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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:04 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 04:19 legaton wrote:
Well, i guess we are just hearing the bubble pop
Today's business model is just not sustainable. Costs in the e-sports industry and specially in SC2 are extremely high. To run a LAN, you must face a huge investment for the location of the hall (several thousands dollars, if not more, for an MLG sized event). But SC2 LAN are specially expensive because you truly have a globalized game, so someone (either the teams or the event organizers) has to pay a small fortune on plane tickets. You also need a lot of fairly new computers as you could run into graphic lag if you use PC with bad graphic cards, and you need a top of the notch internet connection as you depend on it to play the game.
On the other hand, revenues are scarce. For a long time, the only sources of revenue were the entry fees of viewers (non existent on a closed door event as this one) and the ad revenue. Problem is the ad revenue is way smaller most people believe it is. Most events end up with red numbers, and huge event organizers are losing money. MLG only survives thanks to the gullibility of some venture capitalists that poured millions on a "booming" industry, but you can't ride for free forever. It is fair for them to try to cut their losses.
Sadly, MLG is fucked over. The ppp system works for sports events because they have a total monopoly on some sports. In boxing or in the UFC, you either pay or you don't see anything. In Starcraft, a 1000 euros monthly cup as the MSI/Millenium tournament has a roster as good as MLG. This business model is bound to fail too.
Bye bye SC2, it was nice knowing you. people ought to not use the word bubble when they have no idea what they're talking about. Also you provide alot of speculation with no citation whatsoever. MLG has been running for 10+ years, I doubt their previous ad-based model was constantly putting them in the red. Companies don't operate, even expand, on the basis of being red for so many years. So much for your speculations This isn't a case of "cutting your loses", its about attempting to use a new business model to achieve more profit. Simple as that
MLG gets money from investors.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/major-league-gaming-secures-additional-10-million-in-funding
On February 15 2012 05:04 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. I`m very interested in Data to back this statement up.
No data. Just good sources.
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So one $ per hour of commented live stream per viewer .. man if they need that much to break even, they clearly do not have a sustainable business model ..
They need to cut down their production cost, i can't imagine people are willing to pay for the high production quality (if it is that good..).
To put things in perspective: I'd pay like 10 Euro per year. At least MLG is only one of many tourneys.
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But some events use the tournaments as advertisment/pr events which are not the "main" thing... (Dreamhack, Assembly are Lans first and foremost, not tournaments).
While ohters live of them (MLG).
The sad part is, that the MLG product isn't better...
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On February 15 2012 05:11 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:04 iky43210 wrote:On February 15 2012 04:19 legaton wrote:
Well, i guess we are just hearing the bubble pop
Today's business model is just not sustainable. Costs in the e-sports industry and specially in SC2 are extremely high. To run a LAN, you must face a huge investment for the location of the hall (several thousands dollars, if not more, for an MLG sized event). But SC2 LAN are specially expensive because you truly have a globalized game, so someone (either the teams or the event organizers) has to pay a small fortune on plane tickets. You also need a lot of fairly new computers as you could run into graphic lag if you use PC with bad graphic cards, and you need a top of the notch internet connection as you depend on it to play the game.
On the other hand, revenues are scarce. For a long time, the only sources of revenue were the entry fees of viewers (non existent on a closed door event as this one) and the ad revenue. Problem is the ad revenue is way smaller most people believe it is. Most events end up with red numbers, and huge event organizers are losing money. MLG only survives thanks to the gullibility of some venture capitalists that poured millions on a "booming" industry, but you can't ride for free forever. It is fair for them to try to cut their losses.
Sadly, MLG is fucked over. The ppp system works for sports events because they have a total monopoly on some sports. In boxing or in the UFC, you either pay or you don't see anything. In Starcraft, a 1000 euros monthly cup as the MSI/Millenium tournament has a roster as good as MLG. This business model is bound to fail too.
Bye bye SC2, it was nice knowing you. people ought to not use the word bubble when they have no idea what they're talking about. Also you provide alot of speculation with no citation whatsoever. MLG has been running for 10+ years, I doubt their previous ad-based model was constantly putting them in the red. Companies don't operate, even expand, on the basis of being red for so many years. So much for your speculations This isn't a case of "cutting your loses", its about attempting to use a new business model to achieve more profit. Simple as that MLG gets money from investors. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/major-league-gaming-secures-additional-10-million-in-fundingShow nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:04 zul wrote:On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. I`m very interested in Data to back this statement up. No data. Just good sources.
ok, so? investors are given the balance sheet and income statement for MLG. They're not dumb, and are not going to invest so heavily in company in red as claimed
and where is your source that every big tourney loses money? go ahead, im waiting.
The guy I quoted knows absolutely nothing about the financial statements of MLG, everything he said is based off pure speculation. In your case, its based off flawed reasoning
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Sadly, as a casual fan I didn't even know about assembly until this. I'll be watching assembly instead, sorry MLG.
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On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money.
Actually all the big tournaments profit.
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$20 in itself is a reasonable price, but you can't start doing something like this when others are still offering it for free. Tone it down and wait for others to reach the point where they need to charge. This is not a good move.
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On February 15 2012 04:58 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 04:56 Broodwurst wrote:On February 15 2012 04:49 SimDawg wrote:On February 15 2012 04:31 Swiv wrote:
Just fyi, Take stated in an interview on readmore.de a week or so ago, that HSC4 has had black numbers, but only slightly black. HSC4 has sponsorships though. I'd be interested if those were included. What MLG is trying to get away from is reliance on VC. MLG has sponsorships, too. It's hidden, but if you look closely at the "Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream" it might give it away. HSC4 also had a premium stream option. I believe for 5 Euro you got an HD Stream + VoDs. Am I right? Lots of people purchased it cuz they actively wanted to support this unique tournament.
Yes thats right, I bought it.
Think they got about 2,500-3,500 HD viewers if I remember the view count. About 60,000-70,000 peak regular stream views.
At $20 MLG might get more, might get less. On one hand, there usual sustained view count is significantly larger. In addition, people who want to watch are forced to buy, there is no free alternative (barring restreams which I imagine will be popular). On the other hand, homestory was only $5, a fraction of the cost and is a grassroots tournament which makes people actively want to support it (hence why I bought the HD pass and only barely used it due to bandwidth). Also, homestory was immediately after the winterbreak when people were starved of starcraft. MLG will take place directly on top of another fine, free tournament, Assembly.
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On February 15 2012 05:19 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. Actually all the big tournaments profit.
I don't see why they would keep doing these if they lost money.
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I am a lurker here and usually never post but I felt to react on that one. If MLG was the only online event for that week end, I would pay without a doubt the 20$ (even if 12 or 15 would have been more appropriate). But, and there is a huge but, this is not the only online event that day. Assembly with an incredible line up given the competion that day is here as well. Conclusion I will save my 20$ to buy foods and drinks to watch at home and for free assembly.
Not picking a week end without competition was a huge mistake. I thought it would hurt badly assembly, it turns off that MLG will take the heavy blow. Anyway good luck for both league and players. After all 2 years ago who would have imagine that we would have argument about price of even and the number of events.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:19 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. Actually all the big tournaments profit.
Link to their balance sheets please.
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If you want to grow eSports, offering a free low quality option, is a good way to get new people watching. I can't convince my non-SC2 watching friends to shell out $20 for a weekend. If it's free I can tell them to put it on for a couple hours to see what they think. I guess I'm going to spread the word about Assembly instead.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:22 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:19 Chicane wrote:On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. Actually all the big tournaments profit. I don't see why they would keep doing these if they lost money.
Because they're hoping after they have a following that it becomes profitable.
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On February 15 2012 05:22 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:19 Chicane wrote:On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. Actually all the big tournaments profit. Link to their balance sheets please.
Look at what I responded to. I jokingly responded with my comment since he also provided no proof of what he was saying. I'm not saying he is wrong, but when he provides nothing with it, then it looks just as ridiculous as my post.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:24 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:22 Chill wrote:On February 15 2012 05:19 Chicane wrote:On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. Actually all the big tournaments profit. Link to their balance sheets please. Look at what I responded to. I jokingly responded with my comment since he also provided no proof of what he was saying. I'm not saying he is wrong, but when he provides nothing with it, then it looks just as ridiculous as my post.
Oh sorry I didn't follow  That's fair! ^^
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On February 15 2012 05:22 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:19 Chicane wrote:On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. Actually all the big tournaments profit. Link to their balance sheets please.
Isnt the fact that theyre still around "evidence" enough? Do you really think a tournament will survive if they lose money for 10 years straight? Do you actually think an organisation would even consider to rescue a "business" which paints red numbers for 10 years?
Well. I actually do believe that they are in the blacks, without seeing their balance sheets. Again, the fact that theyre still here is proof enough.
Edit: although it was a joke, i stick to my opinion. 
A tournament that would make consistenly a - at the end of the year wouldnt be around for so long.
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All the people who are fully against this, or who are unwilling to dish out money for Esports, better HOPE this fails miserably. Otherwise we'll all be in for a shock when tournaments, teams, and players, pick and choose which events to play based on the available revenue stream.
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Lastly, all matches will of course be made available free to everyone as VOD, one week after the Arena wraps up.
If this is true they did at least something right. I will not pay 20 $ for a weekend. It forces me to watch the whole tournement which is difficult in Gemany...for 5 $ i take it.
+ there are a lot of "beta"-caster
At least i think GSL is much more worth it and its cheaper for more games....
sorry for my bad english = )
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Bad decision, you're losing almost all of the people who would stream free to try it out then pay more for HQ. Now you're just getting the hardcore people and not building a larger base.
I assume you are in desperate need of immediate cashflow though.
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On February 15 2012 05:23 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 05:22 justinpal wrote:On February 15 2012 05:19 Chicane wrote:On February 15 2012 05:02 T.O.P. wrote:On February 15 2012 03:50 Kuni wrote:
Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it. All the big tournaments lose money. Actually all the big tournaments profit. I don't see why they would keep doing these if they lost money. Because they're hoping after they have a following that it becomes profitable.
MLG has been around a long time.
MLG claims to have been losing money for a long time.
I don't know what other buisness survives so long while having a model that loses money.
I call bullshit on MLG. The rest may be telling the truth though.
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EPT
