a product for money. You cannot rely on charity. You can't run a business purely on charity. That's why charities are non-profit organizations. The community certainly is willing to help out individuals who are in a bad way, or funding Kickstarter programs, or whatever. But the community seems to have a certain sense of entitlement when it comes to actually getting the product itself (ie: matches). The community seems to believe that matches should be free. Are you claiming that those documentaries are charities? With "The Sons of StarCraft" you get a copy of the movie when you pledge $20, so you're clearly buying something from the filmmakers and nowhere on that page do they use the word "donate." Also, they'll presumably sell copies of the movie once it's finished. While it is a passion project, the filmmakers still want to make money from it. But that's besides the point: I don't agree with your assertion that "The community seems to believe that matches should be free." If anything, the consensus seems to be that "freemium" is the way to go. Events like GSL, NASL, HSC, and, up until recently, MLG have all followed this model and received little to no criticism for it. Maybe this model isn't sustainable and PPV is the future -- there's already pages of discussion on that in here and in the main PPV thread and I have no insight into the finances of these tournaments. My only issue is with the bait and switch MLG pulled while moving into the PPV realm. VirgilSC2 has written about this earlier in this thread and so I won't repeat his points here. | ||
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P0ckets
United States430 Posts
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hibbleton
Canada25 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:53 FlukyS wrote: The truth is for a weekend of play for $20 its way too high like look at GSL. MLG is not competing against GSL. Totally irrelevant. For example: McDonalds charges $3.29 for a cheeseburger + fries (I have no idea what they actually charge) and a restaurant charges $12.99 for a cheeseburger + fries. These price points don't matter because they're not competing with each other. | ||
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Tarotis
Germany1931 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:01 hibbleton wrote: MLG is not competing against GSL. Totally irrelevant. For example: McDonalds charges $3.29 for a cheeseburger + fries (I have no idea what they actually charge) and a restaurant charges $12.99 for a cheeseburger + fries. These price points don't matter because they're not competing with each other. They are competing, but they have different audiences. The audience for GSL and MLG is the same | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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Ricemagical
270 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:01 hibbleton wrote: MLG is not competing against GSL. Totally irrelevant. For example: McDonalds charges $3.29 for a cheeseburger + fries (I have no idea what they actually charge) and a restaurant charges $12.99 for a cheeseburger + fries. These price points don't matter because they're not competing with each other. They might not be directly competing, but the end product is essentially the same. Both are serving burgers/fries while both gsl and mlg are serving high level starcraft 2 matches. If you can't get that thought through your head then i just dont know what to say. | ||
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Pyre
United States1940 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:49 Smackzilla wrote: Tournaments can't afford to lose money on sc2 either. Its expensive to provide a venue, fly in, and provide accommodations to all the top sc2 talent from around the world. What other tournament is footing the cash to make something like this happen? GSL sure isn't. If you want to see a truly international cast of the best players, no one comes close to this MLG arena and no one is providing the support to players and teams to make it happen. I don't see the point of saying MLG is doing more this year. Everything MLG added this year is going to be funned by the community. This isn't really an improvement. This is similar to if a president said all food is now free and increased income tax by 10%. All the great proposed improvements MLG came up for this year, are all going to funded for by its fan base. I personally don't think it's fair or good for esports This hasn't been discussed but MLG's prize pools have always been terrible. The company just comes off to greedy in my eyes. Last year the money they charged players to enter the tournament, was more then the total prize pool. So where did all the money go that was funded from entrance tickets, advertising and paid HD streams? I think some executives are really making some big money over at MLG and with this PPV format they intend to make much more. Now I'm all for a company making a profit but MLG seems to be over the top greedy, they seem to be more interested in profits then anything else. These decisions will untimely hurt MLG ratings, massively. I find it ironic they are aliening their viewers after bragging so much last year about how many views they had. Most likely they will lower the price to $10 and the community will see them as heroes. I have decided with this ploy I will not pay anything to watch MLG, I am currently discussed with their business practices. | ||
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hibbleton
Canada25 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:03 Tarotis wrote: They are competing, but they have different audiences. The audience for GSL and MLG is the same It's not fair to say they're competing at all. That implies that I have to choose between one or the other, which isn't the case. I can choose both of them, I can choose one or I can choose neither. These tournaments all exist independently and it's up to you to choose which ones you want to watch and how much you're willing to spend. MLG has done a fantastic job of putting together an amazing lineup of players and I'm happy to give them my $20 to watch them. | ||
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hibbleton
Canada25 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:05 Ricemagical wrote: They might not be directly competing, but the end product is essentially the same. Both are serving burgers/fries while both gsl and mlg are serving high level starcraft 2 matches. If you can't get that thought through your head then i just dont know what to say. Maybe my analogy wasn't the best but the fact remains it doesn't matter what the GSL charges for their high level StarCraft 2 matches. MLG is charging $20 for theirs and it's up to you if you want to pay for it or not. For what it's worth, I have a GSL yearly subscription and I'll be buying the MLG Winter Arena PPV. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:09 hibbleton wrote: It's not fair to say they're competing at all. That implies that I have to choose between one or the other, which isn't the case. I can choose both of them, I can choose one or I can choose neither. Thats actually completely wrong. Its like saying "Giants vs Patriots is no competition, i could cheer for both teams". Or saying that the eu-car industry is not competing against the us-car industry, because you could buy both cars, right? You will say now, yeah, i cant compare that because cars are so expensive, where the GSL and stuff is peanuts compared to that - right. But it boils down to exactly that. Of course you can pay for both leagues. But most of the people will just pay for ONE. And thats the one with better value. | ||
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MVega
763 Posts
I would gladly pay $10 for the event, but I think $20 is way too much. If you think about everything that we get as Gold Members, or everything we get as GSL subscribers, or everything we get as members of just about any other event, I just think that $20 is way too much for what we'd be getting. $10 I'd do without even thinking about it, $20 I just can't. I want to watch high quality StarCraft 2 content, and I want to support eSports, but yeah. It's not that $20 is a lot of money, because it's not (to me anyway), it's just that it becomes too much money when you compare it to what we're getting for similar elsewhere. 3 days of streaming for $20 ... not very enticing, especially if it's anything like other MLG events (Which are amazing btw, I'm not bashing MLG at all) where quite a bit of the air time is filled with downtime, advertisements, and shots of the crowd between matches. Which is something I don't mind because normally I'm thinking "Aw yeah it's okay I only paid a very small amount of money for this and it's awesome!." - I think they'd be more likely to sell this at the $20 price point if there wasn't another major event scheduled for the same time slot - I still think it would be overpriced, but I think they'd get more sales. As someone that easily makes enough money to be able to afford the event I know that for me it's a very easy choice to watch the other event that weekend instead, so I imagine for people less fortunate it's an even easier choice. | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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Sir WeenieGuy
Denmark4 Posts
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EPT
If they made it 5$, I would consider getting it, and I think that it is a reasonable price, if they are also getting not too low ad revenue.
