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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 15:19 quantumslip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:17 Haydin wrote:
Well I'll be watching the Asus ROG tournament then. $20 for a weekend with ads? That's a completely ridiculous price compared to everything MLG has offered previously, as well as every other competitor out there. I mean, it's $5 less than an entire, several month season of GSL! They're really screwing over their gold members here, and pulling this less than a week before the event is not exactly the kind of behavior I've come to expect from MLG.
If MLG wants more of my money, they're going to have to be a lot more reasonable about this. I'm not going to blindly throw money at them. i keep seeing this. what makes you think that you will be seeing ads? how do you know? why are you assuming? and you're not the only one; multiple people in this thread have said that they are not going to pay PPV to see a stream with ads. debate the merits of the PPV model, but don't make baseless accusations like that.
If it was ad free, I'm sure that it would of been highlighted in the MLG anouncement as one of the main reasons to shell out 20$.
And it is not a baseless accusation at all. You mean to tell me that the corporate sponsors of MLG will just go "Oh, I see you are trying to ditch us for good by going the PPV route. It's ok, we're cool with that."? Of course not. The logical thing is that there will be some sort of exposure for them.
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On February 14 2012 15:21 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:16 KiNGxXx wrote:On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends
Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.
It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players. Having friends is not the same as "having friends who like Starcraft and want to watch it". This argument is just silly. You can say it for everything: Too expansive, well, share it with friends! So they have no friends that would lend them a few bucks either? Poor choice of friends.
So, your suggesting he begs for money off his friends rather than watching some free alternatives or skipping the event?
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On February 14 2012 15:19 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:16 juicyjames wrote:On February 14 2012 15:15 domane wrote:On February 14 2012 15:07 Milkis wrote:On February 14 2012 14:59 Brosy wrote:
The problem shouldn't be that MLG is charging for this event, but the way they are handling it.
-They announce 4 days before the event that it will be PPV.
-Gold members are not included
-Sundance has tweeted that MLG will have a package put together for the rest (6 more) of the arenas so people can buy passes in bulk.
They should have implemented a system where if they are making a series of 7 events PPV than have the premium package available before they start. Also to announce that an event is PPV 4 days before the even is completely unprofessional from a business stand point. $20 may not be a large amount of money but when the majority of the viewer base is younger, and unlikely to have established careers, giving short notice on any expense is considerably inconsiderate. They probably started with 20 dollars cause it's always nicer on PR to lower price than to raise prices. So you "experiment" with the higher price first in this case I suppose. It would be interesting if MLG has another step planned and lowers the price to $10 at the last minute. Something like "due to the overwhelming feedback from the community" blah blah blah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_techniqueThe door-in-the-face (DITF) technique is a persuasion method. The persuader attempts to convince someone to comply with a request by first making an extremely large request that the respondent will obviously turn down, with a metaphorical slamming of a door in the persuader's face. The respondent is then more likely to accede to a second, more reasonable request than if this second request were made without the first, extreme request. Robert Cialdini suggests this as a form of reciprocity, i.e. the (induced) sharp negative response to the first request creates a sense of debt or guilt that the second request offers to clear, and the reduced second request is interpreted by the receiver as a concession which is reciprocated by compliance with the request. Alternately, a reference point (or framing) construal may explain this phenomenon, as the initial bad offer sets a reference point from which the second offer looks like an improvement. Door in Face technique doesn't work though if there's a competitive market, though. I mean, we all hold what's a fair price based on what the competition offers them for. I think this is honestly just to see how much demand is there to begin with. They may lower price if they don't think it will meet how much they're hoping to make to see how elastic the price is.
I genuinely think MLG doesn't consider Assembly their competition, or else you are right they most likely wouldn't have pulled such a stunt at all for the event. I think genuinely they didn't consider Assembly's viewers to be intersecting too heavily with their own.
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On February 14 2012 15:25 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:21 Femari wrote:On February 14 2012 15:16 KiNGxXx wrote:On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends
Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.
It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players. Having friends is not the same as "having friends who like Starcraft and want to watch it". This argument is just silly. You can say it for everything: Too expansive, well, share it with friends! So they have no friends that would lend them a few bucks either? Poor choice of friends. So, your suggesting he begs for money off his friends rather than watching some free alternatives or skipping the event?
He should give us an example of the last time he gave money to some of his friends to watch UFC on PPV...
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WOW FUCK THIS. mlg proved last year that they couldnt stop their streams from lagging and the quality was terrible. im out
gsl only for me
once mlg proves they can stop the lag and the issues then maybe, just maybe i will pay but they dont deserve this quite yet
edit: i was a bit aggressive i apologize but just to clarify money is not the issue for me, 20 bucks is 20 bucks. the issue is that every past mlg has had a myriad of technical and lag issues at high resolutions. they haven't released a product yet that is worth 20 dollars is my point. why not make the whole first tourney free to prove that you guys finally have your shit together and then more people will consider paying for a superior product. but if its the same as last year there is absolutely no way ill be paying
doesnt matter if you have 20 friends and im only down 1 dollar. it is bad economics to overpay for a poor product and i will not let them get away with this until they prove they fixed everything. guess ill just be sitting out the first mlg of the year and if the general consensus is that mlg has fixed at least 90% of their issues then i will reconsider. i think what mlg doesnt realize is that most of us will watch ads all day without a care. taking ads away is hardly a bonus
and they better not have more than 5 mins between matches at that price
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On February 14 2012 15:25 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:21 Femari wrote:On February 14 2012 15:16 KiNGxXx wrote:On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends
Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.
It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players. Having friends is not the same as "having friends who like Starcraft and want to watch it". This argument is just silly. You can say it for everything: Too expansive, well, share it with friends! So they have no friends that would lend them a few bucks either? Poor choice of friends. So, your suggesting he begs for money off his friends rather than watching some free alternatives or skipping the event?
Who said anything about begging? I'm pointing out how ridiculous the disgust at $20 is. It's not unobtainable. Yes there is an alternative of Assembly, but lets assume this person would prefer watching players like Mvp and Nestea like I would. You should be able to ask a few friends for a few bucks that you can pay off on later dates because you're their friends and it's only $5 max. I'm sure you could easily find 5 people willing to part $3 and pay the other $5 yourself.
It's so easy to get $20. It's not hard at all. I could get $20 in a day easy just by seeing if anyone had $1.
I'm saying don't give up cause you see $20 and go "That's ridiculous" when you look at all it's paying for, including getting the players there. If you have 10 friends, I'm sure $2 is something they can part with and not care about. All depends on how good of a friend you are to them though and how good of a friend they are.
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On February 14 2012 15:15 Froadac wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
First we had this:
"Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition..."
And now this:
"The MLG Winter Arena PPV Event is not included in any of MLG’s current Membership packages."
And I thought the Gold Package was such a great idea when I paid for it when it came out last year... this is basically bait and switch, I am disgusted with MLG. This is my main problem with this move. Although the $20 is sort of prohibitive for me, I'll watch the VODS. I just feel bad for those of you who bought the pass, and now are expected to tack another $20 on. Not illegal, but sort of unethical.
Yep, guess I will also be watching the ASUS ROG.
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I guess they're about to find out.
There is too much content out there as is. I said it before and I'll say it again. The organizers could benefit from coming together and planning out a world circuit similar to the PGA or WPT.
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let's just say that I am really disappointed for it. Been looking forward to it for a long time...sigh
I am not willing to spent that much money just to watch some matches (which I might not be even able to watch more than half of them)
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On February 14 2012 15:23 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:19 quantumslip wrote:On February 14 2012 15:17 Haydin wrote:
Well I'll be watching the Asus ROG tournament then. $20 for a weekend with ads? That's a completely ridiculous price compared to everything MLG has offered previously, as well as every other competitor out there. I mean, it's $5 less than an entire, several month season of GSL! They're really screwing over their gold members here, and pulling this less than a week before the event is not exactly the kind of behavior I've come to expect from MLG.
If MLG wants more of my money, they're going to have to be a lot more reasonable about this. I'm not going to blindly throw money at them. i keep seeing this. what makes you think that you will be seeing ads? how do you know? why are you assuming? and you're not the only one; multiple people in this thread have said that they are not going to pay PPV to see a stream with ads. debate the merits of the PPV model, but don't make baseless accusations like that. If it was ad free, I'm sure that it would of been highlighted in the MLG anouncement as one of the main reasons to shell out 20$. And it is not a baseless accusation at all. You mean to tell me that the corporate sponsors of MLG will just go "Oh, I see you are trying to ditch us for good by going the PPV route. It's ok, we're cool with that."? Of course not. The logical thing is that there will be some sort of exposure for them.
so then, for the past MLGs, would you count the big Dr. Pepper logo in the background as an ad? and would the short "MLG is sponsored by..." segments between games count as an ad? Do you want/expect those to be blocked and to have casters censor themselves from mentioning those sponsors.
What I'm thinking of is that ads ala twitch.tv when you start a stream that interrupts a stream. That certainly should not be part of the PPV stream, and if I see them pop up when I start my stream, yea then I'll agree with you. But I am fairly certain that based on my experience with last year's premium stream that we will not have ads of that sort.
Sponsors can be still be displayed in a non-interrupting format that still gets facetime with the viewer. You are asking for a sponsor-free event with no form of advertising; are you crazy? Do you expect pro-gamers to cover up company logos to get your precious "ad-free" experience? And when you watch a UFC PPV event, what do you see all over the place? Company logos!
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On February 14 2012 15:23 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 14:59 Brosy wrote:
The problem shouldn't be that MLG is charging for this event, but the way they are handling it.
-They announce 4 days before the event that it will be PPV.
-Gold members are not included
-Sundance has tweeted that MLG will have a package put together for the rest (6 more) of the arenas so people can buy passes in bulk.
They should have implemented a system where if they are making a series of 7 events PPV than have the premium package available before they start. Also to announce that an event is PPV 4 days before the even is completely unprofessional from a business stand point. $20 may not be a large amount of money but when the majority of the viewer base is younger, and unlikely to have established careers, giving short notice on any expense is considerably inconsiderate. The event is 10 days away but even that is very short notice... Something as big as this should be announced at the same time as the tournament. I feel bad for everyone who purchased gold/premium/whatever memberships thinking they were covered for all mlg events  IIRC mlg just did a change in their subscription services (since winter arena's announcement?)... they really should have had this (ppv) information for their customers at that time. As someone who has spent as much as $45 a month to watch UFC fights... $20 is not a bad deal. However, I really wonder if it's a good price point for this fanbase. Despite the number of adult watchers (how much does a round of drinks at a barcraft cost?) I think there are a lot of potential viewers who would be able to watch if it was cheaper. Unfortunately for me, fair =| affordable (especially when there's already a free tournament the same weekend). I think a PPV/subscription model is inevitable for the amount of content some of these tournaments give us... I just don't like the approach mlg has taken here.
They didn't announce it at the same time as the tournament because then they wouldn't of gotten the free hype. Instead all the talk leading up to the event would've been about the PPV. Notice how they announced this shit after they were done with the EU and KR qualifiers and before the NA qualifiers(few give a shit about these). People were getting excited about seeing X and Y who qualified and then SURPRISE pay us $20 to see them!
I'm actually surprised more people aren't talking about the bait and switch with the Gold Subscription. It really is beyond screwed up.
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Hong Kong9165 Posts
If you, as a consumer, do not agree with this, simply do not pay for it. Make your preferences clear by voting with your money and your attention.
It seems pretty bold of MLG to have their first paywall attempt be for an event that runs at the same time as another quality tournament that has, in contrast, a free stream option. Only time will tell if the market can truly support this in both the short and long run.
Winter Arena will have to deliver a significantly compelling product that makes viewers satisfied with their purchases. Otherwise, this move may end up being SC2's 8.95 moment.
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as someone who can spend about 200$ monthly on personal luxury, i'd say 20$ for that is bit too much.
reasoning: a) less bang/buck compared to GSL , b) seems to go above that treshhold of majority of people who would actually pay if it was cheaper
While i have no objections for some tournaments being 100% exclusive for PPV , i think it would "hurt eSports" less if
1) price would be more competitive with GSL ( which has season ticket of 15$ )
2) those who have bought gold membership would not be completely screwed, for example gold membership gets one free arena per year or cheaper tickets
3) there would be something extra in it, not just the 3 days - like if you buy just arena tickets you get HD championship streams ( but no Beta streams ) or something.
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I don't mind paying for a good production, but 20$ kinda seems a lot. That is, if there is going to be an MLG every month or so, and from what I can see, that's not the case. But if MLGs are going to be much more frequent, then I am not sure I am happy about this.
This is going to be interesting to see, I think Sundance has a point, if we really want to see the industry grow, we gotta do something.
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I guess I won't be seeing this then ... Too bad.
I'm cool with suscription (i'm a MLG gold member ), but 20$ for one tournament, now way.
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On February 14 2012 15:31 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:25 DR.Ham wrote:On February 14 2012 15:21 Femari wrote:On February 14 2012 15:16 KiNGxXx wrote:On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends
Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.
It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players. Having friends is not the same as "having friends who like Starcraft and want to watch it". This argument is just silly. You can say it for everything: Too expansive, well, share it with friends! So they have no friends that would lend them a few bucks either? Poor choice of friends. So, your suggesting he begs for money off his friends rather than watching some free alternatives or skipping the event? Who said anything about begging? I'm pointing out how ridiculous the disgust at $20 is. It's not unobtainable. Yes there is an alternative of Assembly, but lets assume this person would prefer watching players like Mvp and Nestea like I would. You should be able to ask a few friends for a few bucks that you can pay off on later dates because you're their friends and it's only $5 max. I'm sure you could easily find 5 people willing to part $3 and pay the other $5 yourself. It's so easy to get $20. It's not hard at all. I could get $20 in a day easy just by seeing if anyone had $1. I'm saying don't give up cause you see $20 and go "That's ridiculous" when you look at all it's paying for, including getting the players there. If you have 10 friends, I'm sure $2 is something they can part with and not care about. All depends on how good of a friend you are to them though and how good of a friend they are.
It's also so easy to get $50.
$20 is a lot for what we're being offered, that's the point.
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first the step that makes it impossible for Silver Members to continue to view MLG Events in HD... even though a Silver member actually pays more than a Gold Member over a 12 month period....
and now Gold Members who were promised this was the premium ticket for viewing all MLG material are told to pay an additional $20 for a 32 player weekend event.
I guess they have to fund this MLG Winter Arena somehow. 
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What's ironic about this is that I'm much more interested and would happily be willing to pay extra for their insane Pro Circuit events. The Arenas are intriguing and I'll give it a trial run but I don't see how some quiet and intimate setting can blow my socks off like the monster truck rally atmosphere of the pro circuits.
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On February 14 2012 15:32 Hrrrrm wrote:
I'm actually surprised more people aren't talking about the bait and switch with the Gold Subscription. It really is beyond screwed up.
I mentioned it earlier, and am actually looking into what legal recourse I have right now. This is a classic example of bait and switch. We were promised X, paid for X, and now we are going to be given Y, which is clearly less content.
I will certainly never buy anything from MLG again. Even if I do nothing else, I am contacting America Express at this very moment and disputing the charge that MLG put on my card, because they won't deliver the services they promised.
I've only had to dispute two charges in my time with American Express and was refunded in full both times. We'll see how it works this time...
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On February 14 2012 15:21 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:16 KiNGxXx wrote:On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends
Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.
It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players. Having friends is not the same as "having friends who like Starcraft and want to watch it". This argument is just silly. You can say it for everything: Too expansive, well, share it with friends! So they have no friends that would lend them a few bucks either? Poor choice of friends.
First, I really hope you don't choose friends based on their ability to loan you money.
Second, borrowing for entertainment is usually a bad idea.
Third, no one is questioning why mlg want's money (original quoted post).
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EPT
