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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
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On February 14 2012 08:47 Kreb wrote:Poll which might be of interest; Poll: Main reason you're not paying?$20 is just too much for the content you get (121) 58% By principle, Im just not supporting a business model like this, it should be free (42) 20% Wont be able to follow whole tourny due to time zone differences, thus making it not worth it (22) 10% Rather watch Assembly, might have payed if timing was better (13) 6% Would like to pay, but Im too poor (9) 4% I cannot pay (3) 1% 210 total votes Your vote: Main reason you're not paying? (Vote): $20 is just too much for the content you get
(Vote): Would like to pay, but Im too poor
(Vote): Wont be able to follow whole tourny due to time zone differences, thus making it not worth it
(Vote): Rather watch Assembly, might have payed if timing was better
(Vote): By principle, Im just not supporting a business model like this, it should be free
(Vote): I cannot pay
Can we add to that "The quality of sc2 games are not nearly high enough yet to justify me paying 20$ for a weekend of games"?
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Well to be honest, MLG is right on their part to make it a PPV given the cost incurred...But then to be really honest, in this economy, I really cannot afford $20 to spend on eSports PPVs. May be next year, when I graduate and get a full time job, I will..but as of now Assembly it is...and with that said, I will actively look in liquipedia for results and standing. Sorry MLG, but $20 is very high. You could offer a free stream in LQ like GSL does,and limit the total streams allowed to be opened at once to 1. But then its your decision to go for a PPV and mine not to spend on it...
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tournament with great lineup for $20 in europe unfriendly time
or
free tournament with very good lineup (and stephano! ^_^) in europe
What shall I choose??
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On February 14 2012 08:46 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 08:43 Skwid1g wrote:On February 14 2012 08:38 Pholon wrote:
70$ for a full year of GSL (highest quality games, every single day) vs this. Won't be paying. People who say PPV is the only way to grow esports seem highly uncreative. BW did fine for 10 years running non-profit. Hmmm... meh. Ugh... this argument makes my head hurt every time I see it. BW was/is completely Korean. The biggest problem for teams/players/events is travel costs, which were/are nonexistent in BW. Flying players from all over the world to NY is a HUGE investment, having Koreans show up to the GOM studio is not. With that being said, I think the price is a little bit too high, but they'll most likely lower it in the future. I'm also chuckling at the "MLG IS SO GREEDY" and "MLG IS SCAM!!!" posts, as if it doesn't cost them a ridiculous amount of money to run these tournaments. During BWs peak im pretty sure they could afford this, given that some of the top tier players were on $200k salaries back then. The difference between BW/SC2 is that BW (somewhat) made the leap into the mainstream where non-niche products could be advertised (such as, gilette, coke, bacchus and various mobile phone corps)
Some of the top tier are still on 200k+ I think. It was also the advantage of being able to air your game on a television and benefit from ad revenue that was a big deal. Unless they are planning a global television station (which do exist) then there is no feasable way to duplicate the ad revenue.
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On February 14 2012 08:48 Vantasist wrote:
I just can't afford it honestly. It's a real shame they're doing, I understand they have to.. but bottom line I think this is really going to hurt MLG.
20$ may seem like nothing to most of you but college/housing is a real bitch. I'm really going to miss my MLG weekends, but not enough to pay 20$.
I feel exactly the same way. In college, people don't have parents that can toss in $100 whenever you need money.
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To people saying 20$ for a weekend of entertainement is ok, I could eat for a week for 20$ seriously.
+ I'm so butthurt having a fucking gold MLG membership when the first MLG event there is I have to pay 20$ to see, it's fucking ridiculous
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 14 2012 08:47 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 08:36 Plexa wrote:On February 14 2012 08:23 nick1689 wrote:
I dont get this community sometimes... You expect MLG to put this show on for free? Theyre spending $100k+ on bringing together the best starcraft 2 players in the world, putting on high production, and youre telling them to fuck off? For 20 bucks? Thats being selfish, and asking for way more than you deserve. So many spoiled brats who don't appreciate anything
Guess whats happens if MLG doesnt make money? No more tournies. Are you going to complain when that happens as well? Some people expect a higher standard before parting ways with $20. I dare say, the only tournament at that level is the GSL right now and even then its debatable. MLG should be doing whatever makes the most business sense for them, and if they fail it will suck but it's likely that the scene is over saturated with tournaments at the moment and some will need to go under before things are sustainable. If that is MLG, then so be it. I believe MLG has the most compelling story lines of any tournament. This arena event, we have some absolutely amazing players from each region. I am far more interested in watching MLG than I am GSL. I'm still getting the best Koreans, but I also have the foreigner vs korean dynamic that we rarely see in GSL. Also its not on at 2 am. Its much easier to watch live, which is the best way of watching sc2. Also the streaming quality will be better than what GOM offers. GSL's free stream is a joke. NASL's 360p stream is as nice as GSL's hq stream. DH, IEM, Asus, HSC, they can't boast the Korean talent that MLG is offering here. GSL can't boast the foreign talent MLG is offering here. This is a premier product and event. Its gonna cost you some money. $20 for a weekend of entertainment is a damn good deal. You want eSports to grow? Well this is it.
Then by all means pay, as you are paying for all the right reasons. For me personally, I think it isn't worth the money particularly when I can watch similar content quality outside of this weekend for free. Paying to support esports is the wrong idea, you should be paying to support the tournaments you like - as you are doing, so kudos.
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Proleague and Assembly is enough to get me by. The MLG VODS are coming a week after so it would be silly to blow 20 dollars for this.
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I'm a bit torn because I would like to support eSports, and I can understand their decision. But even though I enjoyed what I've seen of past MLGs so far..... $20 seems a bit much.
No MLG for me this time. It's at impossible hours for me anyway, and paying $20 for VODs... nah. I'll pass on this one.
Assembly ftw! ^^
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$20 for 20 hours is expensive, even if I could catch the whole event, which probably isn't the case since I'm in Europe, and I also don't want to sit and watch 7 hours of SC for 3 days straight.
My GSL light pass was like $15 or $20 and, while I'm sure MLG will put on a great event, I don't think they're yet ready to compete with the GSL yet. I feel like $7.50 is a much more reasonable price, $10 would make buying or not buying a tough decision, but 20 is just too much. I'll watch assembly and try and avoid spoilers on TL till the vods are free.
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On February 14 2012 08:39 hoby2000 wrote:
Oh my god. This thread is making me facepalm so hard.
You guys want esports to grow, but when the opportunity arises, you decide that it's a bad idea. The majority of you complaining about this are not thinking this through very clearly. Yeah, it's $20 for only 3 days. Do you know how businesses grow though? They do things like PPV, where they don't have to keep pouring their own money into a product.
I don't know. I can't even begin to tell you how disgusted I am at most of you replying with "Oh my god, $20 is dumb. Not watching. horrible idea." Get real. If you guys actually understood how the real world works, you wouldn't be complaining and would be advocating this idea. But it seems you all live with your parents, or someone still pays for your shit.
This thread is making me facepalm so hard but not because of people saying they wont pay. What's making me facepalm hard is all the comments calling people who wont pay "spoiled" and insulting them. If you don't think it's worth the money you shouldn't pay just to support MLG and NONE has the right to complain about that. If you want e-sports to grow we need people to buy content because it's worth it not to support the company doing it else we're doing them a disservice in the long run.
Also you're a horrible human.
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On February 14 2012 08:49 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 08:47 Kreb wrote:Poll which might be of interest; Poll: Main reason you're not paying?$20 is just too much for the content you get (121) 58% By principle, Im just not supporting a business model like this, it should be free (42) 20% Wont be able to follow whole tourny due to time zone differences, thus making it not worth it (22) 10% Rather watch Assembly, might have payed if timing was better (13) 6% Would like to pay, but Im too poor (9) 4% I cannot pay (3) 1% 210 total votes Your vote: Main reason you're not paying? (Vote): $20 is just too much for the content you get
(Vote): Would like to pay, but Im too poor
(Vote): Wont be able to follow whole tourny due to time zone differences, thus making it not worth it
(Vote): Rather watch Assembly, might have payed if timing was better
(Vote): By principle, Im just not supporting a business model like this, it should be free
(Vote): I cannot pay
Can we add to that "The quality of sc2 games are not nearly high enough yet to justify me paying 20$ for a weekend of games"?
I cant imagine what more quality someone would want out of there sc2 games. You have a ton of the best foreigners combined with an elite list of korean talent going to NY to compete.
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If only there was a discount for gold members!
I also support the feeling that if it was 10 bucks instead of 20 it would be far easier to purchase it. 20 bucks isn't a problem; the problem is 20 bucks at once.
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On February 14 2012 08:47 Hrrrrm wrote:Part of me feels that MLG is trying to recoup the cost of paying for all the players travels on the viewers dime. The majority of the players are on freaking teams, it's their teams responsibility to get them to events.
I think this is a key point, the flights are going to cost MLG a ton and this may be a way that helps to re-coup. These free flights for the players are of no tangible benefit for the end-viewer which makes it a surprising policy, I didn't realise many teams had refused to fly players around?
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I would pay 20 dollars if I was going to watch all the content over the 3 days. I won't though, when MLG is on I always catch bits a pieces here and there and tune in come championship Sunday. For the amount of games I will end up catching 20 dollars isn't worth it for me.
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On February 14 2012 08:47 ELA wrote:
I think it's interesting, that Sundance has chosen to spend so much money on players' travel expenses - Dosn't the players teams / sponsors handle this fine at the moment? If the right amount of Prize money is there, don't you think the players will be there?
Isn't it up to 1,000.00 USD each for all 32 players in travel expenses? You could make quite a sick prizepool for that.. Or make a stream.. Not PPV :-)
I realize that Korean teams still don't have money to send over a lot of players, but honestly, there are quite a alot foreigners that I would really like to watch battle it out in a tournament such as this - A few koreans would be awesome, but not a must for it to be worth my time... Maybe its just me though :-)
A lot of the foreign teams also don't operate on unlimited budgets to sent their players around the world constantly to compete in tournaments. It's not just the Koreans who are benefiting from this Arena model.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 14 2012 08:49 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 08:46 Plexa wrote:On February 14 2012 08:43 Skwid1g wrote:On February 14 2012 08:38 Pholon wrote:
70$ for a full year of GSL (highest quality games, every single day) vs this. Won't be paying. People who say PPV is the only way to grow esports seem highly uncreative. BW did fine for 10 years running non-profit. Hmmm... meh. Ugh... this argument makes my head hurt every time I see it. BW was/is completely Korean. The biggest problem for teams/players/events is travel costs, which were/are nonexistent in BW. Flying players from all over the world to NY is a HUGE investment, having Koreans show up to the GOM studio is not. With that being said, I think the price is a little bit too high, but they'll most likely lower it in the future. I'm also chuckling at the "MLG IS SO GREEDY" and "MLG IS SCAM!!!" posts, as if it doesn't cost them a ridiculous amount of money to run these tournaments. During BWs peak im pretty sure they could afford this, given that some of the top tier players were on $200k salaries back then. The difference between BW/SC2 is that BW (somewhat) made the leap into the mainstream where non-niche products could be advertised (such as, gilette, coke, bacchus and various mobile phone corps) Some of the top tier are still on 200k+ I think. It was also the advantage of being able to air your game on a television and benefit from ad revenue that was a big deal. Unless they are planning a global television station (which do exist) then there is no feasable way to duplicate the ad revenue.
Yes the top tier are really raking it in atm as far as I understand, but everyone else is getting shafted  I think there is less overall money but that's just a guess based on my observations.
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Maybe I'd pay if the skill level was top notch but it's not.. too many foreigners. Not going to pay $20 to watch Incontrol cannon rush while Catz is doing a proxy hatch.
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It is true that eSports goes nowhere without adding pricetags to this, but SCII is suffering from over globalization. ( A term i just made up.)
In BW days I'm sure a good chunk of cash was made from the live audience, which simply is NOT an option when you have people competing not only from korea, but the americas and europe.
So we have to do PPV, but again SCII gets shafted by what BW was like. I can have a fairly similar entertainment value watching Playhem, free, as I would watching MLG, paid. SCII is easier than BW, it is harder to distinguish between Nestea and Idra than Savior and Effort (pairs of players who played very similarly, but you always knew who it was.)
And no, I am not a BW elitist. I joined this eSports community in March 2011, SC2 is the only competitive game I play and I can see this issue.
The PR machine needs to be much stronger for SCII for this type of PPV to work. The fans need to have an emotional attachment to a players victories and losses. We have to stop having Artosis orgasm over every guy who ever took a shit on the gsl stage and let the fans get to the know the players and cheer for them.
I personally am always somewhat emotionally invested in to Kas's performance. However this player has very little PR outside of europe and I really can't explain why I just LOVE watching him ever since I discovered eSports last year.
I don't think MLG understands that it is not the highest level of games in the world. I will still stay up to watch GSL at 2 in the morning on my low quality free stream, and I don't really care if MLG comes and goes as long as I get the replays of players I am interested in.
Perhaps replays can be their selling point?
I am rambling, whatever I'm gunna go play some games 
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On February 14 2012 08:46 quantumslip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 08:44 Jakkerr wrote:On February 14 2012 08:39 hoby2000 wrote:
Oh my god. This thread is making me facepalm so hard.
You guys want esports to grow, but when the opportunity arises, you decide that it's a bad idea. The majority of you complaining about this are not thinking this through very clearly. Yeah, it's $20 for only 3 days. Do you know how businesses grow though? They do things like PPV, where they don't have to keep pouring their own money into a product.
I don't know. I can't even begin to tell you how disgusted I am at most of you replying with "Oh my god, $20 is dumb. Not watching. horrible idea." Get real. If you guys actually understood how the real world works, you wouldn't be complaining and would be advocating this idea. But it seems you all live with your parents, or someone still pays for your shit. By all means, please pay $20 so you and 5k(max) other people can watch a weekend of games. PPV is a quick way to make money, MLG doesn't give a shit if E-sports grows. Because if there is a way too watch it for free the game can actually grow, more people can find out about it and so on. If you go PPV on a fkin game with such a small fanbase you just want to make some quick money. wheee the scam accusations keep coming! yea just keep telling yourself that, and MLG will become a scam -_-;;; seriously? you really think MLG is out to take your money? MLG would be long gone ago (they didn't start with SC2) if they were there just to scam you. Look at Sundance's body of work, they speak volumes about his committment to e-sports.
I'm not accusing any1 of anything.
I'm just saying that no1 in their right mind can think that PPV is a proper way for something we want to grow.
There aren't enough fans/viewers to EVER sustain a PPV system in the long run, there is no way.
The only way to make that happen is to bring more people into the game, which is partially done by tournaments being accesible to every1.
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EPT
