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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 05:15 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:13 -TesteR- wrote:On February 11 2012 04:48 blinkingangels wrote:On February 11 2012 04:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2012 04:39 The KY wrote:On February 11 2012 04:32 brain_ wrote:HEY GUYS I THINK WE SHOULD NERF THE TERRAN LATEGAME ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/C4PPe.png) I'd be tempted to agree, but where are these figures even from? There's no reference point on this graph it's just percentages, it's essentially useless unless we know the sample size or where the sample is even from. Someone should counter that by just making a horizontal line at 100% for TvZ and TvP with no data whatsoever. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042 if these are the providence winrates then what was that other graph? these look pretty balanced near late game, only terran has a significant advantage early game. The last dot is not 25+ minutes, it's overall. Lat dot is infact the ~39% and overall even with a significant advantage early game, the crap lategame makes the win rate lower than 50% overall. I think the last thing they should be looking at and nerfing would be terran lategame
That graph proves absolutely nothing though, I'm not sure why people keep citing it. Small sample, one of the only MLGs without a Terran finalist (or winner), so many other factors that could have contributed to it, etc.
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On February 11 2012 05:16 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:12 JustPassingBy wrote:
So, what's the explanation that mules cannot harvest more on gold minerals and snipe does psionic damage?
I mean, I understand them from a balancing point of view, but somehow I get the feeling that the starcraft universe becomes more and more abstruse from patch to patch. Well, maybe I should post some constructive solution instead of just complaining: - just decrease damage of snipe in general or up the energy cost - give calling down mules a cooldown (how long is up to discussion), that way you cannot "mass" call down mules on gold as well and it makes macroing slightly more challenging.
technically they increased the damage of snipe... to like only 2 units
45 damage
->
25 damage (+25 psionic)
so basically I guess against infestors+ht it'll do 50 damage, but against everything else it'll just do 45
...
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On February 11 2012 05:15 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:13 shizna wrote:
2 snipes to kill a baneling? i want to scream.
afaik NOTHING IN THE GAME (even during beta phase) was just straight up nerfed by almost 50%... it's so harsh.
btw ultralisks are now a gosu unit in tvz... prepare for terran's to start going pure bio in tvz as well as tvp. because tanks are awful against ultras. what are you going to do about ultra bane oO
like always, you have to micro like the god of foreplay otherwise you just lose 
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On February 11 2012 05:18 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:15 zhurai wrote:On February 11 2012 05:13 shizna wrote:
2 snipes to kill a baneling? i want to scream.
afaik NOTHING IN THE GAME (even during beta phase) was just straight up nerfed by almost 50%... it's so harsh.
btw ultralisks are now a gosu unit in tvz... prepare for terran's to start going pure bio in tvz as well as tvp. because tanks are awful against ultras. what are you going to do about ultra bane oO Marauders/marines/tanks?
Honestly I see 3/3 MMM tearing up ultras more than I do ghosts. Marauders are extremely good.
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Northern Ireland23794 Posts
On February 11 2012 05:18 KawaiiRice wrote:viking + ghost until high counts won't be able to kill bl infestor queen fast enough thanks to transfuse. Luckily barely anyone in the whole world even uses transfuses well, so it's not obvious yet. and the only possible way to kill bls fast enough is with enough vikings to 1shot (snipe will basically tickle the bls now, but I guess it helps a tiny bit?)... which means you're screwed if they tech switch because that's a crapton of vikings.. or ravens which takes too long to reach, can get fungal-owned, might not even kill that many brood lords because HSM range sucks. if anyone says emp queens and infestors ... lol you trollin because only bad zerg will let that happen 
Switch to Toss for a few games. Archon toilet is satisfying man. Other than that woeful suggestion I wish you luck.
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I actually like the MULE changes. It's obvious Blizzard wants to keep the mechanic of gold minerals in the game to create more map diversity and I agree with them.
A 33% nerf in Snipe damage seems a bit harsh especially considering Blizzard generally tends to take a more moderate approach to nerfs. This is coming from a Protoss player.
Phoenix change is pretty good. It may open up some viable for them in late game PvT now as well in dealing with Vikings.
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On February 11 2012 05:08 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:06 ReignFayth wrote:
guys you can still snipe infestors effectively just need to use vikings + ghosts now always, not only ghosts How do you do this? Infestors are camping until Vikings engage.. You are absolutely not able to snipe those in time not to get fungaled in which case its over, because ALL Vikings just die right away. And you need to engage first with Vikings, because otherwise Broodlords will go all the way, so tell me, please..
This is exactly the kind of theorycrafting I can't stand, where you've got every micro movement mapped out in your attempt to convince yourself that it's impossible.
It's not impossible it's just hard. Like using the bulky, clumsy, fragile infestors without them all dying is hard.
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Snipe change is way too drastic and becomes useless for anything that isn't a templar or an infestor. No more timing attacks or uses for things like marines, or general smaller units. Really sad to see the unit beaten down every patch to the point where it fills such a niche role while constantly shifting the meta-game through "fixes" rather than just letting it play out.
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Ok blizzard, I give up. Swiching to zerg.
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Terran still paying the reparations for their long-lost dominance due to shitty maps, not their balance.
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On February 11 2012 05:18 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:15 zhurai wrote:On February 11 2012 05:13 shizna wrote:
2 snipes to kill a baneling? i want to scream.
afaik NOTHING IN THE GAME (even during beta phase) was just straight up nerfed by almost 50%... it's so harsh.
btw ultralisks are now a gosu unit in tvz... prepare for terran's to start going pure bio in tvz as well as tvp. because tanks are awful against ultras. what are you going to do about ultra bane oO Marauders/marines/tanks?
On February 11 2012 05:13 shizna wrote:
btw ultralisks are now a gosu unit in tvz... prepare for terran's to start going pure bio in tvz as well as tvp. because tanks are awful against ultras.
pure bio means no tanks?...
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On February 11 2012 05:09 xi Tempest x wrote:
Terran players, instead of QQ-ing. Why don't you go play a friend in a custom game and start SPLITTING VIKINGS. this patch is only good for the balance of the game.
ppl already split vikings don't spout crap.Still vikings are not enough if the zerg is not stupid enough to not leave some corruptors around.And vikings are dead weight in the inevitable ultra transition.You don't seem to understand that vikings are units that counter your stuff instead of units which are able to help you finish the game.It will be the same issue as TvP.IF the terran in tvp finishes a batle with letss say some bio units and 12 vikings..he can't go finish the game cause the 12 vikings are dead weight and he can't capitalize on his win.If the Toss has the same amount of units on the ground + 2 colossus after a won fight he can insta camp the terran production facility and if not win immediately,at least he makes those leftover units Do sooo much damage for their supply that it's actually game ending.Terrans atm have no units that Force responds from the other 2 races.They only have counter tech to their power units which leads to equal battles but after that it's exploited via tech swithces.Vikings become useless to both ultra switches and chargelots.
True balance will be achieved when all 3 races can play for either strong early game or both late game.How you play your race should be dictated by you and you should be provided the tools to achieve it.
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On February 11 2012 05:18 KawaiiRice wrote:viking + ghost until high counts won't be able to kill bl infestor queen fast enough thanks to transfuse. Luckily barely anyone in the whole world even uses transfuses well, so it's not obvious yet. and the only possible way to kill bls fast enough is with enough vikings to 1shot (snipe will basically tickle the bls now, but I guess it helps a tiny bit?)... which means you're screwed if they tech switch because that's a crapton of vikings.. or ravens which takes too long to reach, can get fungal-owned, might not even kill that many brood lords because HSM range sucks. if anyone says emp queens and infestors ... lol you trollin because only bad zerg will let that happen
for what it's worth you can snipe queens though, queens are psionic
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On February 11 2012 05:06 Slomo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 04:50 Tulkas25 wrote:On February 11 2012 04:43 Slomo wrote:
I guess terrans will do a nosedive for a month or two and come back with new stuff and balance will be fine again.
Just like Zergs and Protoss did serveral times in the past. none of the zerg and protoss comebacks were products of meditation and hardcore training alone.They were all supported by buffs from blizzard.TvZ and broodlord inf composition was still bad for terrans before they started using snipe.If you negate an option or nerf it you need to open a new one.No terran loves to mass ghosts and waiti to spam R believe me.We too would like to have viable late game units that we aim to get instead of waiting to respond to your tech of choice Then Blizzard will buff Terran again. I dont see the Problem. The thing is that Terran took a nosedive some time ago after some big nerfs, but afer a month they ruled everything in GSL again desprite being nerfed all the time. I agree, that mid-level may be much harder than GSL statistics suggest. But I think its impossible for terrans.
the problem is nobody above diamond wants to play terran anymore, i myself was trying hard to improve i admit I whined about weak lategame but still was looking for answers new builds and trying to play better, now i just lost all motivation to play terran, why bother when i can just switch races and be in the same place with way less effort i know plenty of people who feel the same, just look at sc2ranks terran is slowly disappearing and this situation wont improve.
on top of that i just lost all hope in blizzard because it seems they really dont know what they are doing when it comes to balance, they just shoot blanks and hope it hits something ...
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Now they need to make the Fleet Beacon build faster so Carriers and this upgrade are actually viable? :D
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So when will the patch be coming out, next tuesday I suppose??
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On February 11 2012 05:08 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:01 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 11 2012 04:58 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 11 2012 04:56 KawaiiRice wrote:
wow you must be joking haha wtf ^_^;? how will I stop bl infestor queen now? ..... dude just do what ppl tell me to do, l2p.. raven + seeker missible is pretty good vs bl's as far as ive seen, just because u never play a certain style that doesnt mean u dont have any viable options available Not sure if trolling or not, you need 2 upgrades and wait 1min and about 2000 gas for 7-8 ravens with HSM that dont even kill broodlord.
I think hes trolling, i mean ravens are fun but coutner BL?
ROFL
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On February 11 2012 05:15 MannerMan wrote:
is psionic anything with energy?
No. Banshees are not considered psionic despite having energy. Phoenixes aren't psionic. Thors aren't psionic. Medivacs aren't psionic. Ravens aren't psionic. Overseers aren't psionic.
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No complaints here from a Toss player, I'm really looking forward to this patch.
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On February 11 2012 05:11 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 05:08 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 11 2012 05:01 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 11 2012 04:58 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 11 2012 04:56 KawaiiRice wrote:
wow you must be joking haha wtf ^_^;? how will I stop bl infestor queen now? ..... dude just do what ppl tell me to do, l2p.. raven + seeker missible is pretty good vs bl's as far as ive seen, just because u never play a certain style that doesnt mean u dont have any viable options available Not sure if trolling or not, you need 2 upgrades and wait 1min and about 2000 gas for 7-8 ravens with HSM that dont even kill broodlord. the damage of the seeker missile is "pretty good" if they don't bunch up their units.... but then again... the range of seeker missile is very very very bad
range is irrelevant vs bl's cus they cant run away, ive seen korean t's integrate ravens w/ ss while going mech and bio, i think the problem is just that koreans are ahead in the metagame atm
obviously ghosts wont work as well vs bl's in the lategame anymore and if foreign t's cant adapt themselves to new styles then glhf going mass marines vs bl's
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EPT
