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On February 16 2012 00:40 D10 wrote:
Laddering is very stressful, hard to find practice partners due to bad chat, and the more I dont play the less I want to
You can find a thread on tl and get a practice partner bro or already leave your info of someone sees what they like. We know bnet is kinda shitty unless you have rl friends who play this and care about improvement of any short. Either learn to defend the onslaught of cheese and all INS and then practices with people to work on tourneys or new builds
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On February 16 2012 01:03 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 01:00 SoraLimit wrote:On February 16 2012 00:15 DreamChaser wrote:On February 15 2012 23:11 darkscream wrote:
New season = everyone plays ladder
thread has become obsolete No no no, everyone plays placement matches. Then they stop playing again. It's pretty counterinituitive that people do this, since the ladder reset is suppose to show who is actually active in the game. Many many people do this
The sad reality of casuals that ruin our conquest to improve on Lader but in the end its a gauge of how wel you defend random All INS and from time to time a real match.
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Well, i think most of the reasons i will list now have already been said, but i'll list them anyway to show my opinion.
I'm a Master Protoss on EU and i'm going to play a lot more this season but the last season i played only a few games compared to the seasons before.
- A big reason is the problem that like 90% of players play to win. I don't exclude myself of this. Almost everyone wants to win. That's why i use almost the same two if not only one strategy for each match-up. And so do others aswell. That's going to get kind of boring but its necessary that you play you're A-game because none of the players i usually face play to get into lategame. Unfortunately i love lategame, i think due to my race  but others don't. But if you try to do something new you'll get your ass kicked and that's why ladder isn't really a place to practice unless you play a huge amount of game. That brings me to the next reason.
- If i want to practice I take a mate and play him over and over again. Despite the fact that there is metagaming involved some games later (which is interesting and you almost never have this kind of metagame in the ladder) i can train a special matchup. Due to unknown reasons i face a lot more Protoss and Zerg than Terran. If i want to play against Terran i have to play like 10 games to get 1 Terran that is playing a macrogame.
- Third reason is the MMR system. The idea of facing opponents that are on the same skill level is fine but it's hard to implement. Right now i play against players that i literally crush and i feel like the next GSL superstar. A few games later my MMR got higher and i get crushed all the time and i get into bad mood. With the lose streak in front of my eyes i don't play a lot after a winning streak, because i don't want to be in bad mood of course  The MMR shifts should be a lot softer in my opinion.
- A fourth reason in my opinion is the PvT lategame. It's obvious that on lower skill level it's just too hard to play terran versus Protoss lategame. Terran has to do so many thing at once and just gets owned by my zealots that i a-click into his army. That has often been discussed but i think it's a huge problem. It doesn't frustrate me as a protoss player of course but indirectly it affects me, because the half of the Terrans that haven't stopped laddering just play 111 or some other strange stuff, because the lategame is too hard.
- a fifth reason is the division ranking system. What's the point here? If i want to be top 8 Masters i just start playing some days after the GM league has been established. I think there should be more different leagues anyway because if there are more leagues there will be a goal to reach. Most of the players are stuck in the middle of their league and they don't play for promotion or against demotion.
- the last of the reasons that i think of as the biggest reasons are the maps. I like that blizzard finally put in a GSL map, but why not more maps and why is Antiga not cross only? I don't have vetoed any map because the mappool is as short as it is but due to other players' vetoes i only play on 4 different maps. I don't see a point why there shouldn't be 15 differents maps.
Due to these reasons laddering just gets monotone.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, give us a damn daily tournament like you had in wc3.
It's already there in another game! surely it can't be that hard to implement.
I'm sure there are others like me, I never really played much ladder in wc3, but I played alot of tournaments. It was fun.
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bad mannre isn't a reason. The manners were terrible on Brood War and many people played anyway. People play DotA and LoL and such and I hear it's pretty terrible there (worse).
I think one of the big problems is that the ranking system sucks in that it doesn't rank you well — being in different divisions or different regions make the ranks hard to compare. Even if the ranking was fine, the other issue is
• Inflation, and
• Having to play lots of games regularly
If they improved the ranking and points system, then that might keep some people's interest more. Keeping track of legit melee games played might also help people stay in the game, even if it isn't the ladder.
Fixing b.net 2.0 would probably help the ladder a bit — technically the ladder is part of b.net too even. What fixing battle.net would help most are the custom game players of course — which is still a big deal. Many people might want to take custom game breaks before and/or after laddering, and without a good system they might hence play less ladder too even.
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On February 16 2012 01:40 [F_]aths wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2012 00:40 Penecks wrote:
I still play 1v1s, usually everyday, but I can see why people would stop. My two negative points about it, I'm sure they've been touched on:
1) Treadmill feeling - no matter how much you improve you still lose half of your games. This is incredibly unintuitive to players from other games/genres. If I'm masters and my friend is silver, you'd say the skill difference is pretty high there, yet when we play ladder we lose the same amount. If we were Counterstrike players with these same skill levels, for example, and I said our global K/D was the same you wouldn't believe it: the better players have a chance to stand out in those games. If the match maker would lean more towards the average skill to get you an opponent, resulting in higher win ratios for above-average players, the below-average players would lose more game and most probably quit the game rather sooner than later. While the current system which attempts to get you an even win ratio is frustrating for some, I think it is the lesser evil.
I can see that, and I'm not sure what they can do, however, it also pretty much eliminates the reward for being a good player, which is that you get to beat worse opponents who are not as practiced/have slower reflexes/know less about the game. Looking back throughout gaming history, before games started becoming grindfests for titles/skins/XP bonuses, being better so that you were able to beat more players was the whole "competitive" point to most games. I remember practicing the manual aim in Goldeneye64, for what reason, other than I would later be able to beat my friends when we played. There was no ranking or portraits or ladder divisions, people were becoming better so that they would more easily be able to handle themselves against fellow players. The ladder system as it is implemented in SC2 has eliminated this.
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On February 16 2012 04:18 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Personnally i stopped to play 1v1 because of the player's manners.
Basically i encountered three kinds of people in 1v1:
1- People who, when they loose, insult you.
2- People who, when they win, insult you.
3- Lots of people who just ignore you during the game ( don't even bother to chat, i mean what's the point to play multi if you don't interact or get to communicate with the ones you're playing with Oo ).
Then i switched to only multiplayer ladder and customs minigames because, even if there are still lots of people who insult, you find way more opportunities to have a good chat since usually your teammates will communicate with you. You can have some fun with other people and you see less insults since people actually don't really care when they loose or win in multi.
I even started to play LoL and I honestly think sc2 atmosphere in 1v1 was just as bad as in this game xD
I even remember my first ladder game on sc2. I've been matched with a guy of the 3rd kind (see above). After the game i went to check if i was really against someone or if i did not make a mistake and played a game against the cpu...
Ok dude first off everyone knows Moba communities in general are bad. bm tier is as such dota 1 community> lol> Moba s>> console fps and Call of duty players.> wow> starcraft 2 trolls who migrated from other games because out was a booty game and they are douche bags who could get a rise out of people. Because I believe as a community that the starcraft community is a good community we just have a pocket off petiole who are stick in play who have their heads stuck up their asses thinking they are the greatest player every and birch and scream because they had their 2 rax defended.
I have had endless bm an trolling try hards in lol. LoL has the every Moba game every syndrome that everyone knows every thing or you should uninstall and commit suicide because you didn't do the right skill build and that is 85% of pub games. It isn't much better in premades unless you are all ultra gosu and lose because someone refused to get wars when they are support and get a mana crystal first.and lose because we didn't see the gank because we didn't have Watts.already on starcraft if I lose I can be like I should have had a couple more sentries our I should have spot NY army more or I could have scouted. In Dota2 and lol as they are the Moba that I have experienced if you aren't vocal on game shit doesn't work right at all.and who at any give time had 4 other dependable team mates who all pay the same game because of rl schedules and such.
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I will say sc2 maybe its too easy to do build order , or things such as colossus / stim / etc / all in timing are extremely strong and good at pub stomping. They much easier to pull off then BW because of the AI and infinite control groups , so its harder for beginner to enjoy fun game experience in SC2 right off the bat
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I think its also because SC2 is not so easy to just pick up when you stop playing, its not exactly a game you just "feel" when you start playing again. What i mean by "feel" is i am a decent FPS gamer i can pick up something like Halo or CoD and just play it for fun and go at least positive in my KD. The most i have to remind myself to do in FPS are just not to run around corners if i follow that rule for the most part i don't die.
SC2 if i stopped playing for a few months then i tried to play again the metagame shifts and suddenly 3gate sentry expand is obsolete and getting rolled by muta-ling.
TBH theres no way to fix this, Blizzard tried their best to make the game as noob friendly as possible but RTS's in general are a game of precision, you wont get away with those same builds 6 months ago pre-patch.
Not remebering your BO causes its been a few months means you are just going in blind and probably going to lose, forgetting to build probes etc....
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On February 16 2012 10:41 starcraftred wrote:
I will say sc2 maybe its too easy to do build order , or things such as colossus / stim / etc / all in timing are extremely strong and good at pub stomping. They much easier to pull off then BW because of the AI and infinite control groups , so its harder for beginner to enjoy fun game experience in SC2 right off the bat
>Easier to do.
>Harder to enjoy.
What?
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On February 16 2012 10:56 DreamChaser wrote:
I think its also because SC2 is not so easy to just pick up when you stop playing, its not exactly a game you just "feel" when you start playing again. What i mean by "feel" is i am a decent FPS gamer i can pick up something like Halo or CoD and just play it for fun and go at least positive in my KD. The most i have to remind myself to do in FPS are just not to run around corners if i follow that rule for the most part i don't die.
SC2 if i stopped playing for a few months then i tried to play again the metagame shifts and suddenly 3gate sentry expand is obsolete and getting rolled by muta-ling.
TBH theres no way to fix this, Blizzard tried their best to make the game as noob friendly as possible but RTS's in general are a game of precision, you wont get away with those same builds 6 months ago pre-patch.
Not remebering your BO causes its been a few months means you are just going in blind and probably going to lose, forgetting to build probes etc....
Please don't blame RTS-genre, it has nothing to do why SC2 declining. I still enjoy BW. I can spend endless hours playing with my mate on good old Lost Temple. We are not equal skill-wise (I win 75% games) and we don't know any particular build order , but we still enjoy it. We play same map all the time, mostly long macro games where I have 15 hatches and he has 20 gates, and we clash somewhere in the middle with endless stream of units. We can do funny stuff, like doom drops, dt drops, multi-prone attacks and more, but neither of these gimmicks outright win the game. We have a lot of fun.
We tried SC2 (1v1 or 2v2 ladder). and it was meh. I think SC2 is just a bad game. It has nothing to do with battle.net 0.2 or BM. The game is not interesting at all.
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On February 16 2012 10:21 OFCORPSE wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, give us a damn daily tournament like you had in wc3.
It's already there in another game! surely it can't be that hard to implement.
I'm sure there are others like me, I never really played much ladder in wc3, but I played alot of tournaments. It was fun.
I completely agree. Tournaments would definitely bring me back into playing.
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On February 13 2012 23:08 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:05 Silentenigma wrote:
Because it is not fun to play against abusers BM ers alliners.
Last time I played 99 percent of my games were 1 or 2 base allins(was mid masters).It is almost impossible to play a standard game...I would much rather to play custom games against similar skilled people. I really dislike this mindset, and I think it is the cause of a lot of the bad manners that I encounter on the ladder. I dont think there is any such thing as cheese or all-in. Aggressive strategies are a very important part of the game. I have noticed that the idea of cheese does not exist with koreans, and perhaps this is an important part of why they are so good.
You don't think there is such a thing as an all-in...
uhh... that is one of the most retarded things I have ever heard
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It's dropped just due to the age of starcraft 2, once heart of the swarm comes back it'll rise back up. Also for me it's not that it takes to much time but that my time and focus are being taken up by other things.
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The main reason that I have been playing SC2 for 1 year and 2 months now is because I am competitive and very tactical in the way I think. Some of my favorite moments when laddering is when a surround that I set up comes together perfectly, giving me a full surround and crushing my opponents army. I love the sight of my plan being executed and working to perfection.
Another reason that I play is that I love the rush I get from coming from behind to win a game or completely outplay my opponent in every way. This stems from my competitive nature, which not all people have.
What I'm saying is that it can be hard to play SC2 for a long time if you don't have that drive to get better. If you play the game once a month and are forever bronze, then I could see how the game would become boring. StarCraft 2 is a game that not everyone will love. There isn't the instant gratification of getting a kill in an FPS, but a more rewarding feeling from hours of hard work when your finally get that league promotion or win that tournament.
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Hoping for sc2ranks to release S6 stats soon, wonder if the number will be significantly lower.
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Why don't I ladder? Because I think SC2 right now is a bad game, not even fun to spectate. I'm giving it until HotS beta to shape itself up, if it doesn't then I'm not buying HotS.
Why am I not even on B.net 2.0 much? Because it's TERRIBLE. UMS maps were half the reason I was excited to buy SC2 (and did so on the midnight release), and what do I get? Like 16 shitty maps to choose from, none of the others will fill. No more starting an Elements RPG or a Kyprion Pact RPG game and watching it fill. It's such a shame because the SC2 map editor has such potential, but it doesn't even matter thanks to Battle.net 0.2
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I just don't find the game fun. In season 1 it was fresh and new, but over time that faded and what was left I just didn't enjoy playing.
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People don't like having to be committed to a game for long periods of time just to rank up. They want something that they can just hop on, play for a couple hours every once and a while, and still win games. In SC2 you have to keep up your mechanics which is something that not many people are used to.
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I think it's completly normal that players lose their interest in the game when it gets older. This is a normal process, but of course Blizzard could do sth. that it wouldn't be that drastically.
The first point is of course the lack of improvements. The UI is shitty, no Clan Support ... many players would stay with the game for a longer time when they notice that many new things get added over time.
The prize is the next problem. I know many people in my school who would like to play SCII but don't wanna pay 40€ for it although it's 2 years old already.
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EPT
