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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
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On April 21 2012 17:18 aicaramba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 16:50 nakedsurfer wrote:On April 21 2012 16:31 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:26 aicaramba wrote:On April 21 2012 14:51 thezanursic wrote:On April 21 2012 13:11 SnipedSoul wrote:
I can't believe that $10 is such a huge amount of money for people. If you have trouble scraping together $10 for a weekend of SC2 you might want to get off the computer and look for a job. It's funny people spend 10$ on a lot dumber shit. Ohh, I can afford it, easily. But do I think its worth the money?? Well... No. For 10 euro, I can get 2 cheaper sets of ppv channels on tv for an entire month. Or get one more expensive set of channels for an entire month.. 10$ for one weekend is just not worth it to me. And thats just without the fact that yesterdays games were broadcasted from 1 am to 7 am in my timezone. And for the guy who said that he goes to a 120 minute movie for the money of 24 hours of starcraft tournament so it's totally worth it he doesn't take in account how much money a movie production costs in comparison to a tournament. In that regard MLG is totally not worth it. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? Obviously i'm pulling these numbers out of my ass because i'm too lazy to check but i'm sure you get the picture. It gets sooo many more eyes on it. Not only that but it's in the theatre for about a week or two and then sells on dvd. So they make profit on that as well. Whereas MLG gives the VODS to you for free afterwards. So you really can't compare the two. If you were to, then it's a pretty damn safe assumption that 120 minute movies are the crooks here really. Especially with the new 3d bullshit so movies don't cost 10$ anymore but around 15$ half the time. Anyways, I think 10$ is really not much money for what you're getting. If this is something that really keeps you entertained, then it's a really good deal. Cook some food, grab a drink, call some buddies(if you can), hook up your computer to your tv and watch some damn good starcraft. PS: for the dude talking about how he can get 2 channels for that price, then by all means go and do that. While you're doing that, i'll be watching some good starcraft. I just hope that those 2 channels plays shows you like all the time because I atleast have the garuntee that i'll be watching basically only starcraft which is what I signed up for. I actually dont pay for the 2 channels either, because I dont think its worth of it  But thats another story. All im trying to say is 10$ might not be alot and pretty much anyone here can afford it, but people here make it sound like anyone should think its worth their money. While its really a decision one should make for himself.. I for instance, dont think its worth it.
And thats the beauty of it. You don't have to pay. You can enjoy something else for free. There is nothing wrong with that. But some people, and a good amount of people, do want to pay. Thats how the world works. People decide on an individual basis if something is worth it or not. To me, this MLG is worth it. To you its not.
But when people (not saying you btw, just in general) say PPV doesn't belong in esports, or PPV cant work in esports, or $10 is too much, well MLG is kinda proving you wrong right now.
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I'd just like to say that people should stop saying things like "you get 20+ hours of content" when in reality only minority of people spends watching all that content. I might watch all arena but for normal MLGs they have multiple streams and say how they got like 100 hours of content but I can't watch 100 hours in 3 days, and nope, I'm not gonna watch some random games from MLG 2 weeks after it's done because there are new tournaments and better games.
Thing is, starcraft is in bubble right now, everyone is investing alot even though we're not sure if they're actually get their money back. It's fine now when you pay 1 or 2 things per month but if everyone takes this model they will be forced to make some cuts because people won't just increase their spending by a ton. GSL+MLG and I'm done, I ain't paying more to watch starcraft.
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On April 21 2012 17:22 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:18 aicaramba wrote:On April 21 2012 16:50 nakedsurfer wrote:On April 21 2012 16:31 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:26 aicaramba wrote:On April 21 2012 14:51 thezanursic wrote:On April 21 2012 13:11 SnipedSoul wrote:
I can't believe that $10 is such a huge amount of money for people. If you have trouble scraping together $10 for a weekend of SC2 you might want to get off the computer and look for a job. It's funny people spend 10$ on a lot dumber shit. Ohh, I can afford it, easily. But do I think its worth the money?? Well... No. For 10 euro, I can get 2 cheaper sets of ppv channels on tv for an entire month. Or get one more expensive set of channels for an entire month.. 10$ for one weekend is just not worth it to me. And thats just without the fact that yesterdays games were broadcasted from 1 am to 7 am in my timezone. And for the guy who said that he goes to a 120 minute movie for the money of 24 hours of starcraft tournament so it's totally worth it he doesn't take in account how much money a movie production costs in comparison to a tournament. In that regard MLG is totally not worth it. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? Obviously i'm pulling these numbers out of my ass because i'm too lazy to check but i'm sure you get the picture. It gets sooo many more eyes on it. Not only that but it's in the theatre for about a week or two and then sells on dvd. So they make profit on that as well. Whereas MLG gives the VODS to you for free afterwards. So you really can't compare the two. If you were to, then it's a pretty damn safe assumption that 120 minute movies are the crooks here really. Especially with the new 3d bullshit so movies don't cost 10$ anymore but around 15$ half the time. Anyways, I think 10$ is really not much money for what you're getting. If this is something that really keeps you entertained, then it's a really good deal. Cook some food, grab a drink, call some buddies(if you can), hook up your computer to your tv and watch some damn good starcraft. PS: for the dude talking about how he can get 2 channels for that price, then by all means go and do that. While you're doing that, i'll be watching some good starcraft. I just hope that those 2 channels plays shows you like all the time because I atleast have the garuntee that i'll be watching basically only starcraft which is what I signed up for. I actually dont pay for the 2 channels either, because I dont think its worth of it But thats another story. All im trying to say is 10$ might not be alot and pretty much anyone here can afford it, but people here make it sound like anyone should think its worth their money. While its really a decision one should make for himself.. I for instance, dont think its worth it. And thats the beauty of it. You don't have to pay. You can enjoy something else for free. There is nothing wrong with that. But some people, and a good amount of people, do want to pay. Thats how the world works. People decide on an individual basis if something is worth it or not. To me, this MLG is worth it. To you its not. But when people (not saying you btw, just in general) say PPV doesn't belong in esports, or PPV cant work in esports, or $10 is too much, well MLG is kinda proving you wrong right now.
And we should all just leave it at that and enjoy the over-saturated content we're being given in eSports.
Basically to all stop whining if you don't like what they're doing don't watch , don't pay and watch some other free content.
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On April 21 2012 17:22 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:18 aicaramba wrote:On April 21 2012 16:50 nakedsurfer wrote:On April 21 2012 16:31 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:26 aicaramba wrote:On April 21 2012 14:51 thezanursic wrote:On April 21 2012 13:11 SnipedSoul wrote:
I can't believe that $10 is such a huge amount of money for people. If you have trouble scraping together $10 for a weekend of SC2 you might want to get off the computer and look for a job. It's funny people spend 10$ on a lot dumber shit. Ohh, I can afford it, easily. But do I think its worth the money?? Well... No. For 10 euro, I can get 2 cheaper sets of ppv channels on tv for an entire month. Or get one more expensive set of channels for an entire month.. 10$ for one weekend is just not worth it to me. And thats just without the fact that yesterdays games were broadcasted from 1 am to 7 am in my timezone. And for the guy who said that he goes to a 120 minute movie for the money of 24 hours of starcraft tournament so it's totally worth it he doesn't take in account how much money a movie production costs in comparison to a tournament. In that regard MLG is totally not worth it. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? Obviously i'm pulling these numbers out of my ass because i'm too lazy to check but i'm sure you get the picture. It gets sooo many more eyes on it. Not only that but it's in the theatre for about a week or two and then sells on dvd. So they make profit on that as well. Whereas MLG gives the VODS to you for free afterwards. So you really can't compare the two. If you were to, then it's a pretty damn safe assumption that 120 minute movies are the crooks here really. Especially with the new 3d bullshit so movies don't cost 10$ anymore but around 15$ half the time. Anyways, I think 10$ is really not much money for what you're getting. If this is something that really keeps you entertained, then it's a really good deal. Cook some food, grab a drink, call some buddies(if you can), hook up your computer to your tv and watch some damn good starcraft. PS: for the dude talking about how he can get 2 channels for that price, then by all means go and do that. While you're doing that, i'll be watching some good starcraft. I just hope that those 2 channels plays shows you like all the time because I atleast have the garuntee that i'll be watching basically only starcraft which is what I signed up for. I actually dont pay for the 2 channels either, because I dont think its worth of it But thats another story. All im trying to say is 10$ might not be alot and pretty much anyone here can afford it, but people here make it sound like anyone should think its worth their money. While its really a decision one should make for himself.. I for instance, dont think its worth it. And thats the beauty of it. You don't have to pay. You can enjoy something else for free. There is nothing wrong with that. But some people, and a good amount of people, do want to pay. Thats how the world works. People decide on an individual basis if something is worth it or not. To me, this MLG is worth it. To you its not. But when people (not saying you btw, just in general) say PPV doesn't belong in esports, or PPV cant work in esports, or $10 is too much, well MLG is kinda proving you wrong right now.
Im not saying they should ditch PPV and if other people want pay that fine. My comment was directed at the people who are saying "its only 10$, anyone can afford it". Even though its true, it doesnt mean everyone should think its worth it.
I never said anything about PPV being bad or w/e. Just said I think it wasnt worth paying for it.
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I'm curious. Why is TL advertising MLG Arena, which is PPV? You said it was against your policy last time.
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On April 21 2012 17:31 aicaramba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:18 aicaramba wrote:On April 21 2012 16:50 nakedsurfer wrote:On April 21 2012 16:31 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:26 aicaramba wrote:On April 21 2012 14:51 thezanursic wrote:On April 21 2012 13:11 SnipedSoul wrote:
I can't believe that $10 is such a huge amount of money for people. If you have trouble scraping together $10 for a weekend of SC2 you might want to get off the computer and look for a job. It's funny people spend 10$ on a lot dumber shit. Ohh, I can afford it, easily. But do I think its worth the money?? Well... No. For 10 euro, I can get 2 cheaper sets of ppv channels on tv for an entire month. Or get one more expensive set of channels for an entire month.. 10$ for one weekend is just not worth it to me. And thats just without the fact that yesterdays games were broadcasted from 1 am to 7 am in my timezone. And for the guy who said that he goes to a 120 minute movie for the money of 24 hours of starcraft tournament so it's totally worth it he doesn't take in account how much money a movie production costs in comparison to a tournament. In that regard MLG is totally not worth it. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? Obviously i'm pulling these numbers out of my ass because i'm too lazy to check but i'm sure you get the picture. It gets sooo many more eyes on it. Not only that but it's in the theatre for about a week or two and then sells on dvd. So they make profit on that as well. Whereas MLG gives the VODS to you for free afterwards. So you really can't compare the two. If you were to, then it's a pretty damn safe assumption that 120 minute movies are the crooks here really. Especially with the new 3d bullshit so movies don't cost 10$ anymore but around 15$ half the time. Anyways, I think 10$ is really not much money for what you're getting. If this is something that really keeps you entertained, then it's a really good deal. Cook some food, grab a drink, call some buddies(if you can), hook up your computer to your tv and watch some damn good starcraft. PS: for the dude talking about how he can get 2 channels for that price, then by all means go and do that. While you're doing that, i'll be watching some good starcraft. I just hope that those 2 channels plays shows you like all the time because I atleast have the garuntee that i'll be watching basically only starcraft which is what I signed up for. I actually dont pay for the 2 channels either, because I dont think its worth of it But thats another story. All im trying to say is 10$ might not be alot and pretty much anyone here can afford it, but people here make it sound like anyone should think its worth their money. While its really a decision one should make for himself.. I for instance, dont think its worth it. And thats the beauty of it. You don't have to pay. You can enjoy something else for free. There is nothing wrong with that. But some people, and a good amount of people, do want to pay. Thats how the world works. People decide on an individual basis if something is worth it or not. To me, this MLG is worth it. To you its not. But when people (not saying you btw, just in general) say PPV doesn't belong in esports, or PPV cant work in esports, or $10 is too much, well MLG is kinda proving you wrong right now. Im not saying they should ditch PPV and if other people want pay that fine. My comment was directed at the people who are saying "its only 10$, anyone can afford it". Even though its true, it doesnt mean everyone should think its worth it. I never said anything about PPV being bad or w/e. Just said I think it wasnt worth paying for it.
I didnt mean you, which is why i put in the "not saying you btw" part.
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On April 21 2012 17:33 Spidinko wrote:
I'm curious. Why is TL advertising MLG Arena, which is PPV? You said it was against your policy last time.
TL treats PPV events like sponsored threads. In order to be advertised, you have to pay. MLG paid this time.
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On April 21 2012 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:06 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 16:52 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:38 feanor1 wrote:On April 21 2012 15:38 ceaRshaf wrote:I did not pay for this last event. I am over saturated already by sc2. In the weekdays I come from work and happily follow IPL and NASL every day and in the weekends, if I have free time, there are often enough big tournaments with free stream. Even though the top 8 at MLG are really good players I see them play around all the time. Why should I pay MLG to give me the same thing again but for money? And for all those who say that 10$ is nothing the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the context, the market they charge it in is what matters. Dreamhack is today and free. Will definitely follow that. IPL 4 gave us a lot more for the lousy 5$ for premium. And it had a free stream. I just bought to support the event. I did that because of the way they treat their customers. There was a TED Talk where a dude said this interesting thing : "Customers don't spend money for the product, they spend money for the company and its ideals". I feel MLG is not my kind of company and I don't like helping them. On April 21 2012 15:26 jmbthirteen wrote:I'm just gonna leave this here: Sundance DiGiovanni
@MLGSundance
Following
Wow. Based on day one sales an 8 man arena is viable. Thank you to all those who went all in with us. 8 players x 3000$ accommodations (value from Sir Scoots) = 24.000$. Add bonus pool of 10.000$. Add 6000$ for different things. We get a total of 40.000$ costs. That means ~4000 people watched MLG. Explains the small LR thread. Not losing money is good, but it doesn't mean real growth. I wonder how much money did IPL 4 get from 100.000 people seeing ads. I imagine they like to pay the people who work there full time once in a while as well They pay them in the free arenas too, so those costs are not special to the ppv program. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? You don't get it. A 10 ticket for a movie that cost 300 mil $ to produce is not equal with a tournament that costs 50.000$ to produce and charges the same. But of course they are apples and oranges, but someone else was making this comparison that is flawed. a ticket to a movie that cost $300 mil to produce wouldnt be $10 if a ton of people didn't go see it. MLG doesn't have that many people watching so expecting it to be cheaper is silly. It's the reverse way. A product is made only if there is a market for it to sell on. Blockbusters would not be made if not enough people would be willing to pay for them. MLG giving a pricey product on a small market is like Transformers being made for 100k people and people would tell me to buy the 100$ movie ticket to support the industry. gtfo But we are seeing these PPV events work and be sustainable. So... wouldn't that mean they are priced right, like the movies?
We are seeing one organization that is using the ppv system. Lets see all of them do it and charge 10$/weekend.
In other words the MLG ppv system works now because it is feeding off of the free stuff other tournaments offer.
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On April 21 2012 17:51 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:06 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 16:52 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:38 feanor1 wrote:On April 21 2012 15:38 ceaRshaf wrote:I did not pay for this last event. I am over saturated already by sc2. In the weekdays I come from work and happily follow IPL and NASL every day and in the weekends, if I have free time, there are often enough big tournaments with free stream. Even though the top 8 at MLG are really good players I see them play around all the time. Why should I pay MLG to give me the same thing again but for money? And for all those who say that 10$ is nothing the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the context, the market they charge it in is what matters. Dreamhack is today and free. Will definitely follow that. IPL 4 gave us a lot more for the lousy 5$ for premium. And it had a free stream. I just bought to support the event. I did that because of the way they treat their customers. There was a TED Talk where a dude said this interesting thing : "Customers don't spend money for the product, they spend money for the company and its ideals". I feel MLG is not my kind of company and I don't like helping them. 8 players x 3000$ accommodations (value from Sir Scoots) = 24.000$. Add bonus pool of 10.000$. Add 6000$ for different things. We get a total of 40.000$ costs. That means ~4000 people watched MLG. Explains the small LR thread. Not losing money is good, but it doesn't mean real growth. I wonder how much money did IPL 4 get from 100.000 people seeing ads. I imagine they like to pay the people who work there full time once in a while as well They pay them in the free arenas too, so those costs are not special to the ppv program. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? You don't get it. A 10 ticket for a movie that cost 300 mil $ to produce is not equal with a tournament that costs 50.000$ to produce and charges the same. But of course they are apples and oranges, but someone else was making this comparison that is flawed. a ticket to a movie that cost $300 mil to produce wouldnt be $10 if a ton of people didn't go see it. MLG doesn't have that many people watching so expecting it to be cheaper is silly. It's the reverse way. A product is made only if there is a market for it to sell on. Blockbusters would not be made if not enough people would be willing to pay for them. MLG giving a pricey product on a small market is like Transformers being made for 100k people and people would tell me to buy the 100$ movie ticket to support the industry. gtfo But we are seeing these PPV events work and be sustainable. So... wouldn't that mean they are priced right, like the movies? We are seeing one organization that is using the ppv system. Lets see all of them do it and charge 10$/weekend. In other words the MLG ppv system works now because it is feeding off of the free stuff other tournaments offer.
I've already said every event going all PPV wont work. But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine. I expect other tournaments to experiment with it.
But they also need to be sure to provide an excellent product. The players and quality of the Arenas have been fantastic. MLG is a big name. GSL could do it. DH could do it. I'm not really sure who else could truly pull it off.
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On April 21 2012 17:53 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:51 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:06 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 16:52 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:38 feanor1 wrote:On April 21 2012 15:38 ceaRshaf wrote:I did not pay for this last event. I am over saturated already by sc2. In the weekdays I come from work and happily follow IPL and NASL every day and in the weekends, if I have free time, there are often enough big tournaments with free stream. Even though the top 8 at MLG are really good players I see them play around all the time. Why should I pay MLG to give me the same thing again but for money? And for all those who say that 10$ is nothing the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the context, the market they charge it in is what matters. Dreamhack is today and free. Will definitely follow that. IPL 4 gave us a lot more for the lousy 5$ for premium. And it had a free stream. I just bought to support the event. I did that because of the way they treat their customers. There was a TED Talk where a dude said this interesting thing : "Customers don't spend money for the product, they spend money for the company and its ideals". I feel MLG is not my kind of company and I don't like helping them. 8 players x 3000$ accommodations (value from Sir Scoots) = 24.000$. Add bonus pool of 10.000$. Add 6000$ for different things. We get a total of 40.000$ costs. That means ~4000 people watched MLG. Explains the small LR thread. Not losing money is good, but it doesn't mean real growth. I wonder how much money did IPL 4 get from 100.000 people seeing ads. I imagine they like to pay the people who work there full time once in a while as well They pay them in the free arenas too, so those costs are not special to the ppv program. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? You don't get it. A 10 ticket for a movie that cost 300 mil $ to produce is not equal with a tournament that costs 50.000$ to produce and charges the same. But of course they are apples and oranges, but someone else was making this comparison that is flawed. a ticket to a movie that cost $300 mil to produce wouldnt be $10 if a ton of people didn't go see it. MLG doesn't have that many people watching so expecting it to be cheaper is silly. It's the reverse way. A product is made only if there is a market for it to sell on. Blockbusters would not be made if not enough people would be willing to pay for them. MLG giving a pricey product on a small market is like Transformers being made for 100k people and people would tell me to buy the 100$ movie ticket to support the industry. gtfo But we are seeing these PPV events work and be sustainable. So... wouldn't that mean they are priced right, like the movies? We are seeing one organization that is using the ppv system. Lets see all of them do it and charge 10$/weekend. In other words the MLG ppv system works now because it is feeding off of the free stuff other tournaments offer. I've already said every event going all PPV wont work. But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine. I expect other tournaments to experiment with it.
So how can I respect MLG if they are making money with a system that works only if they use it and nobody else in the same time?
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On April 21 2012 17:55 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:53 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:51 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:06 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 16:52 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:38 feanor1 wrote:On April 21 2012 15:38 ceaRshaf wrote:I did not pay for this last event. I am over saturated already by sc2. In the weekdays I come from work and happily follow IPL and NASL every day and in the weekends, if I have free time, there are often enough big tournaments with free stream. Even though the top 8 at MLG are really good players I see them play around all the time. Why should I pay MLG to give me the same thing again but for money? And for all those who say that 10$ is nothing the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the context, the market they charge it in is what matters. Dreamhack is today and free. Will definitely follow that. IPL 4 gave us a lot more for the lousy 5$ for premium. And it had a free stream. I just bought to support the event. I did that because of the way they treat their customers. There was a TED Talk where a dude said this interesting thing : "Customers don't spend money for the product, they spend money for the company and its ideals". I feel MLG is not my kind of company and I don't like helping them. 8 players x 3000$ accommodations (value from Sir Scoots) = 24.000$. Add bonus pool of 10.000$. Add 6000$ for different things. We get a total of 40.000$ costs. That means ~4000 people watched MLG. Explains the small LR thread. Not losing money is good, but it doesn't mean real growth. I wonder how much money did IPL 4 get from 100.000 people seeing ads. I imagine they like to pay the people who work there full time once in a while as well They pay them in the free arenas too, so those costs are not special to the ppv program. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? You don't get it. A 10 ticket for a movie that cost 300 mil $ to produce is not equal with a tournament that costs 50.000$ to produce and charges the same. But of course they are apples and oranges, but someone else was making this comparison that is flawed. a ticket to a movie that cost $300 mil to produce wouldnt be $10 if a ton of people didn't go see it. MLG doesn't have that many people watching so expecting it to be cheaper is silly. It's the reverse way. A product is made only if there is a market for it to sell on. Blockbusters would not be made if not enough people would be willing to pay for them. MLG giving a pricey product on a small market is like Transformers being made for 100k people and people would tell me to buy the 100$ movie ticket to support the industry. gtfo But we are seeing these PPV events work and be sustainable. So... wouldn't that mean they are priced right, like the movies? We are seeing one organization that is using the ppv system. Lets see all of them do it and charge 10$/weekend. In other words the MLG ppv system works now because it is feeding off of the free stuff other tournaments offer. I've already said every event going all PPV wont work. But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine. I expect other tournaments to experiment with it. So how can I respect MLG if they are making money with a system that works only if they use it and nobody else in the same time?
Where did i say only MLG can use it? I said every tournament going all PPV (including MLG going all PPV) wouldnt work. Seriously read my post. Like I said, "But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine."
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On April 21 2012 17:57 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:53 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:51 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:06 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 16:52 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:38 feanor1 wrote:On April 21 2012 15:38 ceaRshaf wrote:
I did not pay for this last event. I am over saturated already by sc2. In the weekdays I come from work and happily follow IPL and NASL every day and in the weekends, if I have free time, there are often enough big tournaments with free stream.
Even though the top 8 at MLG are really good players I see them play around all the time. Why should I pay MLG to give me the same thing again but for money? And for all those who say that 10$ is nothing the amount of money is irrelevant, it's the context, the market they charge it in is what matters.
Dreamhack is today and free. Will definitely follow that.
IPL 4 gave us a lot more for the lousy 5$ for premium. And it had a free stream. I just bought to support the event. I did that because of the way they treat their customers.
There was a TED Talk where a dude said this interesting thing : "Customers don't spend money for the product, they spend money for the company and its ideals". I feel MLG is not my kind of company and I don't like helping them.
[quote]
8 players x 3000$ accommodations (value from Sir Scoots) = 24.000$. Add bonus pool of 10.000$. Add 6000$ for different things. We get a total of 40.000$ costs.
That means ~4000 people watched MLG. Explains the small LR thread.
Not losing money is good, but it doesn't mean real growth. I wonder how much money did IPL 4 get from 100.000 people seeing ads. I imagine they like to pay the people who work there full time once in a while as well They pay them in the free arenas too, so those costs are not special to the ppv program. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? You don't get it. A 10 ticket for a movie that cost 300 mil $ to produce is not equal with a tournament that costs 50.000$ to produce and charges the same. But of course they are apples and oranges, but someone else was making this comparison that is flawed. a ticket to a movie that cost $300 mil to produce wouldnt be $10 if a ton of people didn't go see it. MLG doesn't have that many people watching so expecting it to be cheaper is silly. It's the reverse way. A product is made only if there is a market for it to sell on. Blockbusters would not be made if not enough people would be willing to pay for them. MLG giving a pricey product on a small market is like Transformers being made for 100k people and people would tell me to buy the 100$ movie ticket to support the industry. gtfo But we are seeing these PPV events work and be sustainable. So... wouldn't that mean they are priced right, like the movies? We are seeing one organization that is using the ppv system. Lets see all of them do it and charge 10$/weekend. In other words the MLG ppv system works now because it is feeding off of the free stuff other tournaments offer. I've already said every event going all PPV wont work. But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine. I expect other tournaments to experiment with it. So how can I respect MLG if they are making money with a system that works only if they use it and nobody else in the same time? Where did i say only MLG can use it? I said every tournament going all PPV (including MLG going all PPV) wouldnt work. Seriously read my post. Like I said, "But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine."
You can't even prove that there is room for every tournament to squeeze one ppv tournament at least once at 3 months. People don't like to spend 50$ per month to watch starcraft. So at this moment only MLG can use it because they were here first.
If we would have 2 PPV tournaments per month their value would be lowered to under 5$.
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On April 21 2012 18:01 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:57 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:53 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:51 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 17:06 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 17:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 21 2012 16:52 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 21 2012 16:38 feanor1 wrote:
[quote]
I imagine they like to pay the people who work there full time once in a while as well They pay them in the free arenas too, so those costs are not special to the ppv program. Lol. In that regard, MLG is worth it. Movies that play in cinemas make billions of dollars because millions of people go a see those movies. MLG gets like what 50,000 people watching at these arenas at best? You don't get it. A 10 ticket for a movie that cost 300 mil $ to produce is not equal with a tournament that costs 50.000$ to produce and charges the same. But of course they are apples and oranges, but someone else was making this comparison that is flawed. a ticket to a movie that cost $300 mil to produce wouldnt be $10 if a ton of people didn't go see it. MLG doesn't have that many people watching so expecting it to be cheaper is silly. It's the reverse way. A product is made only if there is a market for it to sell on. Blockbusters would not be made if not enough people would be willing to pay for them. MLG giving a pricey product on a small market is like Transformers being made for 100k people and people would tell me to buy the 100$ movie ticket to support the industry. gtfo But we are seeing these PPV events work and be sustainable. So... wouldn't that mean they are priced right, like the movies? We are seeing one organization that is using the ppv system. Lets see all of them do it and charge 10$/weekend. In other words the MLG ppv system works now because it is feeding off of the free stuff other tournaments offer. I've already said every event going all PPV wont work. But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine. I expect other tournaments to experiment with it. So how can I respect MLG if they are making money with a system that works only if they use it and nobody else in the same time? Where did i say only MLG can use it? I said every tournament going all PPV (including MLG going all PPV) wouldnt work. Seriously read my post. Like I said, "But if other tournaments had some PPV events throughout the year, I think it would be absolutely fine." You can't even prove that there is room for every tournament to squeeze one ppv tournament at least once at 3 months. People don't like to spend 50$ per month to watch starcraft. So at this moment only MLG can use it because they were here first. If we would have 2 PPV tournaments per month their value would be lowered to under 5$.
You are making statements with no proof too. The only thing I have said that hasn't been proven is because it hasn't been done yet. Some people don't like to spend $50 a month to watch starcraft. Yet I know there are people who subscribe to GSL, MLG and IPL.
Its $90 a year to watch all MLG sc2 events (championships and arenas). Thats not much at all. Yeah, the majority of people don't pay a dime to watch their sc2 content. Thats cool. But a lot of people want the HD and ad free content and pay for it. Thats who these arenas are aimed at.
You can't prove that if DreamHack were to run a PPV two months from now, comprable to the MLG Arena's, that people wouldn't pay for it. Signs actually point to them paying for it because what MLG has done. And they have done it while other major events go on!
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All I can say is that I will NEVER pay for an MLG event 
With the amount of free SC2 out there, there is no way I'd ever pay for anything below GSL level of production.
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I won't pay for an MLG event.
Did you notice the cost went from $20 to $10 from the winter arena? People won't pay $20, at least not enough that they didn't lower the price to $10. And I think they still make a lot of money from the ads all weekend when it's free.
So I'll give them my viewership, and put up with some ads, for free.
It seems MLG has already moved on this though, trying to get dreamhack from competing directly with them. Probably to limit free content around when they want to charge, and they'll buy them off by selling them on a weekend a year or something. Yeah I'll support the free content.
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On April 22 2012 18:58 Dealer009 wrote:
I won't pay for an MLG event.
Did you notice the cost went from $20 to $10 from the winter arena? People won't pay $20, at least not enough that they didn't lower the price to $10. And I think they still make a lot of money from the ads all weekend when it's free.
Spring Arena 2 costs 20$.........
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"its only 10$, anyone can afford it"
This is true but it also fails to account for the things i can purchase for 10$, i can buy full games on Steam, or bargain bin console games for my 360/PS3/Wii. I can buy any DVD/Blu Ray movie of my liking.
Things i actually will own, some of it is physical and some of it (Steam, Xbox Live, PSN etc) is virtual.
I simply do not think esports, specifically SC2 as the game and the talent pool is at the moment is worth the price of admission i barely watch FREE events that include the same players with the same casters. I cant remember the last time i watched GSL, its a fine programme and i love Tastosis but it just dosent draw me in.
I guess new talent, longer and more dramatic games, how many TvZs have we seen where Zerg is droning up and Terran is building a attack and the question is "can the Zerg player hold this off?", or a PvT where its essentially "can the Protoss land good enough Forcefields to win?". I feel like i am watching the same games.
Maybe when HotS comes out and the Kespa talent is there, we will get games that feel less stale and predictable. Fresh matchups, can Bisu beat MC? How does Flash stack up to MKP? I think those kind of fresh matches is something i would want to pay for. But even those would have a very short window is anticipation and excitement before that is worn out too.
Think we need better storylines, fewer but bigger tournaments that feel important.
TLDR: Too much, we are like fat kids being overfed. We are at a free buffet and there is a table telling me to pay for what i am already been eating for a whole year.
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I am one of people who "hurt" eSports and I also enjoy watching SC2 streams more then anything on TV/internet... but I just refuse to pay anything to MLG, today you pay 10$ which is "nothing" and tomorrow I won't be able to watch any tournament nor player streams without subscribing. I just D O N O T have that money to spend annually on watching SC2, sorry.
P.S.
I aboslutely hate everything together with my life because I wasn't able to watch MLG Spring Arena but life sucks, on brighter side there was awesome Dreamhack for free in same time.
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On April 22 2012 19:19 Tyree wrote:This is true but it also fails to account for the things i can purchase for 10$, i can buy full games on Steam, or bargain bin console games for my 360/PS3/Wii. I can buy any DVD/Blu Ray movie of my liking. Things i actually will own, some of it is physical and some of it (Steam, Xbox Live, PSN etc) is virtual. I simply do not think esports, specifically SC2 as the game and the talent pool is at the moment is worth the price of admission i barely watch FREE events that include the same players with the same casters. I cant remember the last time i watched GSL, its a fine programme and i love Tastosis but it just dosent draw me in. I guess new talent, longer and more dramatic games, how many TvZs have we seen where Zerg is droning up and Terran is building a attack and the question is "can the Zerg player hold this off?", or a PvT where its essentially "can the Protoss land good enough Forcefields to win?". I feel like i am watching the same games. Maybe when HotS comes out and the Kespa talent is there, we will get games that feel less stale and predictable. Fresh matchups, can Bisu beat MC? How does Flash stack up to MKP? I think those kind of fresh matches is something i would want to pay for. But even those would have a very short window is anticipation and excitement before that is worn out too. Think we need better storylines, fewer but bigger tournaments that feel important. TLDR: Too much, we are like fat kids being overfed. We are at a free buffet and there is a table telling me to pay for what i am already been eating for a whole year.
How is real sports any diff in terms of same stuff over and over with the same teams? Curious...
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Maybe top players should get some ideas from this.
The could make quiet a bit of monney from this and they deserve and need it alot more then mlg.
There are some players where you can subscribe to their stream for a monthly fee though you can still also watch it for free.
Why not pool together with say 10 popular players and make a ppv channel/stream.
Get a regular scedule so that you can get 24/7 stream.
Just hate to see outsiders make monney from this while manny players barely make above the minimum wage.
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EPT
