EPTMLG Winter Arena to be PPV - Page 142
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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit. Bans will be handed out. Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. | ||
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Swiv
Germany3674 Posts
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TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:31 Swiv wrote: Just fyi, Take stated in an interview on readmore.de a week or so ago, that HSC4 has had black numbers, but only slightly black. So this means that a 1 person management runs a HUGE tournament with better production value without charging everyone $20 to even see it and still make a small margin off profit while every player/caster already made it out that there probably won't be a better quality and entertaining tournament anytime soon. | ||
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Ricemagical
270 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:19 legaton wrote: Well, i guess we are just hearing the bubble pop Today's business model is just not sustainable. Costs in the e-sports industry and specially in SC2 are extremely high. To run a LAN, you must face a huge investment for the location of the hall (several thousands dollars, if not more, for an MLG sized event). But SC2 LAN are specially expensive because you truly have a globalized game, so someone (either the teams or the event organizers) has to pay a small fortune on plane tickets. You also need a lot of fairly new computers as you could run into graphic lag if you use PC with bad graphic cards, and you need a top of the notch internet connection as you depend on it to play the game. On the other hand, revenues are scarce. For a long time, the only sources of revenue were the entry fees of viewers (non existent on a closed door event as this one) and the ad revenue. Problem is the ad revenue is way smaller most people believe it is. Most events end up with red numbers, and huge event organizers are losing money. MLG only survives thanks to the gullibility of some venture capitalists that poured millions on a "booming" industry, but you can't ride for free forever. It is fair for them to try to cut their losses. Sadly, MLG is fucked over. The ppp system works for sports events because they have a total monopoly on some sports. In boxing or in the UFC, you either pay or you don't see anything. In Starcraft, a 1000 euros monthly cup as the MSI/Millenium tournament has a roster as good as MLG. This business model is bound to fail too. Bye bye SC2, it was nice knowing you. Um... what? IEM and dreamhack have been hosting lan tournaments for years and years. Even though warcraft 3 experienced a bubble burst with IEM (too many tournaments, a lot of prize money, not enough revenue; sound familiar?) they simply lowered the number of tournaments and the industry adapted to it. Even MLG has been hosting tournaments for years, and suddenly when their viewers are at their peak they experience a decrease in revenue? No it's cause they're trying to overextend their reach by paying for accommodations without the resources to do so, and as a result their asking the community to "keep esports alive" by paying for their over extension. | ||
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:19 legaton wrote: Well, i guess we are just hearing the bubble pop Today's business model is just not sustainable. Costs in the e-sports industry and specially in SC2 are extremely high. To run a LAN, you must face a huge investment for the location of the hall (several thousands dollars, if not more, for an MLG sized event). But SC2 LAN are specially expensive because you truly have a globalized game, so someone (either the teams or the event organizers) has to pay a small fortune on plane tickets. You also need a lot of fairly new computers as you could run into graphic lag if you use PC with bad graphic cards, and you need a top of the notch internet connection as you depend on it to play the game. On the other hand, revenues are scarce. For a long time, the only sources of revenue were the entry fees of viewers (non existent on a closed door event as this one) and the ad revenue. Problem is the ad revenue is way smaller most people believe it is. Most events end up with red numbers, and huge event organizers are losing money. MLG only survives thanks to the gullibility of some venture capitalists that poured millions on a "booming" industry, but you can't ride for free forever. It is fair for them to try to cut their losses. Sadly, MLG is fucked over. The ppp system works for sports events because they have a total monopoly on some sports. In boxing or in the UFC, you either pay or you don't see anything. In Starcraft, a 1000 euros monthly cup as the MSI/Millenium tournament has a roster as good as MLG. This business model is bound to fail too. Bye bye SC2, it was nice knowing you. But not every tournament ships over 32 players there and back again to compete. Take away those costs and you're down to a number that is much easier to turn into a profit. MLG clearly did not feel like they wanted to do what they did last season so they are trying this route. It might mean a backlash for MLG but so far no other tournament has tried to make this high risk/high reward thing. So the fact that SC2 would die just because ONE MLG event does not go as planned is just silly. Did the world implode when the NASL season 1 finals were going on? or the PPSL? Nope. As long as tournament organizers are happy with a slower, more secure growth then there is nothing to fear. Sadly, this has not been the case with esports in the past since we've had bubbles blow up and pop several times before, nothing new to see here. | ||
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Starp
Canada199 Posts
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SevenShots
Germany84 Posts
20$ is way too much and therefore the viewer count will drop. with dropping viewer count the sponsors will drop away and bye bye mlg >.< | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:40 TechSc2 wrote: So this means that a 1 person management runs a HUGE tournament with better production value without charging everyone $20 to even see it and still make a small margin off profit while every player/caster already made it out that there probably won't be a better quality and entertaining tournament anytime soon. It was a small tournament with a relatively small prize pool and none of the players were flown in on take's money. He also had a lot of people volunteering for free. Don't get me wrong, I love the tournament, but that's just a dumb comparison | ||
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xtruder
Afghanistan135 Posts
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-ForeverAlone-
274 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote: But not every tournament ships over 32 players there and back again to compete. Take away those costs and you're down to a number that is much easier to turn into a profit. MLG clearly did not feel like they wanted to do what they did last season so they are trying this route. It might mean a backlash for MLG but so far no other tournament has tried to make this high risk/high reward thing. So the fact that SC2 would die just because ONE MLG event does not go as planned is just silly. Did the world implode when the NASL season 1 finals were going on? or the PPSL? Nope. As long as tournament organizers are happy with a slower, more secure growth then there is nothing to fear. Sadly, this has not been the case with esports in the past since we've had bubbles blow up and pop several times before, nothing new to see here. What's the added value of a live tournament with no audience? Arguably production value is increased due to timezones and they have a bit more control over what's going on... but not $20s worth. | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:31 Swiv wrote: Just fyi, Take stated in an interview on readmore.de a week or so ago, that HSC4 has had black numbers, but only slightly black. HSC4 has sponsorships though. I'd be interested if those were included. What MLG is trying to get away from is reliance on VC. | ||
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RonNation
United States385 Posts
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FiNTer
Finland153 Posts
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StaN.de
Germany50 Posts
@MLG Management: You should have a look at the Wikipedia article "Price Elasticity"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand | ||
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morbvs
Germany358 Posts
Interesting as well that there is a double booking again with mlg... Anyone remeber IEM New York? I don't know but I just can't like mlg... Everything is just too american and seems soulless and unpersonal somehow. They just seem to want to offer a huge amount of features... In the end your brain can only really comprehend what happens on one stream anyway. By the way... Turtle Entertainment (the company behind esl) had a whole broadcasting channel purely for eSports. It brought all the live coverage of EPS, IEM, WC3L, Blizzards events, quakecon, WSOVG and some other events (and at that time there basically weren't much other events that mattered and no other professional streams coz they had exclusive broadcasting rights at most of those events), weekly shows for every game, eSports related News, VOD section, community interaction and so forth. It was called Giga 2 and they charged about 5€ for a MONTH. So compared to this it was incredible value for money and it still was a failure... They had to introduce a LQ free stream later and after a while it was shut down completely and it now is ESL TV. But they lowered the amount of personell and content a lot. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
On February 14 2012 08:11 Chill wrote: I can't see that actually be illegal. I could see it being a requirement if UFC wants it to be a requirement. And since MLG is promoting barcraft in their press release, it's fair to assume they've waived that. Well, it's a felony to stream broadcast TV through the internet, for example, a west coast NBA game being streamed somewhere on the east coast. Makes total sense right? >_> | ||
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CosmoK
339 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:47 syllogism wrote: It was a small tournament with a relatively small prize pool and none of the players were flown in on take's money. He also had a lot of people volunteering for free. Don't get me wrong, I love the tournament, but that's just a dumb comparison TaKe did fly the winners of the qualification cups out and paid for their entire stay. | ||
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Coolhwip
Sweden1381 Posts
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SevenShots
Germany84 Posts
still i wouldnt even go to a barcraft if the stream is ppv | ||
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ZerguufOu
United States107 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:19 legaton wrote: Well, i guess we are just hearing the bubble pop Today's business model is just not sustainable. Costs in the e-sports industry and specially in SC2 are extremely high. To run a LAN, you must face a huge investment for the location of the hall (several thousands dollars, if not more, for an MLG sized event). But SC2 LAN are specially expensive because you truly have a globalized game, so someone (either the teams or the event organizers) has to pay a small fortune on plane tickets. You also need a lot of fairly new computers as you could run into graphic lag if you use PC with bad graphic cards, and you need a top of the notch internet connection as you depend on it to play the game. On the other hand, revenues are scarce. For a long time, the only sources of revenue were the entry fees of viewers (non existent on a closed door event as this one) and the ad revenue. Problem is the ad revenue is way smaller most people believe it is. Most events end up with red numbers, and huge event organizers are losing money. MLG only survives thanks to the gullibility of some venture capitalists that poured millions on a "booming" industry, but you can't ride for free forever. It is fair for them to try to cut their losses. Sadly, MLG is fucked over. The ppp system works for sports events because they have a total monopoly on some sports. In boxing or in the UFC, you either pay or you don't see anything. In Starcraft, a 1000 euros monthly cup as the MSI/Millenium tournament has a roster as good as MLG. This business model is bound to fail too. Bye bye SC2, it was nice knowing you. SC2 is fine.. Look at GSL, the most prestigious tournament. Still tons of viewers who are willing to pay. MLG has an isolated problem. They have to constantly fly in top koreans for people to even watch MLG. I didnt start watching MLG until they started to bring in top koreans. However, this method can possibly bankrupt MLG. If they have to spend a 100k per tournament just to fly, house and feed the top players, how long can they sustain this? GSL doesnt have to pay anyone to come and play in the tournament because its played in korea where all the best players are. Top foreigners who want to compete are willing to pay with their own money (desrow) or have teams/sponsors who will pay for them (idra, huk). This isnt the case with MLG. I believe the burden is on American pros to raise their level of game to such a high level that MLG doesnt have to fly in top koreans to attract viewers. If they can attract viewers with just our domestic players (like korea does with GSL), then they can significantly reduce the 100k in additional overhead. MLG can grow from the "inside out" and possibly grow to such a level where the prize money is sufficient for "foriegners" to willingly spend their own money or their teams/sponsors money to travel to the US and compete. But trying to sustain a system thats soley dependent on "foreigners" seems doomed to fail. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:53 CosmoK wrote: TaKe did fly the winners of the qualification cups out and paid for their entire stay. You are right, I do remember something like that now that I think about it. Regardless, that was only a few people and certainly not on the scale mlg is doing. | ||
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