EPTMLG Winter Arena to be PPV - Page 244
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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit. Bans will be handed out. Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. | ||
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Flaccid
8917 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On April 21 2012 14:29 ke_ivan wrote: Wait, there are 3 spring events? So 3 spring arenas? Because Spring Championships are free for gold membership holders. no, 2 arenas and the Spring championship. Its $30 for all 3 for non gold members. If you are a gold member you only pay $15 for the two arenas. | ||
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sneakz
Australia12 Posts
On a serious note, no gamer should be expected to pay for a stream. The internet isn't cable television so stop treating it as such. I'm sure the company is making enough money through ticket sales irl and sponshorships. So stop being American Capatlists and stop pretending the internet is serious business. If I was rich I would pay the money to help gamers make some more cash. But when you are paying for something that is never going to get back to the gamers, then I refuse to pay it. It's going to go in the pockets of the people up top. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
On April 21 2012 14:43 sneakz wrote: I really do hope the oh so intelligent people running mlg die in in a fire. On a serious note, no gamer should be expected to pay for a stream. The internet isn't cable television so stop treating it as such. I'm sure the company is making enough money through ticket sales irl and sponshorships. So stop being American Capatlists and stop pretending the internet is serious business. If I was rich I would pay the money to help gamers make some more cash. But when you are paying for something that is never going to get back to the gamers, then I refuse to pay it. It's going to go in the pockets of the people up top. Are you a moron? First internet is serious business... What do you tell major companies like Twiter, Facebook, Google... Who made millions of millions on the internet. Second The money is going back to the pro gamers because the more people watch the more MLG expands the prize pool rises etc etc. Third MLG is not as rich as you would think. I actually heard they still have a debt from before they got a lot of exposure from SC2. They are still making the money back. You are probably one of those stupid conspiracy theorists aren't you? | ||
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
On April 21 2012 13:11 SnipedSoul wrote: I can't believe that $10 is such a huge amount of money for people. If you have trouble scraping together $10 for a weekend of SC2 you might want to get off the computer and look for a job. It's funny people spend 10$ on a lot dumber shit. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On April 21 2012 14:43 sneakz wrote: I really do hope the oh so intelligent people running mlg die in in a fire. On a serious note, no gamer should be expected to pay for a stream. The internet isn't cable television so stop treating it as such. I'm sure the company is making enough money through ticket sales irl and sponshorships. So stop being American Capatlists and stop pretending the internet is serious business. If I was rich I would pay the money to help gamers make some more cash. But when you are paying for something that is never going to get back to the gamers, then I refuse to pay it. It's going to go in the pockets of the people up top. boy are you gonna hate the future. the internet is turning more and more into cable tv with people realizing they can get all their content online. Stuff like Hulu Plus, HBO GO, Netflix and so on are becoming more and more prevalent. Every major sporting league has their games online like NBA League Pass and MLB.tv. Also ESPN is shopping their network to ISP's similarly to how they do to TV providers. And I didnt know holding an event where nearly $11,000 is being giving away isn't getting back to the gamers, who went to the event for free btw. | ||
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On April 21 2012 14:54 jmbthirteen wrote: And I didnt know holding an event where nearly $11,000 is being giving away isn't getting back to the gamers, who went to the event for free btw. Except we know nothing of the percentages, revenue, costs, etc... to even claim that's a worthwhile amount. Context is completely relevant. | ||
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sneakz
Australia12 Posts
On April 21 2012 14:49 thezanursic wrote: Are you a moron? First internet is serious business... What do you tell major companies like Twiter, Facebook, Google... Who made millions of millions on the internet. Second The money is going back to the pro gamers because the more people watch the more MLG expands the prize pool rises etc etc. Third MLG is not as rich as you would think. I actually heard they still have a debt from before they got a lot of exposure from SC2. They are still making the money back. You are probably one of those stupid conspiracy theorists aren't you? To be honest, I knew they had debt from when the US collpapsed. After the css (cant remember the tournament name) tournaments a while back, they pretty much shut up shop for a few years. The internet may be very profitable to the tiny percentage of companies who make it big, but come on. The money isn't entirely going back to the gamers. Obviously there is a company who also needs to show profits to keep the ball rolling. If they really wanted to expand the prize pool why spend sooo much money on the aesthetic side of mlg? Why the hell do they need to spend 10's of thousands on lighting etc? It's not the superbowl is it? Mlg will probably end up losing money by making it ppv, because the viewing numbers are going to be so dramatically lowered next time sponsors are looking at advertising opportunities they are just going to laugh. I am the opposite of a conspiracy theorist to be honest, Reason backed by evidence and logic. And I think my argument is pretty reasonable. | ||
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sneakz
Australia12 Posts
On April 21 2012 14:54 jmbthirteen wrote: boy are you gonna hate the future. the internet is turning more and more into cable tv with people realizing they can get all their content online. Stuff like Hulu Plus, HBO GO, Netflix and so on are becoming more and more prevalent. Every major sporting league has their games online like NBA League Pass and MLB.tv. Also ESPN is shopping their network to ISP's similarly to how they do to TV providers. And I didnt know holding an event where nearly $11,000 is being giving away isn't getting back to the gamers, who went to the event for free btw. Yeah I know, the internet just isn;t the internet anymore. But people who are willing to pay for stuff like this are the ones ruining it. And just because the US has decided that profit is the only important thing about the internet doesn;t mean the rest of the world gives ANY f*cks.  I like you, and don't call me boy xD. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On April 21 2012 15:01 divito wrote: Except we know nothing of the percentages, revenue, costs, etc... to even claim that's a worthwhile amount. Context is completely relevant. Its still money getting back to the gamers and if this wasn't PPV, it wouldn't happen. On April 21 2012 15:03 sneakz wrote: To be honest, I knew they had debt from when the US collpapsed. After the css (cant remember the tournament name) tournaments a while back, they pretty much shut up shop for a few years. The internet may be very profitable to the tiny percentage of companies who make it big, but come on. The money isn't entirely going back to the gamers. Obviously there is a company who also needs to show profits to keep the ball rolling. If they really wanted to expand the prize pool why spend sooo much money on the aesthetic side of mlg? Why the hell do they need to spend 10's of thousands on lighting etc? It's not the superbowl is it? Mlg will probably end up losing money by making it ppv, because the viewing numbers are going to be so dramatically lowered next time sponsors are looking at advertising opportunities they are just going to laugh. I am the opposite of a conspiracy theorist to be honest, Reason backed by evidence and logic. And I think my argument is pretty reasonable. I highly doubt MLG is losing money by going PPV. The winter arena was their PPV test and they did better than expected. Do you realize this is MLG's second PPV going on this weekend and that the first one was highly successful? On April 21 2012 15:06 sneakz wrote: Yeah I know, the internet just isn;t the internet anymore. But people who are willing to pay for stuff like this are the ones ruining it. And just because the US has decided that profit is the only important thing about the internet doesn;t mean the rest of the world gives ANY f*cks. I like you, and don't call me boy xD. Except what is being ruined? Everything that is coming on the internet (like HuluPlus and HBO GO), it was stuff you always had to pay for. You just paid for it on TV rather than on the internet. MLG is still offering their big championship events for free. They have just added PPV events to what they do. Your not getting any less. Your actually getting more because Arena qualifiers are free to watch. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
MLG would do the same, but the issue here is that there are so many tournaments for SC2 all the time, GSL, IPL, NASL (which is very good now, Bitterdam is the best thing to ever have happened to NASL), Dreamhack, various streams etc. The core issue is that its the same players, casters and often even a better production at other events. There is no feeling that i am missing out on something. I also bought Trials Evolution on XBLA for 10ish dollars and that game will last me forever. And most of you know what bargains you can get on Steam for that kind of money. So yes, 10 dollars aint much, but my point is that i can buy far better things with it than to watch another SC2 event with the same players and casters. I rather have a game or blu ray movie i really enjoy, but thats just me. Im finding it hard to even follow some of the tournaments that are free, and now you want me to pay? Its well within their rights, but its also my right to refuse. If SC2 esports was more exclusive, "rare" and better built up so that it felt like the event actually mattered Why am i paying money to watch Rashad vs Bones Jones tonight (saturday) a UFC event? Because that "product" has been built up, that feud has been going on for 3 years almost, and now the student vs teacher is getting into the ring. It feels like a story i want to see the end off. Whats the story for MLG? Just another SC2 tournament, its not like its the first tournament where FLASH or JAEDONG will attend and play. But whatever, good luck to MLG. I do want them to do well | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance Following Wow. Based on day one sales an 8 man arena is viable. Thank you to all those who went all in with us. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
Even though the top 8 at MLG are really good players I see them play around all the time. Why should I pay MLG to give me the same thing again but for money? And for all those who say that 10$ is nothing the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the context, the market they charge it in is what matters. Dreamhack is today and free. Will definitely follow that. IPL 4 gave us a lot more for the lousy 5$ for premium. And it had a free stream. I just bought to support the event. I did that because of the way they treat their customers. There was a TED Talk where a dude said this interesting thing : "Customers don't spend money for the product, they spend money for the company and its ideals". I feel MLG is not my kind of company and I don't like helping them. On April 21 2012 15:26 jmbthirteen wrote: I'm just gonna leave this here: https://twitter.com/#!/MLGSundance/status/193585318363013120 8 players x 3000$ accommodations (value from Sir Scoots) = 24.000$. Add bonus pool of 10.000$. Add 6000$ for different things. We get a total of 40.000$ costs. That means ~4000 people watched MLG. Explains the small LR thread. Not losing money is good, but it doesn't mean real growth. I wonder how much money did IPL 4 get from 100.000 people seeing ads. | ||
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
So what if you convinced everybody not to pay, you seriously think MLG/Esports can survive by offering everything for free? Your naive thinking of this real world is not going to help you. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On April 21 2012 16:00 Zaurus wrote: Is perfectly ok not to pay. I just find it ridiculous that you have to slammed MLG and those that paid. Those that actually bother to pay are the ones keeping esports alive. You think advertiser care about free loaders? If you are unwilling to spend a few dollars, I don't see how the advertisers can dig anything from you. What do you actually know about business model? If you are just a kid, don't go around throwing your weights base of what others are saying. There is no need to feel angry over something you are not willing to pay, is stupid. So what if you convinced everybody not to pay, you seriously think MLG/Esports can survive by offering everything for free? Your naive thinking of this real world is not going to help you. Sundance got to your soul. | ||
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On April 21 2012 15:14 jmbthirteen wrote: Its still money getting back to the gamers and if this wasn't PPV, it wouldn't happen. It wouldn't? There are no other non-PPV events that pay players? | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On April 21 2012 15:38 ceaRshaf wrote: I did not pay for this last event. I am over saturated already by sc2. In the weekdays I come for work and happily follow IPL and NASL every day and in the weekends, if I have free time, there are often enough big tournaments with free stream. Even though the top 8 at MLG are really good players I see them play around all the time. Why should I pay MLG to give me the same thing again but for money? And for all those who say that 10$ is nothing the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the context, the market they charge it in is what matters. Dreamhack is today and free. Will definitely follow that. IPL 4 gave us a lot more for the lousy 5$ for premium. And it had a free stream. I just bought to support the event. I did that because of the way they treat their customers. There was a TED Talk where a dude said this interesting thing : "Customers don't spend money for the product, they spend money for the companies ideals". I feel MLG is not my kind of company and I don't like helping them. 8 players x 3000$ accommodations (value from Sir Scoots) = 24.000$. Add bonus pool of 10.000$. Add 6000$ for different things. We get a total of 40.000 costs. That means ~4000 people watched MLG. Explains the small LR thread. Not losing money is good, but it doesn't mean real growth. I wonder how much money did IPL get from 100.000 people seeing ads. You are missing so many costs dude. They have brought in 10 casters an analysts which you didn't factor in. That alone goes above your $6000 for different things. Along with production costs. The number is safely above $40,000. And this event isn't about growing the scene. Its about making MLG a sustainable business. Being able to run this tournament off PPV sales is a HUGE step forward to the scene. The championship events are where MLG is trying to bring in new fans. PPV is for the diehards. Ad revenue on twitch (pre CBSi deal, not sure how much it will change now) is not something you can just rely on. IPL most definitely lost a TON of money on IPL 3 and IPL 4. Ad revenue doesn't even come close to paying for it. EDIT: Also while the costs are lower for Spring Arena 1, dont forget that Winter Arena was a success for MLG as well. That had 32 players and a $26,000 prize pool. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On April 21 2012 16:02 divito wrote: It wouldn't? There are no other non-PPV events that pay players? I'm talking about these arenas specifically. In the current market, MLG would not be able to run these events without PPV. | ||
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On April 21 2012 16:03 jmbthirteen wrote: I'm talking about these arenas specifically. In the current market, MLG would not be able to run these events without PPV. If we assume what the figures are, perhaps. They could have moved to PPV because they wanted to increase their margins. It's not that they couldn't run the events, it's that they have acquired a lot of capital with slim margins, and now they have to try and reap what they can from the audience to make it worthwhile for their investors, to at least make their money back. That doesn't even say enough about whether this will be sustainable, or whether they are able to, or willing, to include aspects of investment, development, and future growth in with that. MLG underestimated their audience when moving to PC competition and the online realm outside of consoles. They've quickly seen the potential, and the headaches associated with this market, but they're still quite guarded. In our generation, and in the online world, transparency is king; MLG is almost anything but in my opinion. | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
Watch what you want to watch. The tournaments that find effective ways to manage costs will survive, the ones that won't, won't. MLG doesn't deserve any loyalty from us, in my opinion. | ||
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