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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
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Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 16 2012 11:39 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 11:35 WarrickHunt wrote:On February 16 2012 11:26 SCJethro wrote:On February 16 2012 11:24 WarrickHunt wrote:On February 16 2012 11:20 SCJethro wrote:On February 16 2012 11:19 WarrickHunt wrote:
Why does he keep avoiding the gold membership question? I don't think "We are shit, I know" should constitute an answer as to why they have missold people, the reason "Not many people bought Gold" doesn't mean you should shit on the people who did, this is a PR nightmare, I certainly won't be giving this guy my money for his shirking of questions around this How is he avoiding it. He said he can give the discount, no more, and that the miscommunication was a huge mistake. There is nothing else to it. How is there nothing else to do? If there are so few people who bought gold as he says, then it cant be that detromental to give them the arena, misselling people have drove multi-million businesses into the ground in the past, which is why companies act so evasivly when they do so, and often give shit loads to loyal customers to show they didnt intentionally do this He said very few bought it recently, that is, after the 2011 season ended. There are a lot of people that had it from previously, so he cant afford to give it away. Nope, he said 1/10th of the goal bought it, unless they were being completely unrealistic in their aims it can't be that many, and even the money they would lose from offering it to gold members for free, maybe they make that back from the same people coming back next year buying gold memberships, instead of thinking, well i could buy a gold membership, but ill probably get shafted again if I do, its about building brand loyalty and trying to maintain your loyal customer base, and when people have shown they will buy into the business doing everything in your power not to fuck them over I think there goal was something like 100k people to buy gold.
Either way, they should have projected it, but now Gold members are baring the brunt of their short comings, which is just not good PR at all
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To me, MLG is worth 20 dollars compared to what I pay for less entertaining shit in this world. MLG has my support still. Although I havn't been a gold member before, so I can understand their anger somewhat.
In my eyes, sundance is one of the good guys.
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On February 16 2012 11:41 WarrickHunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 11:39 Adreme wrote:On February 16 2012 11:35 WarrickHunt wrote:On February 16 2012 11:26 SCJethro wrote:On February 16 2012 11:24 WarrickHunt wrote:On February 16 2012 11:20 SCJethro wrote:On February 16 2012 11:19 WarrickHunt wrote:
Why does he keep avoiding the gold membership question? I don't think "We are shit, I know" should constitute an answer as to why they have missold people, the reason "Not many people bought Gold" doesn't mean you should shit on the people who did, this is a PR nightmare, I certainly won't be giving this guy my money for his shirking of questions around this How is he avoiding it. He said he can give the discount, no more, and that the miscommunication was a huge mistake. There is nothing else to it. How is there nothing else to do? If there are so few people who bought gold as he says, then it cant be that detromental to give them the arena, misselling people have drove multi-million businesses into the ground in the past, which is why companies act so evasivly when they do so, and often give shit loads to loyal customers to show they didnt intentionally do this He said very few bought it recently, that is, after the 2011 season ended. There are a lot of people that had it from previously, so he cant afford to give it away. Nope, he said 1/10th of the goal bought it, unless they were being completely unrealistic in their aims it can't be that many, and even the money they would lose from offering it to gold members for free, maybe they make that back from the same people coming back next year buying gold memberships, instead of thinking, well i could buy a gold membership, but ill probably get shafted again if I do, its about building brand loyalty and trying to maintain your loyal customer base, and when people have shown they will buy into the business doing everything in your power not to fuck them over I think there goal was something like 100k people to buy gold. Either way, they should have projected it, but now Gold members are baring the brunt of their short comings, which is just not good PR at all
The options seems like either screw gold members and have the tournament or not screw gold members and dont have the tournament. I personally would rather have the tournament and have to pay for something else than not even have the option to buy it at all.
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8748 Posts
On February 16 2012 11:15 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 11:11 Liquid`NonY wrote:On February 16 2012 10:48 Rulker wrote:On February 16 2012 10:30 Mora wrote:
It's a good thing that there are plenty of us out there who realize that $20 is basically no money at all and will more than make up for all the cheap bastards who don't want to pay for anything.
Seriously. $20? You guys are upset about $20?
Even when I worked for minimum wage I wouldn't mind paying $20.
Fuck, I've paid $30 to go to the local pro soccer team (for a single game). I've paid $300 season's tickets to that same soccer team. I've paid $100 to go to a concert. Going to see a movie at the theatre costs $15.
At times I identify with being a nerd, and other times I'm disgusted at how pathetic and cheap that group is. glad you have been able to go through life either riding on your parents money or gone through college debt free <3 You don't have to express your idea in such an asshole way. Even if a disadvantaged person can't pay yet, they could be posting "I love what MLG has given me so far for free and I want to do my part, but I can't yet. Wish you guys all the luck" and not go on posting "what the fuck is this $20 blah blah blah" etc all the bitching that people have done. But the point is the vast vast majority of SC2 fans can find $20 to pay if they had a good understanding of value. You're criticizing him for being rude but then support the guy who's basically condescending to everyone?
Mora is an awesome dude. He's a TL.net veteran and has proven himself to be a great guy a million times over. So I read his post a bit differently than a stranger would. But when I go back and read it objectively, yeah he didn't write it in the nicest way. TL.net has changed a lot over the years... it used to be that people posted as if they were talking to friends. Which meant it was okay to be blunt and insulting as long as you were making a point. I wouldn't ever want a friend to make comments to me like rulker made but I find it refreshing when a friend drops an opinion the way Mora just did.
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On February 16 2012 11:44 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 11:41 WarrickHunt wrote:On February 16 2012 11:39 Adreme wrote:On February 16 2012 11:35 WarrickHunt wrote:On February 16 2012 11:26 SCJethro wrote:On February 16 2012 11:24 WarrickHunt wrote:On February 16 2012 11:20 SCJethro wrote:On February 16 2012 11:19 WarrickHunt wrote:
Why does he keep avoiding the gold membership question? I don't think "We are shit, I know" should constitute an answer as to why they have missold people, the reason "Not many people bought Gold" doesn't mean you should shit on the people who did, this is a PR nightmare, I certainly won't be giving this guy my money for his shirking of questions around this How is he avoiding it. He said he can give the discount, no more, and that the miscommunication was a huge mistake. There is nothing else to it. How is there nothing else to do? If there are so few people who bought gold as he says, then it cant be that detromental to give them the arena, misselling people have drove multi-million businesses into the ground in the past, which is why companies act so evasivly when they do so, and often give shit loads to loyal customers to show they didnt intentionally do this He said very few bought it recently, that is, after the 2011 season ended. There are a lot of people that had it from previously, so he cant afford to give it away. Nope, he said 1/10th of the goal bought it, unless they were being completely unrealistic in their aims it can't be that many, and even the money they would lose from offering it to gold members for free, maybe they make that back from the same people coming back next year buying gold memberships, instead of thinking, well i could buy a gold membership, but ill probably get shafted again if I do, its about building brand loyalty and trying to maintain your loyal customer base, and when people have shown they will buy into the business doing everything in your power not to fuck them over I think there goal was something like 100k people to buy gold. Either way, they should have projected it, but now Gold members are baring the brunt of their short comings, which is just not good PR at all The options seems like either screw gold members and have the tournament or not screw gold members and dont have the tournament. I personally would rather have the tournament and have to pay for something else than not even have the option to buy it at all.
Yeh I understand to a certain extent, but punishing customers for the mistakes of the company is bad business and I dont understand how the profit margin can be sooo thin, despite this never happening last year, that like 6-10k or however many have gold passes, of which I can only imagine a small portion will pay for the arena, will be the difference between an event taking place and not
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On February 16 2012 11:11 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:48 Rulker wrote:On February 16 2012 10:30 Mora wrote:
It's a good thing that there are plenty of us out there who realize that $20 is basically no money at all and will more than make up for all the cheap bastards who don't want to pay for anything.
Seriously. $20? You guys are upset about $20?
Even when I worked for minimum wage I wouldn't mind paying $20.
Fuck, I've paid $30 to go to the local pro soccer team (for a single game). I've paid $300 season's tickets to that same soccer team. I've paid $100 to go to a concert. Going to see a movie at the theatre costs $15.
At times I identify with being a nerd, and other times I'm disgusted at how pathetic and cheap that group is. glad you have been able to go through life either riding on your parents money or gone through college debt free <3 You don't have to express your idea in such an asshole way. Even if a disadvantaged person can't pay yet, they could be posting "I love what MLG has given me so far for free and I want to do my part, but I can't yet. Wish you guys all the luck" and not go on posting "what the fuck is this $20 blah blah blah" etc all the bitching that people have done. But the point is the vast vast majority of SC2 fans can find $20 to pay if they had a good understanding of value.
Oh, and what the other guy said, he did so in a non asshole way?
I'm one of the people you talk about in your last sentence. I'm in a financial position where in fact $20 USD isn't all that much and I would certainly not miss a meal if I paid. That's the reason I shipped 20€ (which is more than $20 USD) to TotalBiscuit a few hours ago, and posted the PayPal screenshot in this thread.
I did this for several reasons.
1. I have a good understanding of value.
Total Biscuit is just about the only caster out there who manages to navigate through 10 sentences without dropping 11 "Uhs".
2. He cares. (Not only White-Ra does)
He's either the best actor out there, or he actually cares about the growth of this out of love/passion that goes beyond self interest, as a bigger scene obviously is good for him and his wife and Kid financially. (pun incoming) But guess what, he gets it (my 20 bucks) and that prick who's spewing bullshit right now on Wheat's stream doesn't.
3. Shut people up.
I'm not a poor student. I can spare $20. I'm not going to give them to organizations who I think are bad for what we all want. People accuse me of "hurting ESPORTS". Well, fuck them. I put more money into ESPORTS tonight than the self righteous fuck that bought an MLG pass and then went on accusing me of hurting it. I'm guilty as well of getting these points across "in an asshole way", but that's because...
4. I care!
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Free 480p version is the way to go IMO. Growth is the way to go and free is the best way. Venture Capitol doesn't sound like a good excuse for a $20 ticket. I'd watch for a few hours here and there if there was a free stream but I got loans and stuff so no payed tourneys for me. The other day I stopped to pick up a dirty penny on the sidewalk.
I hope everybody enjoys the tourney for yall that will be paying for it!
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8748 Posts
On February 16 2012 12:08 SACtheXchng wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 11:11 Liquid`NonY wrote:On February 16 2012 10:48 Rulker wrote:On February 16 2012 10:30 Mora wrote:
It's a good thing that there are plenty of us out there who realize that $20 is basically no money at all and will more than make up for all the cheap bastards who don't want to pay for anything.
Seriously. $20? You guys are upset about $20?
Even when I worked for minimum wage I wouldn't mind paying $20.
Fuck, I've paid $30 to go to the local pro soccer team (for a single game). I've paid $300 season's tickets to that same soccer team. I've paid $100 to go to a concert. Going to see a movie at the theatre costs $15.
At times I identify with being a nerd, and other times I'm disgusted at how pathetic and cheap that group is. glad you have been able to go through life either riding on your parents money or gone through college debt free <3 You don't have to express your idea in such an asshole way. Even if a disadvantaged person can't pay yet, they could be posting "I love what MLG has given me so far for free and I want to do my part, but I can't yet. Wish you guys all the luck" and not go on posting "what the fuck is this $20 blah blah blah" etc all the bitching that people have done. But the point is the vast vast majority of SC2 fans can find $20 to pay if they had a good understanding of value. Oh, and what the other guy said, he did so in a non asshole way? I'm one of the people you talk about in your last sentence. I'm in a financial position where in fact $20 USD isn't all that much and I would certainly not miss a meal if I paid. That's the reason I shipped 20€ (which is more than $20 USD) to TotalBiscuit a few hours ago, and posted the PayPal screenshot in this thread. I did this for several reasons. 1. I have a good understanding of value. Total Biscuit is just about the only caster out there who manages to navigate through 10 sentences without dropping 11 "Uhs". 2. He cares. (Not only White-Ra does) He's either the best actor out there, or he actually cares about the growth of this out of love/passion that goes beyond self interest, as a bigger scene obviously is good for him and his wife and Kid financially. (pun incoming) But guess what, he gets it (my 20 bucks) and that prick who's spewing bullshit right now on Wheat's stream doesn't. 3. Shut people up. I'm not a poor student. I can spare $20. I'm not going to give them to organizations who I think are bad for what we all want. People accuse me of "hurting ESPORTS". Well, fuck them. I put more money into ESPORTS tonight than the self righteous fuck that bought an MLG pass and then went on accusing me of hurting it. I'm guilty as well of getting these points across "in an asshole way", but that's because... 4. I care!
I dunno what you have against Sundance. If you're judging him based purely on that episode of Lo3, that's your own shortcoming.
Everything else you've said is just agreeing with me or irrelevant? I don't know why you've written it. Mora called bullshit on people complaining about $20. You say you're not complaining about $20. Okay, I don't care about anything else you said. In fact, I don't even care that you said that. This isn't a case where one exception matters. You're not an exception and even if you were it wouldn't matter.
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i thought about MLG not being worth 20 due to these threads that pop up and even watching a bit of lo3 made me feel it wasn't worth 20$, when the market is filled with free events and even GSL as a price competitor.
but then i saw the player list and paid instantly
hope their production is beyond anything we've seen , which would inspire people to support their corporation.
We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long.
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On February 16 2012 12:14 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 12:08 SACtheXchng wrote:On February 16 2012 11:11 Liquid`NonY wrote:On February 16 2012 10:48 Rulker wrote:On February 16 2012 10:30 Mora wrote:
It's a good thing that there are plenty of us out there who realize that $20 is basically no money at all and will more than make up for all the cheap bastards who don't want to pay for anything.
Seriously. $20? You guys are upset about $20?
Even when I worked for minimum wage I wouldn't mind paying $20.
Fuck, I've paid $30 to go to the local pro soccer team (for a single game). I've paid $300 season's tickets to that same soccer team. I've paid $100 to go to a concert. Going to see a movie at the theatre costs $15.
At times I identify with being a nerd, and other times I'm disgusted at how pathetic and cheap that group is. glad you have been able to go through life either riding on your parents money or gone through college debt free <3 You don't have to express your idea in such an asshole way. Even if a disadvantaged person can't pay yet, they could be posting "I love what MLG has given me so far for free and I want to do my part, but I can't yet. Wish you guys all the luck" and not go on posting "what the fuck is this $20 blah blah blah" etc all the bitching that people have done. But the point is the vast vast majority of SC2 fans can find $20 to pay if they had a good understanding of value. Oh, and what the other guy said, he did so in a non asshole way? I'm one of the people you talk about in your last sentence. I'm in a financial position where in fact $20 USD isn't all that much and I would certainly not miss a meal if I paid. That's the reason I shipped 20€ (which is more than $20 USD) to TotalBiscuit a few hours ago, and posted the PayPal screenshot in this thread. I did this for several reasons. 1. I have a good understanding of value. Total Biscuit is just about the only caster out there who manages to navigate through 10 sentences without dropping 11 "Uhs". 2. He cares. (Not only White-Ra does) He's either the best actor out there, or he actually cares about the growth of this out of love/passion that goes beyond self interest, as a bigger scene obviously is good for him and his wife and Kid financially. (pun incoming) But guess what, he gets it (my 20 bucks) and that prick who's spewing bullshit right now on Wheat's stream doesn't. 3. Shut people up. I'm not a poor student. I can spare $20. I'm not going to give them to organizations who I think are bad for what we all want. People accuse me of "hurting ESPORTS". Well, fuck them. I put more money into ESPORTS tonight than the self righteous fuck that bought an MLG pass and then went on accusing me of hurting it. I'm guilty as well of getting these points across "in an asshole way", but that's because... 4. I care! I dunno what you have against Sundance. If you're judging him based purely on that episode of Lo3, that's your own shortcoming. Everything else you've said is just agreeing with me or irrelevant? I don't know why you've written it. Mora called bullshit on people complaining about $20. You say you're not complaining about $20. Okay, I don't care about anything else you said. In fact, I don't even care that you said that. This isn't a case where one exception matters. You're not an exception and even if you were it wouldn't matter.
Why should I not judge him on hearing him talk about this issue? I think I got a pretty good picture of him. Is he a nice guy, if you get to know him privately? Maybe. In fact probably, but who gives a shit. Right now he's talking like an asshole about the thing I care.
And I don't think that people funding the industry you're living off of are irrelevant. That you don't care about anything else I said, doesn't surprise me. Afterall I'm not a "Team Liquid Veteran".
EDIT: Wow, now the guy got temp banned for that. That's actually making me sad.
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On February 16 2012 11:11 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:48 Rulker wrote:On February 16 2012 10:30 Mora wrote:
It's a good thing that there are plenty of us out there who realize that $20 is basically no money at all and will more than make up for all the cheap bastards who don't want to pay for anything.
Seriously. $20? You guys are upset about $20?
Even when I worked for minimum wage I wouldn't mind paying $20.
Fuck, I've paid $30 to go to the local pro soccer team (for a single game). I've paid $300 season's tickets to that same soccer team. I've paid $100 to go to a concert. Going to see a movie at the theatre costs $15.
At times I identify with being a nerd, and other times I'm disgusted at how pathetic and cheap that group is. glad you have been able to go through life either riding on your parents money or gone through college debt free <3 You don't have to express your idea in such an asshole way. Even if a disadvantaged person can't pay yet, they could be posting "I love what MLG has given me so far for free and I want to do my part, but I can't yet. Wish you guys all the luck" and not go on posting "what the fuck is this $20 blah blah blah" etc all the bitching that people have done. But the point is the vast vast majority of SC2 fans can find $20 to pay if they had a good understanding of value.
I think some people have had the "success" of esports go to their heads. It is a video game that a very small portion of the world can relate to and thus should be priced that way. The reason music and real sports are able to charge money to viewers is because there is a wide swath of people that relate to these mediums. Also, it has to be comparable to existing products in price, such as the GSL(a better product by far than what MLG produces) and the plethora of free SC2 content available. What the fuck is this $20 is a valid question and it not for you to tell people what to post or perceive as value.
I would expect this "scene" to last a couple of more years at most and will soon enough be put into its place. I wouldn't be excited about having to find a real job either.
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This event will be sick. The level of play really will be a whole step above Assembly, as I think only a small few at Assembly could have qualified for this event if they had tried and probably only Polt (on a very good day and at his peak) could have made it to the top 8 of the Korean qualifiers (I would say HerO too because sometimes he plays god-like on his stream and such but he has yet to truly prove himself in the GSL).
Anyway this will be a great event, definitely will have a lot of rooting interest here since the top 16 will be flown to Columbus, meaning I will get to meet/stand behind them and watch them play. (I am too hipster to watch the main stage stuff at MLGs, all I do at them is watch the featured stations. 1000x better than the mainstage IMO)
Hope the event is a success.
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I won't pay because I don't like the arena format. The true spirit of an MLG in my opinion is the interaction of players with fans, everyone will remember Raleigh for instance. MLG is a live event and should stay true to its origins.
What is the point of spending $100,000 to get players in NYC when there will be no crowd to cheer for them? (This was the same non-sense for TSL3).
I will support true MLGs, but not streamed event like this one.
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On February 16 2012 13:01 Sleed wrote:
I won't pay because I don't like the arena format. The true spirit of an MLG in my opinion is the interaction of players with fans, everyone will remember Raleigh for instance. MLG is a live event and should stay true to its origins.
What is the point of spending $100,000 to get players in NYC when there will be no crowd to cheer for them? (This was the same non-sense for TSL3).
I will support true MLGs, but not streamed event like this one.
because its a fair tournament. playing it on line means cross server play and shitty play times. it wont be a serious tournament if its online. $26k is too much to give away under shitty conditions for a lot of players
And if MLG wasn't holding live events anymore, I could see your argument, but they still are. these are additional events, which is awesome.
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It's a stupid move for MLG considering the competition at the moment.
There's so much content out there that people have to make choices what to watch anyways. And MLG is just not a big enough tournament to differentiate itself enough from a tournament that is free to watch imo.
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I will pay for this tournament even though I am a gold member and they kinda gave us the shaft (MLG), however i am very unhappy with the bold approach. I am going to pay for this tournmanet solely because of tha players in it - no other reason. I feel like it should be 10 dollars and gold members should be grandfathered in. A year ago MLG was not nearly as big as it is presenting itself to be in 2012 however I became very drawn as soon as they started getting a giant variety (globally) of all the best players. I then bought a gold pass, and I think that alot of people like me mid year started believing in MLG as an organization that is trying to provide the top quality to its viewers, as was I. Now all of a sudden I feel like 20 dollars is insanely too high to start as "additional content" and all of the reasoning for it in the initial post were all a distraction for how ridiculously high the pricing is. I'm sorry guys but you are screwing up and I will still pay for it because of the players there, but if you don;t start appealing to the majority of the people here like you did last year, I don't see MLG making it through 2012 being profitable.
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On February 16 2012 13:05 Eeevil wrote:
It's a stupid move for MLG considering the competition at the moment.
There's so much content out there that people have to make choices what to watch anyways. And MLG is just not a big enough tournament to differentiate itself enough from a tournament that is free to watch imo.
MLG is easily the biggest tournament after GSL. They pull all the best Koreans and there really is nothing even close to being like them.
GSL is a step ahead of MLG and MLG is a step ahead of everyone else at the moment.
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Yeah I understand the whole poor college student stuff, but honestly, its not that much. While having to pay for something that you didnt previously sucks, its worth the $20 imo.
Love or hate em, you gotta respect them for trying.
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EPT
