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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On April 23 2012 08:16 Rassy wrote:
Maybe top players should get some ideas from this.
The could make quiet a bit of monney from this and they deserve and need it alot more then mlg.
There are some players where you can subscribe to their stream for a monthly fee though you can still also watch it for free.
Why not pool together with say 10 popular players and make a ppv channel/stream.
Get a regular scedule so that you can get 24/7 stream.
Just hate to see outsiders make monney from this while manny players barely make above the minimum wage.
Wish I could travel the world, go to Vegas Cosmopolitan etc off minimum wage lol... They don't have it that bad 
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I think Dreamhacks free 720 stream and amazing production puts a huge dent in MLGs way of using PPV for something with worse production.
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I dont know, the absolute top 10 players can make a decent living i think but for the people just below that its not big
you have to consider they give up verry valuable years for this, years in wich they could also study or start a career and they should get some compensation.
When they started about this ppv thing, there was talk about it beeing maybe 4 events a year ppv.
Now however when i look at the announcement post of the colaboration between mlg and dreamhack there seems to be manny more events planned.
We had springbreak 1 but halfway may there already is mlg springbreak 2, followed by a huge tournament in june
That seems to be 1 ppv event per month during the summer from mlg.
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Hope Sundance sees the error of his ways and reverts back to a system that works, both Arena's have proven to be pretty epic failures, but I fear we'll have to bear through another 2 or so before he stops them and blames the community again for not being mature enough like in his award winning performance on LO3 where he played the cranky baby that kept saying he got it.
And although there might not have been any twitch streams restreaming this mess, streaming sites from eastern europe certainly don't seem to care, must feel bad to let your caring customers pay while a freeloader with a disdain for the company like me can just watch it no problem by simply checking /vg/.
Bad system, doomed to fail, stop it before you drag more then just these arena events with you.
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On April 24 2012 00:22 Scootaloo wrote:
Hope Sundance sees the error of his ways and reverts back to a system that works, both Arena's have proven to be pretty epic failures, but I fear we'll have to bear through another 2 or so before he stops them and blames the community again for not being mature enough like in his award winning performance on LO3 where he played the cranky baby that kept saying he got it.
And although there might not have been any twitch streams restreaming this mess, streaming sites from eastern europe certainly don't seem to care, must feel bad to let your caring customers pay while a freeloader with a disdain for the company like me can just watch it no problem by simply checking /vg/.
Bad system, doomed to fail, stop it before you drag more then just these arena events with you.
Can you please direct us to your source where it says these arena's were epic failures? Or are you just pulling that from your ass?
Of course there will be restreams, you can try and stop them, but you can't. I'd rather be in control of my stream where I can choose which views I want. I watched most of the tournament from player POV's and it was a blast.
The PPV arena's will be around for as long as SC2 is an e-sport, they are a great tournament with a lot of high quality games. No ad's, no major downtime, and it has a more exclusive feel to it.
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These Arena's get very little viewers, this one is even worse then the last, as the last one had like 10k viewers and they could'nt even top that with 10$ tickets.
And from watching it myself, I found it extremely bland and boring, good commentators but no excitement, none from the casters, none from the players and the audience, well, lol.
And if you get an exclusive feel from watching a tournament with standard GSL competitors all suffering from jetlag where there is never a crowd or any real hype, good luck to you, but most of us need more then just watching a player stream and analyzing to believe it's a cut above the rest, as it was it was just a small tournament with good casters but a shitty venue and player participation.
To think that this all started as Sundances stupid idea to recreate HSC, yet on the 2nd event still massively fails to do so.
And when you talk about "Exclusiveness" do you mean you enjoy that only about 10k people will see it because people don't think it's worth their money? Because I personally had no problems watching restreams, which is more then what I read about all the people who did pay but couldn't watch anyway due to MLG's player being a mess.
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On April 24 2012 01:12 Scootaloo wrote:
These Arena's get very little viewers, this one is even worse then the last, as the last one had like 10k viewers and they could'nt even top that with 10$ tickets.
source?
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According to many people on here the viewer number never got beyond 10k, you'll have to wait for the official
stastics but if you ever looked at it yourself you should know it's pretty accurate.
And that's while half a million people are watching Dreamhack.
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The VODs become free after one week right?
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Only die hard fans care for vods one week later, 99% of the fans has forgotten about the tournament by then and watching the vods is not interesting at all .
Part of the fun of watching live tournaments is that you watch them with others, there is a live report thread and there are chats where you can participate.
The thread in wich mlg announced the vods of the winter arena had only 44 responses and is already on page 3 or 4 of the forums.
sc stream of dreamhack had like 60k vieuwers btw, not 500k?:s
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On April 24 2012 02:32 Scootaloo wrote:
According to many people on here the viewer number never got beyond 10k, you'll have to wait for the official
stastics but if you ever looked at it yourself you should know it's pretty accurate.
And that's while half a million people are watching Dreamhack.
Was that 10k per stream and did that include the POV stream? I think the counts are going to be off, since there were three streams per game and we can't tell if people were watchings all three at once. Also, Dreamhack also had LoL and other things going on. Unless half a million people were watching SC2 and SC2 only, which would be impressive.
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The goal of the Arenas it to provide amazing games, not to bring a new audience.
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On April 24 2012 00:22 Scootaloo wrote:
Hope Sundance sees the error of his ways and reverts back to a system that works, both Arena's have proven to be pretty epic failures, but I fear we'll have to bear through another 2 or so before he stops them and blames the community again for not being mature enough like in his award winning performance on LO3 where he played the cranky baby that kept saying he got it.
And although there might not have been any twitch streams restreaming this mess, streaming sites from eastern europe certainly don't seem to care, must feel bad to let your caring customers pay while a freeloader with a disdain for the company like me can just watch it no problem by simply checking /vg/.
Bad system, doomed to fail, stop it before you drag more then just these arena events with you.
Epic failure? the first Arena was profitable which led to MLG acquiring 11 million more in sponsorship dollars. Esports needs to become self sustaining, and PPV is the only way at this moment to get there.
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On April 24 2012 01:12 Scootaloo wrote:
And when you talk about "Exclusiveness" do you mean you enjoy that only about 10k people will see it because people don't think it's worth their money? Because I personally had no problems watching restreams, which is more then what I read about all the people who did pay but couldn't watch anyway due to MLG's player being a mess.
I have a gold membership so I will be watching the various championships and I bought the spring pass so I'll watch some of spring arena 2, but unless MLG does something to drastically improve their service between now and when my gold membership is up for renewal the spring pass will be the last money they are getting from me.
Every single tournament I've had problems with mlg's player and each time its something different. This past weekend they e-mailed, or were suppose to e-mail codes for you to enter on twitch.tv to view the arena. This is something that was not required before and I imagine they did it this time because people were able to circumvent the paywall, so paying customers should have to pay the price. After figuring out I was supposed to receive an e-mail I checked and much to my dismay, never received one. I figured all this out right before I had to leave for an event, luckily when I got back a couple hours later someone at the mlg forums asked me to send them a pm of my confirmation number and he did pm me back with my code within just a couple of minutes.
So I finally get the stream working, thinking this will be the end of my problems for this event, like I've said I've had a different problem every event; but I was wrong. The next day the stream stops working when the paywall goes up again. After heading back to the forums I find out I have to delete all my cookies so after just a few minutes I'm able to get it working again but it is such a huge annoyance for the stream to stop working in the middle of the event. If I could see if there were problems with the stream before the event started and I could get them resolved before the event started it wouldn't bother me so much, but only being able to discover the problems in the middle of the event really peeves me.
And all while this was happening dreamhack was going on. Free 720, no problems with the stream (mlg's stream would stutter at times all while the dreamhack stream was running just fine), and better production value. With so many tournaments going on I don't see any reason to continue giving MLG money for an inferior product.
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Germany25658 Posts
I like the format and the price, nice going mlg 
Eagerly awaiting the next arena.
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inferior because youre unlucky
the stream quality, stream features (fp pov) and quality of players @ mlg were all better than dreamhack.
i had no problems with the stream.
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Everyone keeps comparing MLG's to dreamhack's "free 720p". Honestly I don't know how you can make that comparison. I watched both tournaments this weekend and MLG's 720p was much much better than Dreamhacks, which was quite blurry. I am of course very happy to get free 720p but to say that it's the equivalent of what MLG gives you (especially given the 1080p option MLG had, looked exactly like the game when I run it on all ultra) is a silly thing.
Also comparing this arena to dreamhack is also silly. Dreamhack is part of a giant LAN and sold a bunch of tickets to seating. This is why the MLG championships are also free, they sell tickets for seating. Not to mention that Dreamhack is still operating at a loss and lives due to sponsorships / promoting the LAN etc whereas the arenas are meant to be self sustaining.
Lets say they only had 10k people buy the spring arena. That is $100,000 just for this one event. Plus some of the sponsorships they still have etc etc. That is still pretty good, and likely greater than the operating costs. Still not break even overall if you include capital costs / salaries but overall the arena's seem to be successful.
If you don't like them, don't watch them! The complaints of "it's just jetlagged GSL players" seem silly. Why is that a bad thing (besides jetlag ofc, which I don't see as big of a factor for every player). I can't watch the GSL when its live very often at all, much less in 1080p quality with multiple streams, this many games in a weekend or so many casters I like. So of course I love this since it lets me see high quality games. The games for Spring Arena were absolutely better than Dreamhack games, where honestly the quality of players was much lower. Any of the spring arena players could have placed Ro8 easily at dreamhack, if not taken the whole event (maybe not HuK, who got last anyway).
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People will say anything to get out of spending money. This thread is kind of a joke. If you don't like what MLG is doing, just don't watch.
It's apparent that MLG is making enough money to support their business model, or they wouldn't be doing it. They already cut the price point significantly to make it more appealing for people. Coming here and whining probably isn't going to get anything else done. Like the dude above me said, 10k people at 10 bucks a pop is a lot of money. Not sure what their expenses are for running the events, but I'd imagine they'd have to at least broke even.
People need to understand that e-sports is a BUSINESS. Everything was free before because it had to be. There was not an established market for it. Now it's growing and there's an opportunity for profit and further growth. Further growth cannot be achieved by just giving shit away to everyone. Players will need salaries, casters need payment for services etc. Money has to come from somewhere.
And honestly, I say this every time there's a whine fest about the price of content and I'll say it again. If you can't afford a measly 10 USD for a weekend of content, then you need to stop whining on the internet and go get a job. If you're not of the age to be employed, fair enough, but the rest of you? There is no excuse.
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On April 24 2012 03:04 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 00:22 Scootaloo wrote:
Hope Sundance sees the error of his ways and reverts back to a system that works, both Arena's have proven to be pretty epic failures, but I fear we'll have to bear through another 2 or so before he stops them and blames the community again for not being mature enough like in his award winning performance on LO3 where he played the cranky baby that kept saying he got it.
And although there might not have been any twitch streams restreaming this mess, streaming sites from eastern europe certainly don't seem to care, must feel bad to let your caring customers pay while a freeloader with a disdain for the company like me can just watch it no problem by simply checking /vg/.
Bad system, doomed to fail, stop it before you drag more then just these arena events with you. Epic failure? the first Arena was profitable which led to MLG acquiring 11 million more in sponsorship dollars. Esports needs to become self sustaining, and PPV is the only way at this moment to get there.
They never said it was profitable they only said they got more viewers than they expected without ever releasing the numbers. And they never acquired 11 million in sponshorship dollars they received 11 million in venture capital. Besides that the whole e-sports is a business and needs to go ppv to be sustainable is just a big joke. There are a lot of companies that create free products and still grow bigtime and run big profits.
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people sure love pulling numbers out of thin air to attempt to bolster their argument
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EPT
