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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 17:45 zerglingrodeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 17:42 Vanimar wrote:On February 14 2012 17:40 zerglingrodeo wrote:
I cannot believe all the complaints about this in this thread. $20? Really guys? That is a hell of a deal, and the money supports ESPORTS. Please Read my post on Page 95. It does actually NOT support E-Sports as much as you might think Without any sorts of numbers, the claim that "advertising is better because more people watch" is not helpful to me.
The acutal point was "advertising is better because it opens the product (thus E-Sports) up for a bigger audience, thus making the deciding factor the quality of the event (you event rocks, you get more viewers) which creates a competition among the LAN hosters which will increase the quality and diversity of E-Sports"
I am sorry if this was not expressed
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On February 14 2012 17:45 zerglingrodeo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 17:42 Vanimar wrote:On February 14 2012 17:40 zerglingrodeo wrote:
I cannot believe all the complaints about this in this thread. $20? Really guys? That is a hell of a deal, and the money supports ESPORTS. Please Read my post on Page 95. It does actually NOT support E-Sports as much as you might think Without any sorts of numbers, the claim that "advertising is better because more people watch" is not helpful to me.
Paying people lots of money for something which doesnt improve humanity and is just there for entertainment is not a good thing. Your claim about $20 furthering eSports isnt proven either by numbers, because a lot fewer people will buy that ticket AND there is no free stream, which will reduce the number of people who are able to watch such an event. This actually LESSENS esports (for that event) to the general public and turns it into a "only a those who can afford it" thing. Pure common sense logic which does not need numbers.
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Please close this thread. People are not mature enough to discuss this.
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On February 14 2012 17:48 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 17:45 Jakkerr wrote:On February 14 2012 17:40 zerglingrodeo wrote:
I cannot believe all the complaints about this in this thread. $20? Really guys? That is a hell of a deal, and the money supports ESPORTS. It doesn't. It creates an elitist group of people that can watch a tournament, the SC2 community will shrink in size because of a PPV model, and fact is that the community is nowhere near big enough to have a PPV model. If MLG actually wanted to support E-sports they would have invested in it and make more money later on, when it's actually possible in the long run. MLG is a business and they have every right to do whatever the fuck they want, but that doesn't mean we should all just support such a stupid idea. Elitist? The people who paid 80 bucks for blizzcon must have been billionaires, then.
God's among men they were
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Not that I don't wanna pay but I don't have credit card so I won't able to watch MVP. T_T
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On February 14 2012 17:49 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I am very happy to financially support E-Sports broadcasters and players for providing the content that I love, and I've correspondingly spent a pretty big chunk of change on the sport. I have year passes to the GSL and GSTL, and I bought a gold membership for MLG at the end of 2011 because I was impressed with what they had done that year.
And what is MLG's response to me? Instead of the six pro circuit events that they ran last year, they are now only running five, and they've decided that one of them isn't part of my gold membership package, even though it's part of the year-long tournament that I paid to watch.
This is just straight up sleazy. I'm cancelling my gold membership if it doesn't grant me access to the entire 2012 season.
I think it would actually be 4 of the Events this year will not be included with your gold membership....
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Ok... 20$ for MLG 3 day arena or 7.5euro (if i remember correctly for HSC).
Didn't know that dollar has lost so much value recently.
Ps. For European that price is a joke (well it could be considered if the vods would be avaliable next day to the people who paid that 20$) - no need to pay for sth that i would sleep through half of it.
On the bride side. This MLG idea makes me for once appreciate no spoiler rule on TL. Hope the mods would enforce no talking about MLG for a week till the vods are out.
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By Sundance DiGiovanni For $20 you get a full weekend of nothing but the absolute best StarCraft 2 in the world. That’s roughly the same cost as a trip to the movies (with a stop at the concession stand), a large pizza, a small venue concert, or a round of drinks. Don’t want to buy anything without seeing it first? We agree, and we wouldn’t ask you to. You should know exactly what you’re getting. We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long. Go check out a full demo of the premium streaming page and we promise you’ll be hooked for the entire weekend.
IMO sundance makes a very valid argument. We have been getting a free ride for quite awhile, the MLG experience has always been amazing and high quality and it is well worth paying even $20 for. I see him as someone just trying to make his business sustainable, so it can keep going on and doesn't go bust after 1-2 years when all the "sponsorship money" dries up.
However I do think they have to rework the way they have spent their money. Spending 100k on flights/accommodation for 32 invited players just so they can play live only 20k for prizes is NOT the way to go. Would very much have it the other way around, 100k for prizes, 20k on accommodation/tickets. Hell the best model imo would be 30k Prizes, 20k accomodation, 20k to MLG for admin / bandwidth expense etc and the other 50k is sponsor money wisely saved for the future, or since that money is not used, there isn't the need to charge viewers and everyone watches HD free.
Everything done TSL3 style (which was all online and AMAZING) and perhaps only the finals / Top 4 done live. I still fail to understand the obsession with having tournaments done offline since there are so many more viewers ONLINE then there are offline and they must see the mandatory commercials, overlays etc that sponsors care about and the live audience can simply choose not to see.
Lastly, I do agree with that $10 is a much better pricing, especially since this is their first time ever. They should have aimed to start low if anything so people are more receptive of the idea and upscale if necessary, not the other way around.
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Charging 20$ --> "ok"
Charging 20$ from guys that already paid for Gold --> Shame on you.
Well, Assembly/Asus will be a blast anyway  .
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On February 14 2012 17:45 Jakkerr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 17:40 zerglingrodeo wrote:
I cannot believe all the complaints about this in this thread. $20? Really guys? That is a hell of a deal, and the money supports ESPORTS. It doesn't. It creates an elitist group of people that can watch a tournament, the SC2 community will shrink in size because of a PPV model, and fact is that the community is nowhere near big enough to have a PPV model. If MLG actually wanted to support E-sports they would have invested in it and make more money later on, when it's actually possible in the long run.MLG is a business and they have every right to do whatever the fuck they want, but that doesn't mean we should all just support such a stupid idea.
... I'm sorry but what was MLG 2011 all about? They didn't support eSports then? also Getting broke and dying off now doesn't allow you to profit down the line.
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On February 14 2012 17:54 aLt)nirvana wrote:Show nested quote +By Sundance DiGiovanni For $20 you get a full weekend of nothing but the absolute best StarCraft 2 in the world. That’s roughly the same cost as a trip to the movies (with a stop at the concession stand), a large pizza, a small venue concert, or a round of drinks. Don’t want to buy anything without seeing it first? We agree, and we wouldn’t ask you to. You should know exactly what you’re getting. We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long. Go check out a full demo of the premium streaming page and we promise you’ll be hooked for the entire weekend. IMO sundance makes a very valid argument. We have been getting a free ride for quite awhile, the MLG experience has always been amazing and high quality and it is well worth paying even $20 for. I see him as someone just trying to make his business sustainable, so it can keep going on and doesn't go bust after 1-2 years when all the "sponsorship money" dries up. However I do think they have to rework the way they have spent their money. Spending 100k on flights/accommodation for players and only 20k for prizes is NOT the way to go. Would very much have it the other way around, 100k for prizes, 20k on accommodation/tickets. Everything done TSL3 style (which was all online and AMAZING) and perhaps only the finals / Top 4 done live. I still fail to understand the obsession with having tournaments done offline since there are so many more viewers ONLINE then there are offline and they get to see mandatory commercials, overlays etc that sponsors care about and the live audience can simply choose not to see.
A good argument? Most of us aren't going to fork over $20 for a Tournament when most that last this long are streamed for Free and in better quality than the MLG Quality.
IPL,NASL,IEM,ASSEMBLY,DH List goes on................
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Baltimore, USA22258 Posts
On February 14 2012 17:54 aLt)nirvana wrote:
I still fail to understand the obsession with having tournaments done offline since there are so many more viewers ONLINE then there are offline and they get to see mandatory commercials, overlays etc that sponsors care about and the live audience can simply choose not to see.
Ideally you will have both, but seriously, you cannot beat the experience of seeing an event live in person.
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Oh, and if NASL S1 taught us anything, its don't buy something without first testing it out for a longer period. And at the moment we have nothing to see how good MLG's Arena production will be. Even if we are impressed by Day 1, it might not really continue through the next few days (less interviews maybe, production errors, etc)
Of course we would have to expect something really good, but we expected good from NASL and look how that turned out.
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Not a fan of mainstream marketing. I understand it is probably a necessary part of pushing esports out there but I would much rather just read the results.
It is a pity that there won't be the free streams anymore.
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On February 14 2012 17:57 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 17:54 aLt)nirvana wrote:
I still fail to understand the obsession with having tournaments done offline since there are so many more viewers ONLINE then there are offline and they get to see mandatory commercials, overlays etc that sponsors care about and the live audience can simply choose not to see. Ideally you will have both, but seriously, you cannot beat the experience of seeing an event live in person.
This.
My live event experiences cannot be topped by anything I've ever seen online.
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On February 14 2012 17:54 aLt)nirvana wrote:Show nested quote +By Sundance DiGiovanni For $20 you get a full weekend of nothing but the absolute best StarCraft 2 in the world. That’s roughly the same cost as a trip to the movies (with a stop at the concession stand), a large pizza, a small venue concert, or a round of drinks. Don’t want to buy anything without seeing it first? We agree, and we wouldn’t ask you to. You should know exactly what you’re getting. We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long. Go check out a full demo of the premium streaming page and we promise you’ll be hooked for the entire weekend. IMO sundance makes a very valid argument. We have been getting a free ride for quite awhile, the MLG experience has always been amazing and high quality and it is well worth paying even $20 for. I see him as someone just trying to make his business sustainable, so it can keep going on and doesn't go bust after 1-2 years when all the "sponsorship money" dries up. However I do think they have to rework the way they have spent their money. Spending 100k on flights/accommodation for players and only 20k for prizes is NOT the way to go. Would very much have it the other way around, 100k for prizes, 20k on accommodation/tickets. Everything done TSL3 style (which was all online and AMAZING) and perhaps only the finals / Top 4 done live. I still fail to understand the obsession with having tournaments done offline since there are so many more viewers ONLINE then there are offline and they get to see mandatory commercials, overlays etc that sponsors care about and the live audience can simply choose not to see.
First of all, saying something is well worth paying for isn't an argument as it's completely up to the guy who has to pay to decide.
TSL3 had koreans dropping out early claiming lag issues. Something TL staff tried to brush of as complaints, then the TL team themselves didn't attend the EG team league because they didn't want to play from korea due to lag. Online isn't a good solution and having a venue and actually playing locally ensures there's no cheating and minimal delays.
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I'd say a weekend of MLG is easily comparable in terms of content and production to a UFC fight. Why the reluctance to spend a little bit of money on it?
I think the biggest problem is that SC2 fans have been spoilt for so long and it's always going to be hard transitioning away from a model where so many people get free high quality content. If all tournaments go to this format I think it will be much better for eSports in general.
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I think some tournament organizers think that the community is getting so much for so little but it's not true. Last year only I think I have spend 200$ (if not a lot more) on tournament tickets. It's not my fault that there are so many tournaments and the money spreads so thin.
Trying to take more money from the community is bad. Some tournaments need to die and others to bloom. Sorry to say this but we are oversaturated with good quality sc2 content. Rising the price is a really bad move.
And really MLG, pay per view? Good luck with your 200 viewers. You'd better run 10 ads between games.
User was warned for this post
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Just tell me, what did the gold members get for paying 30$ last year in August?
I don't mind paying for SCII, and I have "supported" Esports in many fucking occasions. I have paid well over 150$ in GSL subscriptions, 20€ in charity, and then some minor amounts for Assembly and HSC.
But I hate it when they just steal my fucking money. tell me, what will gold members get from MLG this year?
Because last year we got nothing extra compared to the 8 million people who just filled in a shitty hot pocket deal and got 3 free silver passes.
I am somewhat mad atm, if you can tell me what I got SCII related from my gold membership I might be able to cool down and continue "supporting" MLG. But now I am just mad.
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risky move my sundance.
would have bought it if it wasn't at the same time as assembly
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EPT
