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At least from my experience with SC2 my largest turn off was how efficient unit compositions can be, its very rare to see fights that are actually slug-fests where one army wins but is critically hurt, you'll instead see the army with the better composition steamroll the other army and lose nearly nothing in the exchange.
As a Protoss player I've had times where I've thrown so many resources at broodlord infestor compositions and gotten nothing done at all, but as soon as I get a mothership out suddenly our roles our reversed. Or against terran, a stimmed bio ball could completely roll through my gateway army, but if I get high templar or colossus and he doesn't have the appropriate counter suddenly I'm the one rolling him and losing very few units in the exchange. I'm not saying the person with the better composition shouldn't win or even that any of these situations are unavoidable/imbalanced, but these one sided exchanges that happen frequently(not all the time) aren't very exciting or fun for me regardless of if I'm on the winning or losing end of them.
Though I'm taking a break from playing I do actually enjoy watching the pros play quite a bit,and every now and then you do see a really back and forth match between two great players and it's quite exciting to watch but overall that's why I've stopped laddering.
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On February 16 2012 02:25 Gescom wrote:
I think some of you are looking way to deep. The bulk of players exist in bronze/silver and the number is decreasing for 1v1/2v2/team/ffa/etc (realistically the number of players logged in to sc2 bnet in general is DOWN). Why is that? Because the game is not that fun that everyone would want to be playing for two years straight. Probably half of the people who bought SC2 played some campaign and a few customs vs AI and never even logged into bnet. Out of those that did, lots of people probably played a couple dozen solos in S1/S2 and that's it.
If the game were more balance or had a better map pool (the game is already really well balanced and has a good map pool) would there be more people playing? Probably not, tbh.
You'll see another influx of players with HotS and then it'll steadily drop off again. I don't think it's really a problem.
The fact is RTS is not that popular like it was back in SC1 day. Many people bought SC2 just because they think "woww this Esport is huge I wanna try it" but in the end they just don't like RTS game and can't really keep playing. MMO/FPS/MOBA are hottest genre these day.
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On February 16 2012 02:29 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:25 Gescom wrote:
I think some of you are looking way to deep. The bulk of players exist in bronze/silver and the number is decreasing for 1v1/2v2/team/ffa/etc (realistically the number of players logged in to sc2 bnet in general is DOWN). Why is that? Because the game is not that fun that everyone would want to be playing for two years straight. Probably half of the people who bought SC2 played some campaign and a few customs vs AI and never even logged into bnet. Out of those that did, lots of people probably played a couple dozen solos in S1/S2 and that's it.
If the game were more balance or had a better map pool (the game is already really well balanced and has a good map pool) would there be more people playing? Probably not, tbh.
You'll see another influx of players with HotS and then it'll steadily drop off again. I don't think it's really a problem. The fact is RTS is not that popular like it was back in SC1 day. Many people bought SC2 just because they think "woww this Esport is huge I wanna try it" but in the end they just don't like RTS game and can't really keep playing. MMO/FPS/MOBA are hottest genre these day.
Absolutely. RTS is a very unforgiving game style, Blizz tried their hardest to sugarcoat the system, and it worked to an extent -- I mean, the game sold A LOT. I am sure MORE people bought sc1 and never really played it (ie. never went on bnet, didnt play the game more than 20-30hrs) when compared to sc2.
Blizz doesn't get any $ by keeping people on bnet. Why is it important to them?
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I still love the game, but these numbers seem to reflect about the time I started playing less. It got to a point where laddering just wasn't doing it for me anymore and finding practice games is a pain. After a while I just decided to try other games and got into LoL for a few months, then moved onto Dota 2 when they started sending beta keys. After I started playing Dota 2 full time, I would jump on for a game or two a week and ended up getting demoted to Diamond...so just decided to quit SC2 until I can play it full time again.
It will be interesting what comes in HoTS, but Blizzard really needs to do some improvements to get people back. Battle.net really is still lackluster and they seem to just ignore the competitive scene. It is frustrating to watch GSL on some neat maps, then ladder and play on Xel'Naga and lose to some silly gimmick because the map is bad.
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On February 16 2012 02:32 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:29 Wildmoon wrote:On February 16 2012 02:25 Gescom wrote:
I think some of you are looking way to deep. The bulk of players exist in bronze/silver and the number is decreasing for 1v1/2v2/team/ffa/etc (realistically the number of players logged in to sc2 bnet in general is DOWN). Why is that? Because the game is not that fun that everyone would want to be playing for two years straight. Probably half of the people who bought SC2 played some campaign and a few customs vs AI and never even logged into bnet. Out of those that did, lots of people probably played a couple dozen solos in S1/S2 and that's it.
If the game were more balance or had a better map pool (the game is already really well balanced and has a good map pool) would there be more people playing? Probably not, tbh.
You'll see another influx of players with HotS and then it'll steadily drop off again. I don't think it's really a problem. The fact is RTS is not that popular like it was back in SC1 day. Many people bought SC2 just because they think "woww this Esport is huge I wanna try it" but in the end they just don't like RTS game and can't really keep playing. MMO/FPS/MOBA are hottest genre these day. Absolutely. RTS is a very unforgiving game style, Blizz tried their hardest to sugarcoat the system, and it worked to an extent -- I mean, the game sold A LOT. I am sure MORE people bought sc1 and never really played it (ie. never went on bnet, didnt play the game more than 20-30hrs) when compared to sc2. Blizz doesn't get any $ by keeping people on bnet. Why is it important to them?
SC2 sold pretty well. It hold fastest selling rts game of all time right now. It sold 3 million copies in one month but I don't really know how much it sold right now but when compare to something like CoD or WoW SC2, SC2 didn't really sold well
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The main reason why I don't play ladder anymore is that I can't no-life it. Ladder does not allow that, you can't play hardcore for a month, get to diamond or master, then take a month break, and come back and continue as you were. If you stop playing for longer than a couple of days, you play terribly and you need many games to come back, for me it's 15-20 games after long breaks. Well, I usually don't feel like logging in to SC2 just to get smashed 20 games in a row and maybe even get demoted, play for a week, then need to do irl stuff, then do that all over again... It's frustrating, stressful and it makes me feel terrible, and I don't play videogames to feel terrible.
That's why I mostly play LoL these days. Taking breaks has no effect there, all you need is a good team, knowledge about the game and basic hand-eye coordination. I also find myself watching more LoL streams than SC2 streams, but that's got more to do with the fact that there are some really excellent LoL streamers out there, highly energetic, humorous and entertaining to watch and listen to, while unfortunately the vast majority of SC2 streamers are either mute or boring.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On February 16 2012 02:32 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:29 Wildmoon wrote:On February 16 2012 02:25 Gescom wrote:
I think some of you are looking way to deep. The bulk of players exist in bronze/silver and the number is decreasing for 1v1/2v2/team/ffa/etc (realistically the number of players logged in to sc2 bnet in general is DOWN). Why is that? Because the game is not that fun that everyone would want to be playing for two years straight. Probably half of the people who bought SC2 played some campaign and a few customs vs AI and never even logged into bnet. Out of those that did, lots of people probably played a couple dozen solos in S1/S2 and that's it.
If the game were more balance or had a better map pool (the game is already really well balanced and has a good map pool) would there be more people playing? Probably not, tbh.
You'll see another influx of players with HotS and then it'll steadily drop off again. I don't think it's really a problem. The fact is RTS is not that popular like it was back in SC1 day. Many people bought SC2 just because they think "woww this Esport is huge I wanna try it" but in the end they just don't like RTS game and can't really keep playing. MMO/FPS/MOBA are hottest genre these day. Absolutely. RTS is a very unforgiving game style, Blizz tried their hardest to sugarcoat the system, and it worked to an extent -- I mean, the game sold A LOT. I am sure MORE people bought sc1 and never really played it (ie. never went on bnet, didnt play the game more than 20-30hrs) when compared to sc2. Blizz doesn't get any $ by keeping people on bnet. Why is it important to them?
Because their good reputation with updates and shit made 10 effing Million people pay 11$/month for World of Warcraft. And now they fuck their reputation for the sake of saving a bit money on B.net and refusing to give the players LAN??? How fucking greedily stupid can a company get?
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On February 16 2012 02:37 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 02:32 Gescom wrote:On February 16 2012 02:29 Wildmoon wrote:On February 16 2012 02:25 Gescom wrote:
I think some of you are looking way to deep. The bulk of players exist in bronze/silver and the number is decreasing for 1v1/2v2/team/ffa/etc (realistically the number of players logged in to sc2 bnet in general is DOWN). Why is that? Because the game is not that fun that everyone would want to be playing for two years straight. Probably half of the people who bought SC2 played some campaign and a few customs vs AI and never even logged into bnet. Out of those that did, lots of people probably played a couple dozen solos in S1/S2 and that's it.
If the game were more balance or had a better map pool (the game is already really well balanced and has a good map pool) would there be more people playing? Probably not, tbh.
You'll see another influx of players with HotS and then it'll steadily drop off again. I don't think it's really a problem. The fact is RTS is not that popular like it was back in SC1 day. Many people bought SC2 just because they think "woww this Esport is huge I wanna try it" but in the end they just don't like RTS game and can't really keep playing. MMO/FPS/MOBA are hottest genre these day. Absolutely. RTS is a very unforgiving game style, Blizz tried their hardest to sugarcoat the system, and it worked to an extent -- I mean, the game sold A LOT. I am sure MORE people bought sc1 and never really played it (ie. never went on bnet, didnt play the game more than 20-30hrs) when compared to sc2. Blizz doesn't get any $ by keeping people on bnet. Why is it important to them? SC2 sold pretty well. It hold fastest selling rts game of all time right now. It sold 3 million copies in one month but I don't really know how much it sold right now but when compare to something like CoD or WoW SC2, SC2 didn't really sold well
Well of course it sold less than CoD/WoW, but it is the best selling RTS of all time. Even with the "bad" numbers shown in the OP, it probably also has the highest % of people playing in a 'competitive' environment, and also the highest retention rate.
edit -- lol Fenrax what the heck are you talking about man? They lived up to their good reputation, we just got a new patch and updates this week. The $60 for SC2 was worth every penny. Where does the no LAN come in here exactly...? X_X
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I still follow the scene, but I stopped playing because SC2 isn't a great game to have fun with friends. I mean yes, you can troll around with 4s and such, but it gets played out really fast...and the custom game quality is definitely up for debate. The heart of starcraft is in 1v1, something that I find just gets a bit dull or at the very least lonely to play.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On February 16 2012 01:20 ozeake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 01:14 kusto wrote:On February 16 2012 00:54 ozeake wrote:On February 15 2012 22:31 kusto wrote:On February 15 2012 22:28 Zanazuah wrote:On February 15 2012 22:21 kusto wrote:On February 15 2012 22:09 ozeake wrote:
Personally, I don't really ladder these days because it makes me angry.
Not just when I lose, mind - even when I win I get angry. If I win, I'm angry at the other person's lack of skill (since typically there will be some glaring mistake(s) they made) and if I lose, I'm angry at myself for not doing better. So, I save myself the aggravation and just don't play on the ladder. Sorry but that's not ladder-specific at all. Yes it is. He doesent get mad by team games or customs obviously. Obviously people in team games and customs also make mistakes. And so does he. Yes, but the point is that it is not the same situation. In custom games there is nothing at stake and most people don't take team games seriously. I will teill you what my problem is with his statement. He says that he gets mad in ladder because of the mistakes he and his opponent make. It seems that this is not entirely true, because you make mistakes if you play no matter where. The only difference between the two "play-modes" he presents is that 1. 1v1 ladder: you are alone and ladder points are at stake, also tend to identify yourself with your league and points 2. Custom games/team games (also team games ladder): you don not feel as responsible for the mistakes done by the team, thus do not identify yourself with the league of the team. In custom games, obviously you make even more mistakes if you don't take it as serious, so his argument for not playing customs would be even increased. This means that you are actually right when you say that something is at stake - it's ranking. If you don't care about your ranking, then 1v1 ladder is very much fun. Are you intentionally being this anal-retentive? Outside of actual tournaments, ladder is as competitive as anything gets on SC2. So, if I make mistakes when I am trying to play as well as I can, I get mad. If the other person plays like shit, it doesn't feel like a worthwhile match.
Ladder is as competitive as you want it to be. It is as much at stake as you yourself put in there. You certainly can identify yourself with the silly icon some guy from Blizzard designed and therefore your pride is at stake, and whatnot.
Or you can just enjoy queued games against people with approximately your skill. If you want to be stressed out, then be. Even pro gamers off race or do silly strats just to relax from practice or have a bit fun and showcase interesting strats on stream with their main account. Nobody gives a fuck.
If you don't care about some delusional icon with points, you will have more fun. Simple as that.
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I stopped playing because I really can't be bothered to play tvt. I don't find it fun, i've tried finding a way to play it which is fun for me but this just doesn't seem possible. I can't choose what race I want to play against unless it's in custom and I want to play people of a similar or better skill than me most of the time so I'm just wasting my time as you can't go on custom and quit unless you log out or wait for game to load than leave. Blizzard are just cunts tbh.
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On February 16 2012 02:09 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 01:38 superstartran wrote:
Players are leaving the game because it is simply too volatile even all the way up to high Grand Masters. You can literally metagame cheese/all-in your way to the top due to the inability for most races to scout in the early minutes of the game. To most casual players, this is incredibly frustrating. It doesn't help that the majority of the maps before really heavily favored this style of play.
Bad game design was eventually going to show up, and now it is. This exactly The game needs more stability, the ability for a casual player to play standard and not be rolling the dice with every action they take on whether they're gonna lose to one all-in or another any second. We don't have the top player's control to survive these things without significant prep, while the other player just memorizes their 1-2 base all-in.
I second this point that the game could be more stable. More ways to get(and pay for) solid, actionable information is a good way to help deminish the power of 1-2 base all ins. They can be stopped if you know they are comming, but the majority of those builds/styles revolve around hiding this information. It doesn't have to be full information either. Abilites to see the other player's buildings or unit placement could provide subtle, yet useful information for a seasoned player to use.
Also, better ability to retreat and control space. If players could pull back and keep their army safe, we would have few games settled by one engagment.
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Are we really discussing this? Most people are just pathetic weaklings that don't thrive on competition/improving oneself and give up quickly. They want the CoDs, LoLs, DotAs and WoW because its a lot more easy and cosy than brutal competition like in starcraft2. They're killing esports.
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On February 16 2012 03:14 kusto wrote:
Ladder is as competitive as you want it to be. It is as much at stake as you yourself put in there. You certainly can identify yourself with the silly icon some guy from Blizzard designed and therefore your pride is at stake, and whatnot.
Or you can just enjoy queued games against people with approximately your skill. If you want to be stressed out, then be. Even pro gamers off race or do silly strats just to relax from practice or have a bit fun and showcase interesting strats on stream with their main account. Nobody gives a fuck.
Wow, way to play armchair psychologist and to condescend.
On February 16 2012 03:14 kusto wrote:If you don't care about some delusional icon with points, you will have more fun. Simple as that.
For the record, I don't care about avatars. I have had the same one since season 1 and don't have any plans of changing it.
You're basically shitting on me for caring about the level of play in the matches I play, implying it's bad to do so and tacking on (what you apparently think is) a further insult in that you think I'm interested in rank and avatars. If you really think no one should care about ability or take anything seriously, then perhaps you are in the wrong place.
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On February 16 2012 03:39 enCore- wrote:
Are we really discussing this? Most people are just pathetic weaklings that don't thrive on competition/improving oneself and give up quickly. They want the CoDs, LoLs, DotAs and WoW because its a lot more easy and cosy than brutal competition like in starcraft2. They're killing esports.
I don't think that is what people are saying. If anything, people only want a more stable game or more reason to stay online. I like playing SC2, but the social features are lack luster. People would like the ability to hang out with folks that are intrested in competition/improving themselves. A more stable game woul be better as well, IMO. It reduces the ability for coin flip builds to be so effective. A lot of those styles are based on the fact that the player is unlikely to hit the same person on the ladder again.
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I think sc2 is a really heavy game to play and it requires a lot of consentration so it doesn't feel nice to for example play a couple of games and go to sleep or something. I guess this is true for the whole rts genre so i don't think it's fixable.
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Personnally i stopped to play 1v1 because of the player's manners.
Basically i encountered three kinds of people in 1v1:
1- People who, when they loose, insult you.
2- People who, when they win, insult you.
3- Lots of people who just ignore you during the game ( don't even bother to chat, i mean what's the point to play multi if you don't interact or get to communicate with the ones you're playing with Oo ).
Then i switched to only multiplayer ladder and customs minigames because, even if there are still lots of people who insult, you find way more opportunities to have a good chat since usually your teammates will communicate with you. You can have some fun with other people and you see less insults since people actually don't really care when they loose or win in multi.
I even started to play LoL and I honestly think sc2 atmosphere in 1v1 was just as bad as in this game xD
I even remember my first ladder game on sc2. I've been matched with a guy of the 3rd kind (see above). After the game i went to check if i was really against someone or if i did not make a mistake and played a game against the cpu...
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I think its pretty natural for a game's overall player number to peak in the first year or two since it is released. Remember that at least 80-90% of ladder players are 'casual' - i.e. they play occasionally for fun and may move on when they got bored or a new game comes out. Starcraft 2 was a pretty huge release in gaming as a whole so most people even slightly into online RTS would have given it a go at least, leading to large numbers of accounts set up and overall number of games. Only small percentage of these players will go on to get fully into the competitive aspect (i.e. addiction  ). Starcraft 2 is not a new thing any more so the number of new players drops off over time, while a core base of long term players remains established. However, it could very well be true that some of the features of the UI contribute to a players not feeling as inclined to keep playing for a long period, but I am unsure about that.
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To bad...sc2 will die now :O
Honestly I dont know why everyone gets so pissed off. I play 1v1 all the time and barley feel any anger ever,
hell I even played bw and I was never pissed (Im 15 btw, 14 in bw).
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On February 16 2012 04:18 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Personnally i stopped to play 1v1 because of the player's manners.
Basically i encountered three kinds of people in 1v1:
1- People who, when they loose, insult you.
2- People who, when they win, insult you.
3- Lots of people who just ignore you during the game ( don't even bother to chat, i mean what's the point to play multi if you don't interact or get to communicate with the ones you're playing with Oo ).
Then i switched to only multiplayer ladder and customs minigames because, even if there are still lots of people who insult, you find way more opportunities to have a good chat since usually your teammates will communicate with you. You can have some fun with other people and you see less insults since people actually don't really care when they loose or win in multi.
I even started to play LoL and I honestly think sc2 atmosphere in 1v1 was just as bad as in this game xD
I even remember my first ladder game on sc2. I've been matched with a guy of the 3rd kind (see above). After the game i went to check if i was really against someone or if i did not make a mistake and played a game against the cpu...
Oddly enough bm is a rarity for me. So far in 8 games this season, each game has had either a 'gl hf', 'gg' and even a 'gg wp'. As a matter of fact I even got a message from an opponent after the game and we chatted about what a good game it was and plan on doing some 2's together some time.
Don't let the bm get you down. There are plenty of good people on the ladder as well
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EPT
