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On February 14 2012 01:44 jinixxx123 wrote:
almost 1 million ppl playing is still a shitload of people playing, compare that to warcraft 3 which has it less than 5000 ...
Anyway as more of the casuals get weeded out, the game quality from each player will improve. Somebody that is diamond now would have been mid/high masters a couple seasons ago.
War 3 is nearly 10 years old now...
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I just don't see all the BM and cheese. What league are you people in? I'm in gold, played over 100 games this season, and literally, I saw BM once and the dude later apologized! I saw cheese maybe 5 or 6 times and usually it was easy to stomp it. The rest of the games are mannered with people at least trying to play pretty legit builds.
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I lose the will after getting 3 mirrors in a row then you get cheesed and then you might get one "proper" game in over an hour of play, largely pointless playing ladder, people do the most random shit or you play mirrors
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On February 14 2012 01:44 Paperplane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:42 BlindSight754 wrote:
I think its because of the BM. Its totally unwelcoming to any new player. You get BM'd if you win and BM'd if you lose. Whats worse than feeling shitty because you lost and some ass is rubbing it in your face? A lot of people who play this game have terrible personalities. You cant grow a game when people who are just starting out are thrown in the mud. In tennis does the other player yell and cuss at you when you win or lose? No, and if they do they get disciplined. LoL's players are a hundred times worse and it has a lot more players. It can't be just that.
Thats true but LoL also has an incentive for playing (i.e. improving your summoner and buying stuff from the store) Starcraft has none of that. Both WoW and LoL (two extremely popular games) have ways of improving your ingame character through playing (and you ALWAYS get rewarded no matter what) but in SC2 if you lose your "in game character" actually gets worse. Sure thats like real life somewhat but the point of a video game is to entertain and a lot of people probably dont find that entertaining.
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On February 14 2012 01:41 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:39 Gotmog wrote:On February 14 2012 00:30 joeschmo wrote:
I quit cause of Protoss I quit because ZvZ is not that interesting to play ZvP is just broken and stupid mu....always has been. Either 2base all ins (which they don't consider all ins ofc!) or deathballs which you can't beat on most maps. ZvT is awesome...if i could i would play only ZvT. However, i have to say that bunker rushes or similar gimicks that terran can do and outright win the game, while if they don't work, they just end up a bit behind or even...just kill my soul as well  Z balancewhines make me stop to play occasionally
should i remind you sad zealot club?
on topic: bnet is boring as well, nothing much besides ladder or stupidly bad custom maps system ;/
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On February 14 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:07 ProxyKnoxy wrote:I don't feel satisfied when I win  This too, the feeling of anger you get when you lose far outweighs the joy of winning. When I lose I want to filp tables, when I win it's like meh.
I feel the same. I play quakelive regularly in 1v1 and used to play WC3 and I rarely raged, even when I lost. For some reason, SC2 makes me rage more than any other game and I feel ridiculous getting so upset about it. So I play something else...
I don't know, probably has something to do with the game design ? The fact that there are a lot of coin flipping situation where you can't really scout and just hope the guy is not doing a hard counter to what you're doing ?
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I still play 1v1s, just not as much. Most of my reasons why I'm playing less have been mentioned:
1. Reached a skill cap relative to other players. I'm a casual player and never aspired to be more than that. I've been mid-high master (around 25ish) on NA every season, and am basically there now. I'm never going to improve beyond that given the amount I play, and I don't plan on playing more.
2. I'm glad other people have noticed the amount of cheese/all-ins around master level, because I have too. It has gotten old. 50-60% of my games are 1 base games, and most of them are pure cheese (cannons, very early pools, pure marine). Winning those games isn't that much more fun than losing them. I don't know why it got like this, but it has definitely increased.
3. People move on to different games. That is basic gamer community, especially on the US.
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On February 14 2012 01:46 Rassy wrote:
Never realy did like 1 vs 1,
Forgot to mention that Blizzard did themselves a horrible, horrible, horrible disservice by refusing to find a way to make team games more interesting, particularly since Warcraft III's team games were one of its greatest assets, the entire freakin' industry is moving towards team-based multiplayer (and has been for the better part of a decade), and team games always act as a way for someone to "cool down" after playing the more intense solo game types. But I guess if Blizzard had come out and said they were going to balance the game around team game types (when it can just as easily be done through a couple of core changes, and perhaps some map mechanics exclusive to team maps), a lot of people on this message board (and other message boards) would have gone on a tirade about how Blizzard was "ruining e-sports" or some crap like that.
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On February 14 2012 01:50 HardlyNever wrote:
I still play 1v1s, just not as much. Most of my reasons why I'm playing less have been mentioned:
1. Reached a skill cap relative to other players. I'm a casual player and never aspired to be more than that. I've been mid-high master (around 25ish) on NA every season, and am basically there now. I'm never going to improve beyond that given the amount I play, and I don't plan on playing more.
2. I'm glad other people have noticed the amount of cheese/all-ins around master level, because I have too. It has gotten old. 50-60% of my games are 1 base games, and most of them are pure cheese (cannons, very early pools, pure marine). Winning those games isn't that much more fun than losing them. I don't know why it got like this, but it has definitely increased.
3. People move on to different games. That is basic gamer community, especially on the US.
1v1 Masters level has very little to do with the drop in players. Its like 4% of the population who ladder.
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On February 14 2012 01:49 BlindSight754 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:44 Paperplane wrote:On February 14 2012 01:42 BlindSight754 wrote:
I think its because of the BM. Its totally unwelcoming to any new player. You get BM'd if you win and BM'd if you lose. Whats worse than feeling shitty because you lost and some ass is rubbing it in your face? A lot of people who play this game have terrible personalities. You cant grow a game when people who are just starting out are thrown in the mud. In tennis does the other player yell and cuss at you when you win or lose? No, and if they do they get disciplined. LoL's players are a hundred times worse and it has a lot more players. It can't be just that. Thats true but LoL also has an incentive for playing (i.e. improving your summoner and buying stuff from the store) Starcraft has none of that. Both WoW and LoL (two extremely popular games) have ways of improving your ingame character through playing (and you ALWAYS get rewarded no matter what) but in SC2 if you lose your "in game character" actually gets worse. Sure thats like real life somewhat but the point of a video game is to entertain and a lot of people probably dont find that entertaining.
Yeah I think that's the main reason. In LoL you still gain something flashy if you lose to distract you.
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To be honest I'm tired of the way SC2 plays out. 80% of every game I ever see is either "Scout my clever all in before its too late" or "Lets both not harrass until 200/200, and then a-move our blobs into each other" This might be fixed in later expansions, but honestly I wonder with units like the tempest and shredder and blink ultralisks.
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On February 14 2012 01:54 Paperplane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:49 BlindSight754 wrote:On February 14 2012 01:44 Paperplane wrote:On February 14 2012 01:42 BlindSight754 wrote:
I think its because of the BM. Its totally unwelcoming to any new player. You get BM'd if you win and BM'd if you lose. Whats worse than feeling shitty because you lost and some ass is rubbing it in your face? A lot of people who play this game have terrible personalities. You cant grow a game when people who are just starting out are thrown in the mud. In tennis does the other player yell and cuss at you when you win or lose? No, and if they do they get disciplined. LoL's players are a hundred times worse and it has a lot more players. It can't be just that. Thats true but LoL also has an incentive for playing (i.e. improving your summoner and buying stuff from the store) Starcraft has none of that. Both WoW and LoL (two extremely popular games) have ways of improving your ingame character through playing (and you ALWAYS get rewarded no matter what) but in SC2 if you lose your "in game character" actually gets worse. Sure thats like real life somewhat but the point of a video game is to entertain and a lot of people probably dont find that entertaining. Yeah I think that's the main reason. In LoL you still gain something flashy if you lose to distract you.
Yeah, they oughta replace the character icons with 3d avatars. How a ton of slots so you can deck them out and customize them if you rack up points which you get just by playing. Sounds ridiculous but i bet it would work.
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I love starcraft and still watch it. But for some reason I dont play it anymore. Why?
Some possible reasons:
It feels stale and non-creative. I feel like I have to do a ton of memorization in order to improve. Being builds, build timings. I never wanted to do that, and the knowledge that my skill is capped in this way is demoralizing. Im pretty creative and good strategy and control wise, but I just dont want to invest the time to learn a lot of builds and timings.
It takes great game understanding plus close analyzation of the replay to understand why you lose/win in most games.
The game is focused around getting better, but this is meaningless to me. I have no ambition towards playing starcraft on a high level. I have a job and more. I play a lot more LoL because of the casual player base and creative intuitive gameplay. Also there is the teamplay in LoL, which can be very fun.
I have no loyalty/love for blizzard after the merger with activision.
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On February 14 2012 01:55 GreYMisT wrote:
To be honest I'm tired of the way SC2 plays out. 80% of every game I ever see is either "Scout my clever all in before its too late" or "Lets both not harrass until 200/200, and then a-move our blobs into each other" This might be fixed in later expansions, but honestly I wonder with units like the tempest and shredder and blink ultralisks.
you get a good mix of this with pro games. nevertheless these things happened in sc2's predecessor.
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what a large drop in players just in the Americas between season 2 and season 5. 2/3's of the ladder is gone.
and between season 4 and season 5 europe 1v1 ladder was reduced by half.
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I don't play as much because I'm in the last semester of my degree, and I'd really rather not fail and be set back a bunch. I still really enjoy laddering, although I never seem to have quite enough time to practice as much as I'd like. I've managed to get to a point where I regularly play KR masters players, but I always feel like I need to practice more and study the game more to progress, and I just can't do that right now.
Also, it's worth mentioning that I'm tired of the endless villification of terran players, the systematic delegitamization my T wins in the eyes of the community, and the general direction the terran nerfs are going in.
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I feel like it's because of all the meta-hype. Nobody would get upset if you just won or lost and that was the end of it. However, when you lose, there's a huge sign saying "DEFEAT" and it shows how many ladder points you lost and how far your drank dropped, and how badly you lost to a player you were even favored against.
This is made worse by the fact that any person can just pop in and check your match history, league placement, etc. and then mock you for it. A little game just becomes so pressuring.
I feel like having stats invisible (or at least just shown to the player) would help more casual players so that the game becomes actually about playing the game, instead of worrying about your rankings and what people think of those rankings. Competitive players would still have the stats and whatnot, but there's really no reason for it to be available to everyone.
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I get rage too. I stopped laddering season 2, I was Diamond when it was the Masters. I play ALL the time vs friends, and vs the Green Tea AI. I also play multitasking Trainer.
Here is my 2 cents on the "problem":
You cannot be safe in SC2. Not like you could in Broodwar. You can't figure out "The opening" and be okay to midgame. I don't only mean safe as in 1 Base massing either. I don't wanna be "that guy"- but I blame Terran mechanics. Hear me out. Terran 1 base walls in. Siege tanks. You're going to get scouting up, but you also have to prepare for either the banshee play or the 3-5 rax MMM shit. What else could he also be doing? O ya, like 1-2 rax and making 2 command centers extra to float out for 3 bases. So, when you play defensive, what do you get? Way fucking behind. Way. This can also happen with Protoss or Zerg but to a lesser extent. I know Tons of Terran and Protoss lose to that Zerg "look like I'm playing Econ game but surprise Roach/Bling all in".... also for Protoss you have the Expo Cancel into 4 gate, or the Forge FE look into 4 gate.
Shit like this makes the game EXTREMELY frustrating, because it feels like no mater what you do, you're going to lose eventually to something like that. Not only eventually, but frequently. I love the game, I love watching it, playing it with friends, and the occasional ladder spree, if I'm on vacation or something.
The percentage of people who ladder out of those who follow/play the game has always been VERY small. Even in Broodwar. It's a competitive game and it's difficult. I don't care what anyone says, I think SC2 is the most difficult game out there. Your focus and preparation have to be very serious to play competently. This doesn't mean the game is doomed or anything like that. Same old sports analogy, sports fans don't play football, or basketball, or soccer, in the vast majority. If real spectator sports depended on that, none of them would succeed. (Esp American football :p)
The custom games, nexus wars, monobattles etc are the equivalent of tossing the football around with your son every other weekend for a football fan. Very casual involvement but still a good following. Very possible for sc2.
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On February 14 2012 01:47 Smackzilla wrote:
I just don't see all the BM and cheese. What league are you people in? I'm in gold, played over 100 games this season, and literally, I saw BM once and the dude later apologized! I saw cheese maybe 5 or 6 times and usually it was easy to stomp it. The rest of the games are mannered with people at least trying to play pretty legit builds.
Actually I find that a lot of BM comes in the higher up the ladder you go. People that play for many hours and get frustrated with certain strategies or whatever are usually the ones talking shit, people who go on huge losing streaks and keep hitting 'Find Match' (which I think is honorable, but some people get really depressing to talk to lol)
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EPT
