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MLG Winter Arena to be PPV - Page 88

Forum Index > SC2 General
4945 CommentsPost a Reply
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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.

Bans will be handed out.

Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either.
hacky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States63 Posts
February 14 2012 06:11 GMT
#1741
My Gold membership remains a good deal since I'll be using it for Columbus, and presumably a discount off a spectator pass for Anaheim. And I've already gotten a great deal of entertainment from last year's Columbus, Orlando and Providence.

MLG will get my $20 for the Arena weekend. It's now on MLG to impress me enough to make me buy more.

http://raptr.com/hacky
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
February 14 2012 06:13 GMT
#1742
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends

Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.

It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 06:24:01
February 14 2012 06:14 GMT
#1743
First we had this:
"Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition..."

And now this:
"The MLG Winter Arena PPV Event is not included in any of MLG’s current Membership packages."

And I thought the Gold Package was such a great idea when I paid for it when it came out last year... this is basically bait and switch, I am disgusted with MLG. The MLG Winter Arena is essentially a Pro Circuit Event.
domane
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada1606 Posts
February 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#1744
On February 14 2012 15:07 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 14:59 Brosy wrote:
The problem shouldn't be that MLG is charging for this event, but the way they are handling it.

-They announce 4 days before the event that it will be PPV.
-Gold members are not included
-Sundance has tweeted that MLG will have a package put together for the rest (6 more) of the arenas so people can buy passes in bulk.

They should have implemented a system where if they are making a series of 7 events PPV than have the premium package available before they start. Also to announce that an event is PPV 4 days before the even is completely unprofessional from a business stand point. $20 may not be a large amount of money but when the majority of the viewer base is younger, and unlikely to have established careers, giving short notice on any expense is considerably inconsiderate.


They probably started with 20 dollars cause it's always nicer on PR to lower price than to raise prices.

So you "experiment" with the higher price first in this case I suppose.
It would be interesting if MLG has another step planned and lowers the price to $10 at the last minute.

Something like "due to the overwhelming feedback from the community" blah blah blah
AcrosstheSky
Profile Joined January 2011
United States237 Posts
February 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#1745
Damn i'd love to watch but paying to watch starcrat isn't really something i can do due to family views and not having a credit card.
I fully understand that its necessary for a sustainable buisness model but hell it's a shame, I always looked forward to MLG. I wish they could do something like NASL and GSL where just the vods are PPV and the live is free.
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
February 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#1746
On February 14 2012 15:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
First we had this:
"Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition..."

And now this:
"The MLG Winter Arena PPV Event is not included in any of MLG’s current Membership packages."

And I thought the Gold Package was such a great idea when I paid for it when it came out last year... this is basically bait and switch, I am disgusted with MLG.

This is my main problem with this move. Although the $20 is sort of prohibitive for me, I'll watch the VODS. I just feel bad for those of you who bought the pass, and now are expected to tack another $20 on. Not illegal, but sort of unethical.
RajaF
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada530 Posts
February 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#1747
On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends

Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.

It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players.


People have friends. Friends that are into starcraft enough to make it a weekend event, not so much.
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
February 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#1748
If MLG is willing to try this, then I think its safe to say they are going to be bringing something revolutionary to justify it. I disagree with the way they approached it, but the fact that this is so drastic, means that we should be getting something above and beyond ANYTHING else ever done.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
juicyjames *
Profile Joined August 2011
United States3815 Posts
February 14 2012 06:16 GMT
#1749
On February 14 2012 15:15 domane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 15:07 Milkis wrote:
On February 14 2012 14:59 Brosy wrote:
The problem shouldn't be that MLG is charging for this event, but the way they are handling it.

-They announce 4 days before the event that it will be PPV.
-Gold members are not included
-Sundance has tweeted that MLG will have a package put together for the rest (6 more) of the arenas so people can buy passes in bulk.

They should have implemented a system where if they are making a series of 7 events PPV than have the premium package available before they start. Also to announce that an event is PPV 4 days before the even is completely unprofessional from a business stand point. $20 may not be a large amount of money but when the majority of the viewer base is younger, and unlikely to have established careers, giving short notice on any expense is considerably inconsiderate.


They probably started with 20 dollars cause it's always nicer on PR to lower price than to raise prices.

So you "experiment" with the higher price first in this case I suppose.
It would be interesting if MLG has another step planned and lowers the price to $10 at the last minute.

Something like "due to the overwhelming feedback from the community" blah blah blah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique

The door-in-the-face (DITF) technique is a persuasion method. The persuader attempts to convince someone to comply with a request by first making an extremely large request that the respondent will obviously turn down, with a metaphorical slamming of a door in the persuader's face. The respondent is then more likely to accede to a second, more reasonable request than if this second request were made without the first, extreme request. Robert Cialdini suggests this as a form of reciprocity, i.e. the (induced) sharp negative response to the first request creates a sense of debt or guilt that the second request offers to clear, and the reduced second request is interpreted by the receiver as a concession which is reciprocated by compliance with the request. Alternately, a reference point (or framing) construal may explain this phenomenon, as the initial bad offer sets a reference point from which the second offer looks like an improvement.
This Week in SC2Find out what happened 'This Week in Starcraft 2': http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278126
KiNGxXx
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
7928 Posts
February 14 2012 06:16 GMT
#1750
On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends

Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.

It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players.

Having friends is not the same as "having friends who like Starcraft and want to watch it". This argument is just silly. You can say it for everything: Too expansive, well, share it with friends!
MKP|Maru|TaeJa|Mvp|Polt|INnoVation|GuMiho|Bomber|GoOdy|TeamTerran
Haydin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1481 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-14 06:18:45
February 14 2012 06:17 GMT
#1751
Well I'll be watching the Asus ROG tournament then. $20 for a weekend with ads? That's a completely ridiculous price compared to everything MLG has offered previously, as well as every other competitor out there. I mean, it's $5 less than an entire, several month season of GSL! They're really screwing over their gold members here, and pulling this less than a week before the event is not exactly the kind of behavior I've come to expect from MLG.

If MLG wants more of my money, they're going to have to be a lot more reasonable about this. I'm not going to blindly throw money at them. Their product has to give me the same kind of value I can get from their competitors, and this just doesn't do that.
aka ilovesharkpeople
Hamdemon
Profile Joined September 2011
United States348 Posts
February 14 2012 06:19 GMT
#1752
Quite frankly, I never pay for e-sports. I'm a poor college kid, as I'm sure a lot of us are who play this game. I will go to a barcraft and help a business that provides happy hour prices for drinks and snacks and lets me use their bar to watch video games, but I am not paying a cover charge there, all I pay for is food I'm eating (and it's dirt dirt cheap at the one I go to). I'm sure barcrafts can afford $20, but PPV is for stuff that generally people WITH money.

I'm not trying to sound mean, but generally people who have the time to spend all weekend watching an esports tourney are going to be primarily the underemployed, or people in school. People who have busy lives who are fully employed GENERALLY won't be the people doing this kind of stuff. And even if there were, there are dozens of other tourneys NOT charging for usually better games and more reliable amounts of content.

It's pretty obvious to me that at the end of the year MLG was looking and said "Crap we're not making enough money" which is why they cut a ton of their events, their weekly casts and other staff. When I heard that announced I knew trouble was coming. MLG is hurting for money real bad and this is a desperation move that is going to backfire, that's the message they're sending. Maybe they're not hurting for money and it's just greed, but it seems to me they can't pay their bills.
"All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu
baba1
Profile Joined April 2005
Canada355 Posts
February 14 2012 06:19 GMT
#1753
id pay 10$ max
i stopped paying for GSL because they changed their prices
noq uote
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
February 14 2012 06:19 GMT
#1754
On February 14 2012 15:16 juicyjames wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 15:15 domane wrote:
On February 14 2012 15:07 Milkis wrote:
On February 14 2012 14:59 Brosy wrote:
The problem shouldn't be that MLG is charging for this event, but the way they are handling it.

-They announce 4 days before the event that it will be PPV.
-Gold members are not included
-Sundance has tweeted that MLG will have a package put together for the rest (6 more) of the arenas so people can buy passes in bulk.

They should have implemented a system where if they are making a series of 7 events PPV than have the premium package available before they start. Also to announce that an event is PPV 4 days before the even is completely unprofessional from a business stand point. $20 may not be a large amount of money but when the majority of the viewer base is younger, and unlikely to have established careers, giving short notice on any expense is considerably inconsiderate.


They probably started with 20 dollars cause it's always nicer on PR to lower price than to raise prices.

So you "experiment" with the higher price first in this case I suppose.
It would be interesting if MLG has another step planned and lowers the price to $10 at the last minute.

Something like "due to the overwhelming feedback from the community" blah blah blah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique

The door-in-the-face (DITF) technique is a persuasion method. The persuader attempts to convince someone to comply with a request by first making an extremely large request that the respondent will obviously turn down, with a metaphorical slamming of a door in the persuader's face. The respondent is then more likely to accede to a second, more reasonable request than if this second request were made without the first, extreme request. Robert Cialdini suggests this as a form of reciprocity, i.e. the (induced) sharp negative response to the first request creates a sense of debt or guilt that the second request offers to clear, and the reduced second request is interpreted by the receiver as a concession which is reciprocated by compliance with the request. Alternately, a reference point (or framing) construal may explain this phenomenon, as the initial bad offer sets a reference point from which the second offer looks like an improvement.


Door in Face technique doesn't work though if there's a competitive market, though. I mean, we all hold what's a fair price based on what the competition offers them for. I think this is honestly just to see how much demand is there to begin with. They may lower price if they don't think it will meet how much they're hoping to make to see how elastic the price is.
quantumslip
Profile Joined May 2010
United States188 Posts
February 14 2012 06:19 GMT
#1755
On February 14 2012 15:17 Haydin wrote:
Well I'll be watching the Asus ROG tournament then. $20 for a weekend with ads? That's a completely ridiculous price compared to everything MLG has offered previously, as well as every other competitor out there. I mean, it's $5 less than an entire, several month season of GSL! They're really screwing over their gold members here, and pulling this less than a week before the event is not exactly the kind of behavior I've come to expect from MLG.

If MLG wants more of my money, they're going to have to be a lot more reasonable about this. I'm not going to blindly throw money at them.


i keep seeing this. what makes you think that you will be seeing ads? how do you know? why are you assuming? and you're not the only one; multiple people in this thread have said that they are not going to pay PPV to see a stream with ads.

debate the merits of the PPV model, but don't make baseless accusations like that.
rawr!
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
February 14 2012 06:20 GMT
#1756
On February 14 2012 14:55 Akta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 14:44 Corinthos wrote:
The whole 'support esports' movement for merely $20 is bogus. This is a service, and just like any other service people make decisions based on perceived values; be it be valued-based or competitor-based pricing. Something like demographics already speaks volume towards this PPV model. We are aware that MLG has costs and as a business they need to make profit. I feel they haven't performed a thorough marketing analysis; nothing here says 'long term'.

If paying for competitors trips to MLG is costly, then maybe that model or system needs to be reconsidered. I personally do not think they are ready for PPV, and I think it's just bad timing to announce it. I enjoy MLG and I sincerely hope it will go well. Their production has been improving consistently and they always have amazing player pools.
Been thinking about the "charity" aspect as well.

Don't think I'll buy it just to support it but I don't really know why. Perhaps because it wont help anyone else or whatever since there are no free streams for others to watch. Or because I'd rather see other models succeed like dreamhacks, or other innovations.

I mean, why buy something for other reasons than that I think it's worth it when I can't think of any other reason. Can't see how it could attract more future viewers for example, feels more like the opposite. And I don't know how well produced it will be or if there will be tons of boring downtime etc.

I'm not even sure it's good in the long run if the big organizations rely on charity, unlike players and teams where it's more of a sustainable natural part of the revenue..

Something as noble as charity is usually reserved for those less fortunate is probably why you have issue with it. Business is cut throat, Darwinian, high fail rate, and it's participants are not applicable in the less fortunate spectrum. Don't worry. This dying off of uncompetitive products is quite natural and what will happen is what always happens, a premier product or products will emerge and continue bringing you SC at it's very best.
MC for president
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
February 14 2012 06:21 GMT
#1757
On February 14 2012 15:16 KiNGxXx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 15:13 Femari wrote:
I dont see why this is such an issue unless the majority of people on TL do not have friends

Get a few friends, throw some money together, pay for it, watch a ton of starcraft, have fun. Pretty simple.

It's not that much. Also this will be help them pay for paying for everything for the players.

Having friends is not the same as "having friends who like Starcraft and want to watch it". This argument is just silly. You can say it for everything: Too expansive, well, share it with friends!

So they have no friends that would lend them a few bucks either?

Poor choice of friends.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Chronald
Profile Joined December 2009
United States619 Posts
February 14 2012 06:21 GMT
#1758
On February 14 2012 15:16 juicyjames wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2012 15:15 domane wrote:
On February 14 2012 15:07 Milkis wrote:
On February 14 2012 14:59 Brosy wrote:
The problem shouldn't be that MLG is charging for this event, but the way they are handling it.

-They announce 4 days before the event that it will be PPV.
-Gold members are not included
-Sundance has tweeted that MLG will have a package put together for the rest (6 more) of the arenas so people can buy passes in bulk.

They should have implemented a system where if they are making a series of 7 events PPV than have the premium package available before they start. Also to announce that an event is PPV 4 days before the even is completely unprofessional from a business stand point. $20 may not be a large amount of money but when the majority of the viewer base is younger, and unlikely to have established careers, giving short notice on any expense is considerably inconsiderate.


They probably started with 20 dollars cause it's always nicer on PR to lower price than to raise prices.

So you "experiment" with the higher price first in this case I suppose.
It would be interesting if MLG has another step planned and lowers the price to $10 at the last minute.

Something like "due to the overwhelming feedback from the community" blah blah blah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique

The door-in-the-face (DITF) technique is a persuasion method. The persuader attempts to convince someone to comply with a request by first making an extremely large request that the respondent will obviously turn down, with a metaphorical slamming of a door in the persuader's face. The respondent is then more likely to accede to a second, more reasonable request than if this second request were made without the first, extreme request. Robert Cialdini suggests this as a form of reciprocity, i.e. the (induced) sharp negative response to the first request creates a sense of debt or guilt that the second request offers to clear, and the reduced second request is interpreted by the receiver as a concession which is reciprocated by compliance with the request. Alternately, a reference point (or framing) construal may explain this phenomenon, as the initial bad offer sets a reference point from which the second offer looks like an improvement.


This has been plaguing eSports since the beginning. Especially in the West...

MLG sending definite mixed messages that they don't seem to have their story straight.

I can understand the need for increased income and growth, but too much explosive growth causes an even larger collapse.

Gretech, GOM, and GSL have gone slow with changing and adding things with their formats and tournaments because its the proper way to maintain your fans while adding new ones. Makes sense, and is successful, not too sure why MLG would do anything but that. Especially since they are partnered with GSL/Gretech/GOM
Got that.
Rad
Profile Joined May 2010
United States935 Posts
February 14 2012 06:22 GMT
#1759
I passed up the GSTL (my second favorite sc2 to watch, just behind GSL) for this same price. No chance I'll pay it for MLG.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure I'd pay even a few $ to watch it with all the other free (advertisement supported) content out there.

SC2 tourney providers need to realize that this stuff adds up and we're not going to be willing to dish out a lot of money per month just to watch SC2. Give me something like $30 for a year of MLG and you might have me considering it. Bump that up to GSL prices and I'll do the same thing I am with them, paying seasonal for just GSL until enough good free content comes out that I stop for good.
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
February 14 2012 06:23 GMT
#1760
On February 14 2012 14:59 Brosy wrote:
The problem shouldn't be that MLG is charging for this event, but the way they are handling it.

-They announce 4 days before the event that it will be PPV.
-Gold members are not included
-Sundance has tweeted that MLG will have a package put together for the rest (6 more) of the arenas so people can buy passes in bulk.

They should have implemented a system where if they are making a series of 7 events PPV than have the premium package available before they start. Also to announce that an event is PPV 4 days before the even is completely unprofessional from a business stand point. $20 may not be a large amount of money but when the majority of the viewer base is younger, and unlikely to have established careers, giving short notice on any expense is considerably inconsiderate.


The event is 10 days away but even that is very short notice... Something as big as this should be announced at the same time as the tournament.

I feel bad for everyone who purchased gold/premium/whatever memberships thinking they were covered for all mlg events IIRC mlg just did a change in their subscription services (since winter arena's announcement?)... they really should have had this (ppv) information for their customers at that time.

As someone who has spent as much as $45 a month to watch UFC fights... $20 is not a bad deal. However, I really wonder if it's a good price point for this fanbase. Despite the number of adult watchers (how much does a round of drinks at a barcraft cost?) I think there are a lot of potential viewers who would be able to watch if it was cheaper. Unfortunately for me, fair =| affordable (especially when there's already a free tournament the same weekend).

I think a PPV/subscription model is inevitable for the amount of content some of these tournaments give us... I just don't like the approach mlg has taken here.

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