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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
I understand there's costs associated with organizing an event this size, but consider the following:
For one $15 MONTHLY GSL pass, I get the following:
*HQ Stream for the entire season (usually at least as long as a month, sometimes a smidge longer)
*VODs posted usually a few hours after they go live, organize in a neat fashion on a website that is easy and logical to navigate
*All Code S/Code A matches as well as some cool fillers an group selection VODs, etc.
For one $20 WEEKEND MLG pass, I get the following:
*HQ Stream for the weekend only (little over 21 hours of content but seeing as how MLG is notorious for long delays and garbage filler in between, its not exactly 21 hours of games, even with multiple streams)
*VODs that go up "right away," but on a website that has often been criticized as being ridiculously confusing and poorly laid out.
Plus the MLG VODs go up for free a week later, and lets face it: the GSL this season has been absolutely stellar in terms of the quality of games played. I highly doubt MLG can make a similar statement. Thinking $5 might be a reasonable price for a LQ Stream and vods, if they must charge. Maybe $10 for a HQ option.
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On February 14 2012 13:56 csn_JohnClark wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:54 Xiandelle wrote:
I'm not at all concerned with paying for it. Especially considering I'll be hosting a BarCraft for it. I don't mind paying a bit extra for awesome content and the privilege to view it live with 200+ other sc2 fans in the local scene.
There's no way they can hope to continue to grow and produce good stuff if they don't ask for money to see it live. You will have the option of viewing for free a week after the fact... but who wants that? You may want to confirm that you are allowed to stream it to a crowd... in most cases of ppv.. public establishments must pay a higher fee to stream the event to the public. Opps.. I hope I did not remind MLG of that option. Sorry bro.
Their recent actions make me question the sincerity of this quote: "If there are no local Barcrafts, organize one—and let us know your plans so we can help promote it."
Let them know so they can help promote it, or so they can keep tabs on it and charge a higher "broadcasting" price? I don't know if I'm just being paranoid here, or if this is actually the case.
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On February 14 2012 14:02 LoLAdriankat wrote:
$20 is nothing. We have more than a week to save up, even a teenager would be able to pay for it. In my case, all I have to do is not eat out for two days and just make something at home to pay for this...
Wrong... all you have to do is skip the next MLG, then you won't have to pay to watch SC2 ever again. If we crush this uprising convincingly enough, no one should ever dare try this BS again!
My fear is that people will pay for this to "support esports" and then MLG will have started the new trend in SC2.
Do you want free SC2 tournament viewing to go away? Reward MLG at your peril, they are trying to change the SC2 landscape to compensate for their lack of financial success.
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cool something else i will miss on purpose
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On February 14 2012 13:56 csn_JohnClark wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:54 Xiandelle wrote:
I'm not at all concerned with paying for it. Especially considering I'll be hosting a BarCraft for it. I don't mind paying a bit extra for awesome content and the privilege to view it live with 200+ other sc2 fans in the local scene.
There's no way they can hope to continue to grow and produce good stuff if they don't ask for money to see it live. You will have the option of viewing for free a week after the fact... but who wants that? You may want to confirm that you are allowed to stream it to a crowd... in most cases of ppv.. public establishments must pay a higher fee to stream the event to the public. Opps.. I hope I did not remind MLG of that option. Sorry bro.
MLG said that they wanted people to go to Barcrafts if they didn't want to pay for the service up front on their own...>_>
Just because you may not agree with their pricing structure, doesn't mean you should just start badmouthing them.
I'm not going to get this thinger, but in my eyes, if everything I saw for free last year is still viewable for free then I don't give a shit. And based on what they're saying that is indeed the case.
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On February 14 2012 13:48 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:04 feanor1 wrote:On February 14 2012 13:01 DR.Ham wrote:On February 14 2012 12:54 Jibba wrote:On February 14 2012 12:53 XRaDiiX wrote:On February 14 2012 11:23 Jibba wrote:On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken! Youtube lost billions of dollars for years and has only relatively recently begun to make money for Google. Most football, basketball and baseball teams are losing money, which is why they have revenue sharing from the giants. Television is dying with advertising, media is dying with advertising. And the actual truth is that SC2 is dying with advertising. People have been fed a vision of mainstream ESPORTS for too long, and they don't realize people are just taking loss leaders on a hope that's never going to happen. Even the giants in BW have been falling for years. It's a bubble and a niche, and there will never be a viewership that can sustain an advertising based/free system. Never. The entire system is currently reliant on investors, and you can't keep that up. That doesn't sound true at all considering all the leagues that have sustained theirselves over the past year or so on Free streams. If they were losing more money than making wouldn't they just close up shop? Because they'd be bankrupt? A year or two means absolutely nothing, we've seen this all before. They're not in debt, but they're running a deficit. You keep saying that they are losing money, but where do you get this information? @MLGSundance I personally (and MLG) have invested more money into the scene than we have earned. By choice. You have a choice as well. Have a good night. Well I believe him. And last year they had tiny prize pools. I don't think MLG was burning a ton of money last year, but they defiantly lost money. As I said earlier, it's foolish to fly every invitee down when you won't get full value for each personality without a live audience and limited interactive opportunities. This event could be ran like any other online tournament. I get it. They saw what HomeStory Cup did and wanted to do something similar; however, this doesn't fit into their established brand and MLG is constantly changing their model which adds to confusion and unhappy consumers. If I'm on the MLG's board of directors, I'd be asking why the heck they're throwing away all that money in airplane tickets, hotel rooms and food for the players when the exposure to the tournament is getting severed? Where am I getting my value for flying 32 players down to a studio without an audience or other promotional activities? Where is the build-up? Online qualifiers? What will make this different? Without proper fan interaction and other activities taking place you have all the tools to do this online.
I also thought it was weird that they took the initiative to pay for flight, hotel, etc. Maybe they were trying to compete with what IGN did with IGN 3 but now it sounds like they wanted a calm before the storm effect.
Please the fans with some awesome news before releasing the unpopular one.
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MLG is defenitly getting my money they are includeding some of the Top Players in the world Just as the Gsl hands down has far superior games then any other tournament in the world This Mlg will be pulling a close 2nd in best games. Practicly all of the top koreans and all the foriengers who regularly attent gsl will all be participating in this Mlg while assembly is just "foriegners" and some lower caliber GSL koreans to clean up the tournament.
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i dont really watch mlg/assembly, so it doesnt really affect me (bad time zones + limited internet quota)
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I might have bought it but I will be going to Europe during that week and the time difference will suck.
I do think this is eventually going to be a good idea. But call me crazy, but I think this will backfire tremendously. No free stream + another event happening at the same time? I hope for the best but I don't think this is a well thought out decision. What would make more sense is to have this one free and maybe try the new business model on an Arena weekend without much competition from other tournaments. That way, you prove to your fans that these things are awesome, and people will be less hesitant about shelling out $20 for a weekend (when they give up $20 for a month of Code S).
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yeah... this might be ok if the production is off the chain, but tbh like others have said this would mean to follow mlgs or watch them you would need to shell out 120 bucks a year, which just isnt worth it.
the old way of doing things was FINE.
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I would gladly pay for it if i could QQ. not going overboard with the rage because i know that mlg usually delivers very high quality stuff so its ok for them to try to make more cash.
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On February 14 2012 14:10 Himarm wrote:
MLG is defenitly getting my money they are includeding some of the Top Players in the world Just as the Gsl hands down has far superior games then any other tournament in the world This Mlg will be pulling a close 2nd in best games. Practicly all of the top koreans and all the foriengers who regularly attent gsl will all be participating in this Mlg while assembly is just "foriegners" and some lower caliber GSL koreans to clean up the tournament.
Take it easy there first post. Far superior games than anyone in the world? Does MLG have a shill budget for this year too?
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On February 14 2012 14:07 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 14:02 LoLAdriankat wrote:
$20 is nothing. We have more than a week to save up, even a teenager would be able to pay for it. In my case, all I have to do is not eat out for two days and just make something at home to pay for this... Wrong... all you have to do is skip the next MLG, then you won't have to pay to watch SC2 ever again. If we crush this uprising convincingly enough, no one should ever dare try this BS again! My fear is that people will pay for this to "support esports" and then MLG will have started the new trend in SC2. Do you want free SC2 tournament viewing to go away? Reward MLG at your peril, they are trying to change the SC2 landscape to compensate for their lack of financial success.
The best SC2 tournament in the world GSL (Hands down the best.) costs a fee to watch unless u feel like staying up till 5 AM to watch the matches.
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So much for the "love" of eSports when the community whines about $20 three day event where casual fans of boxing will shovel $50 for an evening event. But of course GSL received the same whining and they're doing fine without the penniless kids and cheapskates.
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What people aren't realizing is the fact that MLG is putting the most money into this tournament than ANY tournament has before. Great prize pool, flying out and giving hotel rooms to ALL the players coming, no crowd so can't charge for ticket's and what not. This is a big blow, they normally get thousands out there, they have their online gold memberships and what not, now they don't. I will pay the $20 to watch this, and people had better get used to this, it's the future.
To make it worth it though, we need FUCK TONS of content, I mean imagine if Dream Hack, IPL, and GOMTV all had this crazy orgy and a baby is created with all of their DNA embedded. They stream needs to be flawless. They don't have a crowd to show during breaks, no more war eagle, none of that. We want to see player interviews, over the shoulder cam of other players practicing, pre-made segments, just stuff to watch, we need to be entertained. If us as viewers shell out the $20, you as MLG need perfect stream quality, and shit tons of content.
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ok sundance. say he wants esports to grow, yet hes gonna tax it to death, and he keeping the game from watching. SUNDANCE IS KILLING ESPORTS
User was warned for this post
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my point of view:
1) this is a pathetically written article. Being a business student, I see right through this. You basically suck us off the first couple of paragraphs then break us the news that we have to pay for a 3day tournament that isn't nearly as good as the GSL. Keep in mind it's like 14.99 for a FULL SEASON of GSL CODE S & CODE A every single set in HQ.
2) i think it is unfair to the players attending this tournament because there'll be way fewer viewers thanks to this last minute manditory PPV imposition.
It's as if you guys wrote this with no thought at all. How is a manditory PPV "essential for the growth of esports"? This is a complete attempt at an exploitation of a generous community. Fortunately, you will learn your lesson. Because I'm not alone in saying that not only will I not watch the Arena, but I will never watch any MLG production again. You piss off the internet, shit hits the fan. GSL is where it's at MLG has never come CLOSE to that level so to push it that far... cmon guys!
complete fail IMO glhf though
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On February 14 2012 14:09 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 13:48 StarStruck wrote:On February 14 2012 13:04 feanor1 wrote:On February 14 2012 13:01 DR.Ham wrote:On February 14 2012 12:54 Jibba wrote:On February 14 2012 12:53 XRaDiiX wrote:On February 14 2012 11:23 Jibba wrote:On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken! Youtube lost billions of dollars for years and has only relatively recently begun to make money for Google. Most football, basketball and baseball teams are losing money, which is why they have revenue sharing from the giants. Television is dying with advertising, media is dying with advertising. And the actual truth is that SC2 is dying with advertising. People have been fed a vision of mainstream ESPORTS for too long, and they don't realize people are just taking loss leaders on a hope that's never going to happen. Even the giants in BW have been falling for years. It's a bubble and a niche, and there will never be a viewership that can sustain an advertising based/free system. Never. The entire system is currently reliant on investors, and you can't keep that up. That doesn't sound true at all considering all the leagues that have sustained theirselves over the past year or so on Free streams. If they were losing more money than making wouldn't they just close up shop? Because they'd be bankrupt? A year or two means absolutely nothing, we've seen this all before. They're not in debt, but they're running a deficit. You keep saying that they are losing money, but where do you get this information? @MLGSundance I personally (and MLG) have invested more money into the scene than we have earned. By choice. You have a choice as well. Have a good night. Well I believe him. And last year they had tiny prize pools. I don't think MLG was burning a ton of money last year, but they defiantly lost money. As I said earlier, it's foolish to fly every invitee down when you won't get full value for each personality without a live audience and limited interactive opportunities. This event could be ran like any other online tournament. I get it. They saw what HomeStory Cup did and wanted to do something similar; however, this doesn't fit into their established brand and MLG is constantly changing their model which adds to confusion and unhappy consumers. If I'm on the MLG's board of directors, I'd be asking why the heck they're throwing away all that money in airplane tickets, hotel rooms and food for the players when the exposure to the tournament is getting severed? Where am I getting my value for flying 32 players down to a studio without an audience or other promotional activities? Where is the build-up? Online qualifiers? What will make this different? Without proper fan interaction and other activities taking place you have all the tools to do this online. I also thought it was weird that they took the initiative to pay for flight, hotel, etc. Maybe they were trying to compete with what IGN did with IGN 3 but now it sounds like they wanted a calm before the storm effect. Please the fans with some awesome news before releasing the unpopular one.
Koreans wouldnt come unless MLG paid for it. MLG doesnt just want to pay for the Koreans so they pay for everyone.
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On February 14 2012 14:13 Balgrog wrote:
What people aren't realizing is the fact that MLG is putting the most money into this tournament than ANY tournament has before. Great prize pool, flying out and giving hotel rooms to ALL the players coming, no crowd so can't charge for ticket's and what not. This is a big blow, they normally get thousands out there, they have their online gold memberships and what not, now they don't. I will pay the $20 to watch this, and people had better get used to this, it's the future.
To make it worth it though, we need FUCK TONS of content, I mean imagine if Dream Hack, IPL, and GOMTV all had this crazy orgy and a baby is created with all of their DNA embedded. They stream needs to be flawless. They don't have a crowd to show during breaks, no more war eagle, none of that. We want to see player interviews, over the shoulder cam of other players practicing, pre-made segments, just stuff to watch, we need to be entertained. If us as viewers shell out the $20, you as MLG need perfect stream quality, and shit tons of content.
MLG is putting a lot of money into useless crap, like a venue (NYC) that they are not using to the potential it has, too many streams at the same time and expensive accomodations. The prize pool is not that great now that you take into consideration the price they charge for PPV. And I doubt that we will have even a third of the content you are talking about there.
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I hope this works out for MLG the way they want it to. I'll pay the $20, although it feels little steep. I'll consider it a $10 donation on top of what seems like it should be a $10 ticket. I'm assuming they have professionals who think they are more likely to get 5k viewers at $20 each than 10k viewers at $10 each.
I agree with the posters that the GSL is better value, but I'll still pony up for both. I have a job, though, so the money isn't a big deal. And I do like the excitement of a packed weekend of MLG as a change of pace from a few great games every morning from Korea.
But don't most PPV sports specials have an audience and ticket sales on top of the PPV revenue? I mean, you're in NYC, seems like you could fill a big theater or small arena at least. Wouldn't that generate more revenue and help cover your costs, salaries, etc?
I hope you know what you are doing Sundance. You're the best hope esports has in the US right now. Good luck.
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EPT
