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I've seen lots of people get cranky over proper use of this term on TL. I want get a general sense of why this is and how I can avoid ticking people off. I'm not sure why this is such a sticky issue, but let me lay out why I'm confused just in case.
The first competitive gaming community I was active in was Magic: The Gathering. In this community, the standard, accepted use of the word "metagame" was, essentially, the probabilistic distribution of strategies you expect to face when sitting down across from a random opponent. This makes sense to me, as these are the factors that one has to consider when choosing a deck to play, or a decision to make in a game, that have nothing to do with the actual rules.
However here on TL, I've seen the word almost always used as a verb. What's more, sometime people get warned for using the word in a manner similar to what I was used to from my previous environment. Please help me out by sharing your thoughts on whether "metagame" applies to the following scenarios:
1: You are playing on a map where Nexus First is a commonly used build for protoss, and so decide to proxy gate/rax or 6pool. You claim this is a "metagame choice".
2: You say "there is a lot of hellion use in the current KR metagame."
3: You remind your opponent that the last time you played, you mopped the floor with his noob self. As this statement is outside the rules of Starcraft 2 as a game, but is intended to give you an advantage, it is "metagaming".
Inside, find how I would answer these questions from my experience as a Magic player.
+ Show Spoiler +
1. Yes. This is a metagame choice, or "metagaming" if you prefer.
2. Yes, this is a proper use of the word metagame.
3. No, this is not a proper use of the word metagame. These are psychological tactics which, rather than being a level above understanding game mechanics, are completely unrelated.
If you disagree with my definitions, please realize that there are gaming communities where they are the common use. The starcraft community did not invent the term "metagame", so if you feel the need to correct them to the standard local usage, please do so politely.
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doesn't the word meta mean thinking ahead?? nice write up btw^^
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Your initial interpretation of the word basically matches up with mine. I wouldn't worry about it, as terms spread people misuse them and apply them to things that they shouldn't apply to, and thus the word changes. "Map control" and "all-in" are two more phrases that have been butchered beyond recognition.
I've seen multiple people refer to pressure + expand as "all in," especially if they lose to the pressure. Then we get into the paradox of the "semi all-in..."
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I can't say much more than I agree with your usage of the word and that is how I use it myself - I do however get slightly agitated when someone says something along the lines of "BRO I JUST METAGAMED UR A$$!".
On TeamLiquid particularly though, I've mainly seen people use it in proper context.
However, what you're describing may be tied to Starcraft 2, hence why you posted it in SC2 forums and not in the General forums?
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On February 03 2012 03:56 sabas123 wrote:doesn't the word meta mean thinking ahead?? nice write up btw^^
Thanks!
In greek, the word meant beyond or adjacent. In English it is commonly used to indicate abstraction from the root word, or a conceptual layer above. It can also be used to refer to a self-referential quality, such as the haiku "There is a haiku / on the west wall of macy's / how did it get there?"
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On February 03 2012 04:04 EquilasH wrote:
On TeamLiquid particularly though, I've mainly seen people use it in proper context. However this may be tied to Starcraft 2 in, hence why you posted it in SC2 forums and not in the General forums?
I posted it in SC2 because that's the game I personally play, but I guess general may have been a better place. Perhaps the usage among BW players is different?
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Someone get chill in here stat
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It's essentially anything that doesn't have to do with the game itself yet relates to its outcome.
You can meta game IRL by breaking your opponents hands in secret or by learning that they get really mad really easily so you spell out EZ with supply depots on the map and suddenly they lose focus and fuck up their micro hardcore when you go for a death push.
etc etc...
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On February 03 2012 04:08 cydial wrote:
It's essentially anything that doesn't have to do with the game itself yet relates to its outcome.
You can meta game IRL by breaking your opponents hands in secret or by learning that they get really mad really easily so you spell out EZ with supply depots on the map and suddenly they lose focus and fuck up their micro hardcore when you go for a death push.
etc etc...
This is what I was talking about. Perhaps this is technically metagaming by some definition, but I've never heard the word used that way, except as a theoretical example on TL.
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meta means outside.
Metagame can be translated as:
the game outside of the game.
everthing that have impact on the game but is not "real" part of the game.
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Yeah it's really annoying when people use "metagame" when they mean to say "mindgame". No, you didn't metagame your opponent no matter how smart you think you sound when you say that. You predicted him. Or mindgamed him.
I think to say the "probabilistic distribution of strategies" is a little too specific though. In the SC community we don't have access to probability distributions like in Magic or other cardgames where you can map out the metagame with specific percentages for each deck type, but we can still do it by feel. I don't think anyone has stats about how often 2 rax is used instead of reactor hellions in TvZ, for example, but it's obvious that reactor hellions have become a bigger part of the metagame over time. On Smogon we use probabilistic distributions within each of the different metagames played, so the latter term is clearly quite different.
If you disagree with my definitions, please realize that there are gaming communities where they are the common use. The starcraft community did not invent the term "metagame", so if you feel the need to correct them to the standard local usage, please do so politely.
I'd replace the "please do so politely" with a "don't post at all".
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Yes, I agree with your assessment of the word. Good write-up.
I disagree with the formative moment when "metagame" came to stand for these things as, in my opinion, something is meta when it is self-referential. The point when a conversation becomes about the conversation itself, it becomes "meta." But I've accepted it as having become the norm.
So the word has been twisted a bit: "Metagame" is routinely used to refer to what is current, conventional, and likely on the minds of players because of general trends. And I agree that you can't "metagame" a person for what they did the last time you faced off, you might be playing your own meta game by designing a strategy that anticipates what they did the last time. In other words, situation 3. does refer to a "meta" situation--but not one that jives with the way that "metagame" is conventionally used around TL.
I also find the verb "to metagame" a bit too awkward as, imo, it is impossible for a pro to be outside of the metagame. Even if the are doing something unconventional, they are doing this in contrast to, in subversion of, or in spite of the metagame. Everyone who knows standard play is always metagaming everyone else.
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On February 03 2012 04:12 skeldark wrote:
meta means outside.
Metagame can be translated as:
the game outside of the game.
everthing that have impact on the game but is not "real" part of the game.
Meta doesn't mean outside. You might wanna check a greek vocabulary or two before stating facts.
As someone before stated, it means beyond/after.
Inb4 Chill.
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On February 03 2012 04:07 pandaburn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:04 EquilasH wrote:
On TeamLiquid particularly though, I've mainly seen people use it in proper context. However this may be tied to Starcraft 2 in, hence why you posted it in SC2 forums and not in the General forums? I posted it in SC2 because that's the game I personally play, but I guess general may have been a better place. Perhaps the usage among BW players is different?
It seems so, as I have seen very few people use the term wrongly in the BW scene.
However, when I played LoL the majority of players would use it in any way imaginable. Sometimes people would use it in the correct context but most of time people would just say, "something something metagame" - and I'm guessing they think metgame is just a cool word, so why not use it?
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On February 03 2012 04:17 EquilasH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:07 pandaburn wrote:On February 03 2012 04:04 EquilasH wrote:
On TeamLiquid particularly though, I've mainly seen people use it in proper context. However this may be tied to Starcraft 2 in, hence why you posted it in SC2 forums and not in the General forums? I posted it in SC2 because that's the game I personally play, but I guess general may have been a better place. Perhaps the usage among BW players is different? It seems so, as I have seen very few people use the term wrongly in the BW scene. However, when I played LoL the majority of players would use it in any way imaginable. Sometimes people would use it in the correct context but most of time people would just say, "something something metagame" - and I'm guessing they think metgame is just a cool word, so why not use it?
I'm curious about what these wrong usages were. Were they something like "ChampionX is good in the solo lane metagame" (kind of an "I don't really know what you mean" moment) or "lol u just got metagamed nub u should uninstall" (this is a word I heard I could do to someone).
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always wondered too, but never asked.
i had always assumed it was like how OP stated, being 1 and 2 making the most sense for metagame.
but i think people use it in context 3 here.
will keep an eye on this topic, thanks.
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On February 03 2012 04:08 cydial wrote:
It's essentially anything that doesn't have to do with the game itself yet relates to its outcome.
You can meta game IRL by breaking your opponents hands in secret or by learning that they get really mad really easily so you spell out EZ with supply depots on the map and suddenly they lose focus and fuck up their micro hardcore when you go for a death push.
etc etc...
This is the not the colloquial understanding of the word, although perhaps technically correct.
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On February 03 2012 04:23 pandaburn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 04:17 EquilasH wrote:On February 03 2012 04:07 pandaburn wrote:On February 03 2012 04:04 EquilasH wrote:
On TeamLiquid particularly though, I've mainly seen people use it in proper context. However this may be tied to Starcraft 2 in, hence why you posted it in SC2 forums and not in the General forums? I posted it in SC2 because that's the game I personally play, but I guess general may have been a better place. Perhaps the usage among BW players is different? It seems so, as I have seen very few people use the term wrongly in the BW scene. However, when I played LoL the majority of players would use it in any way imaginable. Sometimes people would use it in the correct context but most of time people would just say, "something something metagame" - and I'm guessing they think metgame is just a cool word, so why not use it? I'm curious about what these wrong usages were. Were they something like "ChampionX is good in the solo lane metagame" (kind of an "I don't really know what you mean" moment) or "lol u just got metagamed nub u should uninstall" (this is a word I heard I could do to someone).
Yes, a lot of the "u just got metagamed" and some of the stuff like this, "omg u just abuse the akali metagame".
Edit: And when I say that the latter statement is wrong, that's because, yes a specific champion can play a big role in how the metagame is developing, but when people say it like that it's like they don't know what point they're actually trying to make - instead it seems like they're just trying to include the word "metagame" for the hell of it.
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There's times when the word metagame works but for the most part I think that when people say "metagame shift" what they actually mean is "people are getting better at this game". The metagame shifts because people learn new strategies and how defend specific attacks. That's my take on it, other people have different definitions of the word so we might just end up arguing semantics.
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Hong Kong9164 Posts
'Metagame' implicitly requires one to act outside of the rule set of a game. I propose that instead of a 'shift in the metagame' or 'metagame shift,' commentators should say 'paradigm shift.'
par·a·digm /ˈparəˌdīm/
Noun:
A typical example or pattern of something; a model.
A worldview underlying the theories and methodology of a particular scientific subject.
Example: "The Bisu build represented a paradigm shift in Brood War strategy."
or "What player X is doing right now really changes the paradigm of TvP!"
Lack of vocabulary is not a long-term excuse to go about making up words or using words incorrectly.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2010 04:27 Metagame / Chill wrote:Here are some quick rebuttals to anticipated criticism:* Metagaming can also mean the standardized strategy * - No it can't. You are misusing the word. * Metagaming has multiple meanings * - No it doesn't. The meaning is broad to cover innumerable situations, but they are all captured under the single definition. Understanding the real definition to metagame and metagaming, please understand why the following sentences are misusing the word:Show nested quote +Even straight Protoss or Terran players might have noticed that theres something slightly wrong with the Zerg design or metagame. Show nested quote +Oov was, until now, the player with greatest win percentage ever. And his active manipulations of the metagame brought an entirely new dynamic to Starcraft. Show nested quote +I'd say technically, smash is way way more difficult. The physical skills required, the metagame, is ridiculous for melee. Show nested quote +I would wait for the metagame to develop more to learn other races, because the main benefit of it is understanding how they play and need to act, which changes with the metagame. Thank you.
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EPT
