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On February 04 2012 13:47 Assirra wrote:*checks date* He won 1 out of the 3 toss matches in the last half year. I think stats from passed a half a year are kinda pointless by now since the game changes rapidly. Almost as pointless as using woefully small sample sizes to make a point.
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On February 04 2012 14:06 GDbushido wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 13:47 Assirra wrote:On February 04 2012 12:56 tdt wrote:On February 04 2012 11:42 Chunhyang wrote:On February 03 2012 01:48 IdrA wrote:On February 03 2012 01:43 Alderan wrote:
So when idrA says it, he's whining about balance.
When DRG and Nestea say it, suddenly it is fact.
/sigh funny how that works isnt it they have credibility. no he doesnt http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=29&part=games&league=standard&vs=PNestea win 90% v P. I guess in his eyes protoss is never supposed to win. But looking at his terran record of 56% his ire seems misplaced. *checks date* He won 1 out of the 3 toss matches in the last half year. I think stats from passed a half a year are kinda pointless by now since the game changes rapidly. Almost as pointless as using woefully small sample sizes to make a point. Implying nestea doesnt ladder/do customs.
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On February 04 2012 13:47 Assirra wrote:*checks date* He won 1 out of the 3 toss matches in the last half year. I think stats from passed a half a year are kinda pointless by now since the game changes rapidly.
What stats are they using then? Any stat in Nesteas world of GSL/korea says the opposite of what he says. The best Zergs hover around 80-90% vs toss, while the best protoss hover around 60%. Monthy win rates as a collective favor Zerg. Objevtivly they are FOS. If they want to talk subjective things such as 7 gate immortal pushes etc etc I am sure toss would have complaints of thier own such as mutas BL/infestor etc so it all balances out leaving us with stats.
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On February 04 2012 14:13 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 13:47 Assirra wrote:On February 04 2012 12:56 tdt wrote:On February 04 2012 11:42 Chunhyang wrote:On February 03 2012 01:48 IdrA wrote:On February 03 2012 01:43 Alderan wrote:
So when idrA says it, he's whining about balance.
When DRG and Nestea say it, suddenly it is fact.
/sigh funny how that works isnt it they have credibility. no he doesnt http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=29&part=games&league=standard&vs=PNestea win 90% v P. I guess in his eyes protoss is never supposed to win. But looking at his terran record of 56% his ire seems misplaced. *checks date* He won 1 out of the 3 toss matches in the last half year. I think stats from passed a half a year are kinda pointless by now since the game changes rapidly. What stats are they using then? Any stat in Nesteas world of GSL/korea says the opposite of what he says. The best Zergs hover around 80-90% vs toss, while the best protoss hover around 60%. Monthy win rates as a collective favor Zerg. Objevtivly they are FOS. If they want to talk subjective things such as 7 gate immortal pushes etc etc I am sure toss would have complaints of thier own such as mutas BL/infestor etc so it all balances out leaving us with stats.
Pretty much this. I could care less about cry babies sucking it up on ladder and losing to toss. It doesn't change the fact that Toss has the smallest representation in GSL... Well, toss has little representation in all tournaments. The numbers matter, not some stupid opinion. When toss starts winning, then you people can complain. When i say 'winning', actually winning games that matter (tournaments).
As of right now, Terran and Zerg are OP and Toss is still a footnote.
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On February 04 2012 14:17 Coated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 14:13 tdt wrote:On February 04 2012 13:47 Assirra wrote:On February 04 2012 12:56 tdt wrote:On February 04 2012 11:42 Chunhyang wrote:On February 03 2012 01:48 IdrA wrote:On February 03 2012 01:43 Alderan wrote:
So when idrA says it, he's whining about balance.
When DRG and Nestea say it, suddenly it is fact.
/sigh funny how that works isnt it they have credibility. no he doesnt http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=29&part=games&league=standard&vs=PNestea win 90% v P. I guess in his eyes protoss is never supposed to win. But looking at his terran record of 56% his ire seems misplaced. *checks date* He won 1 out of the 3 toss matches in the last half year. I think stats from passed a half a year are kinda pointless by now since the game changes rapidly. What stats are they using then? Any stat in Nesteas world of GSL/korea says the opposite of what he says. The best Zergs hover around 80-90% vs toss, while the best protoss hover around 60%. Monthy win rates as a collective favor Zerg. Objevtivly they are FOS. If they want to talk subjective things such as 7 gate immortal pushes etc etc I am sure toss would have complaints of thier own such as mutas BL/infestor etc so it all balances out leaving us with stats. Pretty much this. I could care less about cry babies sucking it up on ladder and losing to toss. It doesn't change the fact that Toss has the smallest representation in GSL... Well, toss has little representation in all tournaments. The numbers matter, not some stupid opinion. When toss starts winning, then you people can complain. When i say 'winning', actually winning games that matter (tournaments). As of right now, Terran and Zerg are OP and Toss is still a footnote.
Could be just the Protoss players are worse at the tippy top who knows. But it's ridculous for these tippy toppers to whine about the least represented race.
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Terran players have had the most experienced switch overs since the beginning and had an early headstart. People take this stuff too seriously. Even if the game was perfectly balanced, there isn't a way we'd know it since it is always controversial about who is the "best" player. People always improve. It'll take years to find any real balance issues that can't be overcome... and even more years since 2 new expansions will change the landscape anyway.
On a side note, zerg has had the most complainers and still complained even after the infestor buff patch. Zerg tears everywhere.
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On February 03 2012 00:34 SuperFanBoy wrote:
how come they are allowed to talk about balance and things being OP, when we can even mention anything like that here on TL.. I think it really hurts the community when you can't discuss the game without being banned :S
Because you are not qualified. Would you expect to be welcomed with open arms to teach astronomy to the best on the field?
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On February 04 2012 14:17 Coated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 14:13 tdt wrote:On February 04 2012 13:47 Assirra wrote:On February 04 2012 12:56 tdt wrote:On February 04 2012 11:42 Chunhyang wrote:On February 03 2012 01:48 IdrA wrote:On February 03 2012 01:43 Alderan wrote:
So when idrA says it, he's whining about balance.
When DRG and Nestea say it, suddenly it is fact.
/sigh funny how that works isnt it they have credibility. no he doesnt http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=29&part=games&league=standard&vs=PNestea win 90% v P. I guess in his eyes protoss is never supposed to win. But looking at his terran record of 56% his ire seems misplaced. *checks date* He won 1 out of the 3 toss matches in the last half year. I think stats from passed a half a year are kinda pointless by now since the game changes rapidly. What stats are they using then? Any stat in Nesteas world of GSL/korea says the opposite of what he says. The best Zergs hover around 80-90% vs toss, while the best protoss hover around 60%. Monthy win rates as a collective favor Zerg. Objevtivly they are FOS. If they want to talk subjective things such as 7 gate immortal pushes etc etc I am sure toss would have complaints of thier own such as mutas BL/infestor etc so it all balances out leaving us with stats. Pretty much this. I could care less about cry babies sucking it up on ladder and losing to toss. It doesn't change the fact that Toss has the smallest representation in GSL... Well, toss has little representation in all tournaments. The numbers matter, not some stupid opinion. When toss starts winning, then you people can complain. When i say 'winning', actually winning games that matter (tournaments). As of right now, Terran and Zerg are OP and Toss is still a footnote.
These "stupid opinions" are from the best players in the world.
I rather take the word of 2 of them vs 1000 random ladder people.
And really shouldn't talk about representation in the GSL since 2 seasons in a row now there are more toss then zergs after the first round in code S. Granted before toss was really under represented but currently? No, i don't think so.
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On February 04 2012 13:36 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 13:26 Brett wrote:On February 04 2012 12:17 sitromit wrote:On February 04 2012 06:04 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 04 2012 05:54 fraktoasters wrote:On February 03 2012 20:48 deadmau wrote:On February 03 2012 11:47 Brett wrote:On February 03 2012 09:14 avilo wrote:On February 03 2012 09:05 ampson wrote:
Ah, the trend of SC2:
Zerg and Toss bitch at each other for months at a time.
Terran wins all the GSLs.
It's funny. Yep, mostly because throughout SC2's history Korean Terran players have been 10x better than their Zerg/Protoss counterparts. Only in the last 2-3 months have Korean Protosses even caught up and figured out to play defensive vs T, and Zergs in general learned about the brood/corruptor/infestor 100% deathball. Not only that, there was a larger player pool of Korean Terrans/Terrans in general with the game's release. But mostly Terran still wins a lot in recent times because Terrans have 10x the skill. I agree early on in beta/a bit after release Terran was ezmode. Not so much nowadays though, it's the opposite - Terran takes a massive amount of skill + multitask + apm. Right now the game is *decently* balanced imo, but if people want to say one race has an advantage over the other two right now, it is definitely Protoss that is too strong right now, having advantages both over Z/T (just like these progamers are saying). I could elaborate for pages, but let's just say Protosses figured out they never need to attack Terran late game b4 200/200 templar+collosus+turtle mode, and in PvZ protosses figured out with their new cheap upgrade that David Kim gave them, they can have +2/+3 weapons on their 2 base blink stalker all-ins and such at around the 15-17 minute mark...which is crazy good... It's always nice to read pros when they aren't censoring themselves, like these twitter posts. In my opinion, David Kim himself is swayed way too much by progamer's that personally contact him with their balance opinions. It's not good at all for the game. What these pros are saying about FF/immortal shinanigans is completely true though - it's completely in the hands of the protoss player doing the FF's good or fucking em up - Terran/Zerg have no say in the matter, they just have to have the prerequisite 6 layered bunkers in place or autolose, and Zerg just has to pray they have enough units or that P fucks up. You've just got it all figured out now, haven't you?? Hilarious that you're still going on about that upgrade issue. Reading his reply, I can now discredit many of the balance comments he makes, it's obvious he was totally out of touch with what happened with the "upgrade buffs" which gave an extra zealot here, an extra stalker there, and did nothing to quicken the time we complete upgrades. As mentioned proven before, the upgrade changes in that patch did NOTHING to improve toss upgrades in speed, it changed 0, because by the time forges finished, we made sure we had the mins/gas to get them regardless of the cost, so it did nothing to speed them up. Sorry Avilo's "15-17 minute 2-base" argument is phony and totally off base, also in imaginary fairy tale land. The money saved from that buff was hardly anything meaningful. Not saying the guy's a bad player but unable to stand objectively and look at what really went on there. Many of the complaints I see in here are, sure the stats say this, but this is what really happened. The stats are so skewed in Zerg favor this month, but it's suddenly fine, the stats don't mean much it's not what really happened. However, last month we all heard it's closer now, and it's getting better for the Toss from Zerg. So much bias from all races at any given point in time, but this month Zergs are really despicable. How can you be on top and defend for two months in a row games going in your favor, especially when the latter month is even more retardedly skewed in your favor. fixed: DRG: [Zergs are] shameless As a Zerg I use to do a build where I got really fast +1 melee after speed by keeping my drones in the gas. You know when I made the evo chamber? When I had 25 gas because I would have 100gas by the time it finished. If the upgraded was cheaper, say 75gas, I would then start my evo chamber immediately after starting speed. So you see, by making the upgrade cheaper, I can start my evo chamber sooner so that my gas lines up with it. It's complicate I know, but cheaper upgrades can mean quicker upgrades. /rollseyes Except you're completely wrong. The cost of the first upgrade remained the same for everything but shields. Even if you're going double forge, no one gets shields first, even with the cheaper cost it's just not worth it compared to armor and attack. So no, even if you build your forge 25 gas sooner, you don't get upgrades any faster. It's the +2/+2 that had the cost changed. When do you start +2/+2? When +1 finishes! Cost has had no effect on upgrade speed, because you could start +2/+2 as soon as +1/+1 was finished pre-patch. What kind of logic is this? Cheaper upgrades means bigger army when you're moving out with those +2/+2 upgraded units. Sensible, intelligent logic? He just showed the difference in upgrade timings, WHICH IS WHAT THE PERSON HE QUOTED WAS TALKING ABOUT, to be nil to negligible. Then you come in spouting about army size differentials. How about you show us the difference in armies, and educate yourself, in spite of your own bias, in the process? Might prevent you from looking stupid in the future, too! The difference in Gas is enough for one more Stalker, when your 2/2 is done. That means your allin will come one Stalker stronger, which can make all the difference in this game.
Yes, you are correct. Blizz buffed protoss by giving us an extra stalker 14 minutes into the game. Woop de do.
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On February 04 2012 14:33 Eknoid4 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 00:34 SuperFanBoy wrote:
how come they are allowed to talk about balance and things being OP, when we can even mention anything like that here on TL.. I think it really hurts the community when you can't discuss the game without being banned :S Because you are not qualified. Would you expect to be welcomed with open arms to teach astronomy to the best on the field?
just because they are at the top now doesn't mean they should influence the balance of a game that will be here for years. A year from now, I guarantee I will have surpassed DRG's current skill level easily. The game hasn't been fully explored, and in the long run, DRG and Nestea are still "noobs" who are merely scratching the surface. Don't believe me? That's fine I'll prove you wrong in a year.
Besides, winrate charts.
http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS
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On February 04 2012 13:36 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 13:26 Brett wrote:On February 04 2012 12:17 sitromit wrote:On February 04 2012 06:04 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 04 2012 05:54 fraktoasters wrote:On February 03 2012 20:48 deadmau wrote:On February 03 2012 11:47 Brett wrote:On February 03 2012 09:14 avilo wrote:On February 03 2012 09:05 ampson wrote:
Ah, the trend of SC2:
Zerg and Toss bitch at each other for months at a time.
Terran wins all the GSLs.
It's funny. Yep, mostly because throughout SC2's history Korean Terran players have been 10x better than their Zerg/Protoss counterparts. Only in the last 2-3 months have Korean Protosses even caught up and figured out to play defensive vs T, and Zergs in general learned about the brood/corruptor/infestor 100% deathball. Not only that, there was a larger player pool of Korean Terrans/Terrans in general with the game's release. But mostly Terran still wins a lot in recent times because Terrans have 10x the skill. I agree early on in beta/a bit after release Terran was ezmode. Not so much nowadays though, it's the opposite - Terran takes a massive amount of skill + multitask + apm. Right now the game is *decently* balanced imo, but if people want to say one race has an advantage over the other two right now, it is definitely Protoss that is too strong right now, having advantages both over Z/T (just like these progamers are saying). I could elaborate for pages, but let's just say Protosses figured out they never need to attack Terran late game b4 200/200 templar+collosus+turtle mode, and in PvZ protosses figured out with their new cheap upgrade that David Kim gave them, they can have +2/+3 weapons on their 2 base blink stalker all-ins and such at around the 15-17 minute mark...which is crazy good... It's always nice to read pros when they aren't censoring themselves, like these twitter posts. In my opinion, David Kim himself is swayed way too much by progamer's that personally contact him with their balance opinions. It's not good at all for the game. What these pros are saying about FF/immortal shinanigans is completely true though - it's completely in the hands of the protoss player doing the FF's good or fucking em up - Terran/Zerg have no say in the matter, they just have to have the prerequisite 6 layered bunkers in place or autolose, and Zerg just has to pray they have enough units or that P fucks up. You've just got it all figured out now, haven't you?? Hilarious that you're still going on about that upgrade issue. Reading his reply, I can now discredit many of the balance comments he makes, it's obvious he was totally out of touch with what happened with the "upgrade buffs" which gave an extra zealot here, an extra stalker there, and did nothing to quicken the time we complete upgrades. As mentioned proven before, the upgrade changes in that patch did NOTHING to improve toss upgrades in speed, it changed 0, because by the time forges finished, we made sure we had the mins/gas to get them regardless of the cost, so it did nothing to speed them up. Sorry Avilo's "15-17 minute 2-base" argument is phony and totally off base, also in imaginary fairy tale land. The money saved from that buff was hardly anything meaningful. Not saying the guy's a bad player but unable to stand objectively and look at what really went on there. Many of the complaints I see in here are, sure the stats say this, but this is what really happened. The stats are so skewed in Zerg favor this month, but it's suddenly fine, the stats don't mean much it's not what really happened. However, last month we all heard it's closer now, and it's getting better for the Toss from Zerg. So much bias from all races at any given point in time, but this month Zergs are really despicable. How can you be on top and defend for two months in a row games going in your favor, especially when the latter month is even more retardedly skewed in your favor. fixed: DRG: [Zergs are] shameless As a Zerg I use to do a build where I got really fast +1 melee after speed by keeping my drones in the gas. You know when I made the evo chamber? When I had 25 gas because I would have 100gas by the time it finished. If the upgraded was cheaper, say 75gas, I would then start my evo chamber immediately after starting speed. So you see, by making the upgrade cheaper, I can start my evo chamber sooner so that my gas lines up with it. It's complicate I know, but cheaper upgrades can mean quicker upgrades. /rollseyes Except you're completely wrong. The cost of the first upgrade remained the same for everything but shields. Even if you're going double forge, no one gets shields first, even with the cheaper cost it's just not worth it compared to armor and attack. So no, even if you build your forge 25 gas sooner, you don't get upgrades any faster. It's the +2/+2 that had the cost changed. When do you start +2/+2? When +1 finishes! Cost has had no effect on upgrade speed, because you could start +2/+2 as soon as +1/+1 was finished pre-patch. What kind of logic is this? Cheaper upgrades means bigger army when you're moving out with those +2/+2 upgraded units. Sensible, intelligent logic? He just showed the difference in upgrade timings, WHICH IS WHAT THE PERSON HE QUOTED WAS TALKING ABOUT, to be nil to negligible. Then you come in spouting about army size differentials. How about you show us the difference in armies, and educate yourself, in spite of your own bias, in the process? Might prevent you from looking stupid in the future, too! The difference in Gas is enough for one more Stalker, when your 2/2 is done. That means your allin will come one Stalker stronger, which can make all the difference in this game.
LOL, now you're just trolling, aren't you?
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On February 04 2012 15:11 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 14:33 Eknoid4 wrote:On February 03 2012 00:34 SuperFanBoy wrote:
how come they are allowed to talk about balance and things being OP, when we can even mention anything like that here on TL.. I think it really hurts the community when you can't discuss the game without being banned :S Because you are not qualified. Would you expect to be welcomed with open arms to teach astronomy to the best on the field? just because they are at the top now doesn't mean they should influence the balance of a game that will be here for years. A year from now, I guarantee I will have surpassed DRG's current skill level easily. The game hasn't been fully explored, and in the long run, DRG and Nestea are still "noobs" who are merely scratching the surface. Don't believe me? That's fine I'll prove you wrong in a year. Besides, winrate charts. http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS
they ARE the metagame. they have the most applied understanding of the game. Plus, Korea is the only place with good coaches. So why would you trust NA masters (AKA Korean diamond) players on design philosophy vs them?
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Balance(win rates) and bad game design have no correlation. Protoss matchups are so much more dependent on build orders that the level of micro & tactical decisions allowed in sc2 can't overcome that. Lesser skilled players do better while better skilled players do worse compared to their non-toss matchups. This applies to both sides of the matchups, and creates frustration for many players. Winning doesn't seems satisfying and when you lose, you feel like nothing you do can overcome that deficit from early game. That's why it takes quite a fair bit of luck for a toss playing to advance deep if the skill level of the tournament is close.
What we players want is even if the matchup is imba, better players can still stomp weaker players consistently (bisu raping zergs all day in bw).
Pls stop mentioning nestea 90% win rates >.> His opponents are so bad. Nestea is indeed considered the best player few months back because he just doesn't drop games to weaker opponents unlike other top players even if the game is so volatile, though his opponents are usually those who only knew how to use 1 build (hi Inca).
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On February 03 2012 03:39 Micket wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:24 iNcontroL wrote:
nestea has always complained about zerg... while he was winning everything.
DRG adding his complaints to the mix is new.
IdrA complaining has always been around.. since BW when he played terran, the most winning race with the best players.
Meanwhile statistics show that Zerg wins more. History shows zerg wins more. Apparently I am dumb though cause I rely on results and history.. you know, things that happen outside of the imagination of complainers. Incontrol has always complained about Zerg too you know? As for statistics, results, history, they are all in the past. They do not reflect the current patch or metagame. All the Code S zergs are complaining about Protoss at the moment, whist they weren't 2 months ago. It is only this GSL where I myself have noticed a huge increase in skill in all Protoss players. Parting, oZ, Puzzle have all played sick good. MC is still in it. Meanwhile I watch the recent foreign online tournaments and the foreign Protosses play like garbage compared to the Koreans.
ye its a good point and i agree.
i think protoss players recently has gained a ton of skill, and figured out alot more bo's etc
if zergs are right or not is not something i want to comment on but. please realize that every single zerg player that has made a comment about zvp the last 1.5 month says they are having a hard time.
top koreans such as nestea, drg, code a qualified korean zergs in winner interviews, and our beloved foreigners like dimaga, sen and idra are whining alot more now than they usually do.
you almost have to stop and ask yourself, why are they all doing this now? much moreso than before
one theory behind the zvp balance whining could be.
toss players lose in gsl and you see them lose these games where they totally fuck up ff's or just randomly gets super surprised by mutalisk and loses a ton of units or probes. or in general we are always pointing the finger on toss and focusing on the toss play alot more than zergs.
the fact that we are focusing more on how the toss plays in zvp could be something drg was talking about. or something the top foreigner zergs are talking about. casters and players and viewers focus more on the protosses play more in general because its perhaps in the hands of protoss to play a beautiful game while zerg does it quite regulary.
so that being said, if that were true that would mean the zerg players we are seeing are doing more things right than the protoss, that they figured more out how to play than the toss, ergo arguably better.
so a toss player fucks up their ff or do a terrible mistake, they dont need to talk balance because they can see the mistakes they did.
drg or nestea however, playing and practically understanding the matchup more than any other zergs out there. plays vs a toss who just microes beautifully and gets the timings down perfect and forcefields and they loses (the zerg). then they cant see what mistakes they did in this game, because both played such a beautiful game.
im not going out here and saying its imba, or i think its imba. im just trying to give you another perspective or a point of view, so you can maybe understand more why these zergs are saying these things now and not before, or saying anything at all.
toss players have simply become alot better recently, theres not much more to it. a patch decreasing the upgrade costs for toss can only do so much, but never could it have impacted this much on both pvt and pvz, that can only mean that toss players have become much better.
we will probably only see more and more tosses in gsl from here on until a patch comes out, because they get inspired and is able to copy and mimic what the successful tosses in code S are doing, along with code A. its just natural that it goes that way.
and none of this really necessarily has to do with balance, sometimes a race just makes huge leaps in terms of skill and figuring out new builds, thats just the way it is.
lets wait and see in 2-3 months what happens, its abit too soon to have facts, right now all that consists are opinions (valid ones along with stupid whine)
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On February 04 2012 15:11 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 14:33 Eknoid4 wrote:On February 03 2012 00:34 SuperFanBoy wrote:
how come they are allowed to talk about balance and things being OP, when we can even mention anything like that here on TL.. I think it really hurts the community when you can't discuss the game without being banned :S Because you are not qualified. Would you expect to be welcomed with open arms to teach astronomy to the best on the field? just because they are at the top now doesn't mean they should influence the balance of a game that will be here for years. A year from now, I guarantee I will have surpassed DRG's current skill level easily. The game hasn't been fully explored, and in the long run, DRG and Nestea are still "noobs" who are merely scratching the surface. Don't believe me? That's fine I'll prove you wrong in a year. Besides, winrate charts. http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS
What? If I play basketball for a year I'm not going to claim I can beat Last Year's Kobe Bryant in a one on one... DRG and other top players are more than a year ahead of non pros.
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the stats are not correlating. Maybe they got sniped on ladder by LiquidHero ^^
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On February 03 2012 00:12 Jakkerr wrote:I play [Insert race], this automatically means that any other race is low skilled and freewin. Unbeatable logic 
You forgot the "this game sucks / is shit" from all the poorly performing pros.
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Why do jokey tweets always turn into a massive shitstorm on TL?
*sigh*
Take all of this with a pinch of salt. All of the players are massively biased, none of them was writing an academic report - this was on twitter.
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Two zergs are whining?
ABOUT PROTOSS?
Good lord its as if this doesnt happen all the freaking time.
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It's true tho. Toss is the strongest race atm.
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