EPTDo We Want the Game Harder? - Page 11
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dextrin303
Sweden320 Posts
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
e: Maybe something regarding unit design and control. | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
On January 24 2012 01:43 MCDayC wrote: The only question is whether SC2 has a skill cap reachable by humans. I would say that it doesn't, that, like Brood War, we will never seen humans perfectly execute a game that's not a 5 minute cheese. If the skill cap is above what is physically possible, then talk about hardness doesn't matter. At that point, game difficultly is entirely decided by competition. The reason why people say BW is so hard is because of the competition. Over a decade of mechanical and strategical development has meant that competing in BW is crushingly difficult. A perfectly executed defense would still die to a not nearly perfect cheese if the BO advantage was such. We aren't arguing if the game skill cap was reached the problem are luck based engagements and not being able to get yourself back in the lead if you made a small mistake and your overall skill is a lot bigger or simply said skill not giving a big enough benefit to overcome a BO advantage or an SMALL early mistake. I'll give an example recently in bw PvP bisu managed to destroy a greedy protoss who went an FE with delayed goon range he DESTROYED the other player next week we had the same situation between two mid level progamers and the protoss just couldn't kill the other protoss without any early game mistakes it just came to micro and maybe a better executed timing, but the goons still hadn't had range in both situations. | ||
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PHC
United States472 Posts
On January 24 2012 01:26 chenchen wrote: East Asian culture is much much more superficial than Western culture. People will literally get rejected from office non-service jobs for being uglier than the other candidates, and this is considered socially acceptable. This is why there's such a high rate of plastic surgery and make up stores on every block in places like Korea. The reason why Koreans stuck to BW for so many years is because nothing better than it ever came out. He's talking about less superficial when it comes to playing games. How is having a pretty face relevant to graphics in a fucking video game? My mind is full of fuck right now. Do I really need to TL;DR Cloud's three sentence post for some of you guys? Here it goes: TL;DR: SC2 is more popular in the west probably because of its marketing and westerners buy games that have good graphics. Some of you in this thread: "Cloud thinks we're more superficial than asians. I must respond with an ignorant ass statement that is completely irrelevant to his message." Jesus Christ please use reading comprehension. If I'm getting trolled, good job, you got me. | ||
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omgimonfire15
United States233 Posts
If blizzard makes the game harder, it may sell just as much, but the enjoyabillity factor and the time spent playing may be impacted. If a young gamer loses every game because he cannot get the mechanics down because they can't practice 4-6 hours a day and they can't get strategy down because they can't comprehend it, then he will inevitably find the game less enjoyable. Not everyone perseveres, most people actually give up after repeated attempts and multiple failures/frustrations at a game. And I personally believe the skill level of SC2 has not been reached yet, look at how much we came from the first GSL and its only been 1 year. Wait till bw pros switch over, the rest of the expansions come out, and when the game is finally at a decently balanced level. Then we can talk about whether SC2 is easy or hard. | ||
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d9mmdi
Germany179 Posts
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
On January 23 2012 20:58 Lysenko wrote: That there are GSL Code S players who win two thirds or more of their games tells me there's no skill cap that matters in SC2. agreed, i really think people underestimate the extent that sc2 can go... it took SC1/BW to get to where it is now in terms of skill, calm down! XD | ||
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klicken
Sweden206 Posts
On January 24 2012 01:41 Whitewing wrote: InCa got to the GSL finals by playing PvP's up until the finals, and he's a freaking PvP sniper. He's ridiculously good in that matchup, it's just that his PvZ is bad and his PvT isn't particularly good either. Oh, and if you watched the finals between Jjakji and Leenock, you wouldn't think he was just some dark horse who was bad. He played very, very well. So NaDa, Virus and Rain are all Protoss? Didn't know that. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 24 2012 02:02 thezanursic wrote: A perfectly executed defense would still die to a not nearly perfect cheese if the BO advantage was such. We aren't arguing if the game skill cap was reached the problem are luck based engagements and not being able to get yourself back in the lead if you made a small mistake and your overall skill is a lot bigger or simply said skill not giving a big enough benefit to overcome a BO advantage or an SMALL early mistake. I'll give an example recently in bw PvP bisu managed to destroy a greedy protoss who went an FE with delayed goon range he DESTROYED the other player next week we had the same situation between two mid level progamers and the protoss just couldn't kill the other protoss without any early game mistakes it just came to micro and maybe a better executed timing, but the goons still hadn't had range in both situations. And Losira held Zenio's (???) 8pool two times with hatch first, while a lot of progamers die time and time again in the same situation. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On January 23 2012 21:10 ampson wrote: When some random code B player beats MVP in a BO5 you can tell me that the skillcap is too low. some code B are incredible strong, code b nto means someone is bad skillcap is fine i am hardcore bw fan 10 years and i say let it as it is to have alot new blood always otherwise game dies like bw | ||
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hooktits
United States972 Posts
I would prefer that the game be harder. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
Like give carriers micro mechanics, which require some apm and are "harder" to execute, such thatt when between tow players, the one who can execute the harder mechanics will be better rewarded. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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orangesunglasses
United States110 Posts
On January 24 2012 00:27 Whitewing wrote: That was exactly my point -_-. Neither game is 'easy', they're just 'different'. no sc2 is easy compared to BW its a simple fact of math. macro in sc2 is easier so is micro. strats the same so we have a 2-0 in favor of BW | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
Micro in SC2 is alot harder than it was in BW (IMO). But micro was more rewarding in BW. You had less units on the screen at once, which meant there was less to manage overall. The units were all way slower too. No one had to split marines or dodge storms in BW. (mostly because it was impossible to dodge storms). Dragoons (for instance) had way more health and were way bigger. Play PvT in BW. the first 10 minutes of the game involve controlling less than 10 units with no forcefield. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On January 24 2012 02:17 klicken wrote: So NaDa, Virus and Rain are all Protoss? Didn't know that. Sorry, I was getting his code S run confused for something else. IIRC, his non-protoss opponents did not play well at all those games. He demolished Killer though. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 24 2012 02:24 infinity2k9 wrote: Lol at people thinking BW was only 'harder' because of UI. What about uhh you know unit design. the things you are controlling and the fact they are all completely simplistic tactically and in micro potential. That isn't UI it's just shitty. I disagree. A lot of BW units would be pure a-move units with SC2 AI, but with BW AI they/most of them aren't: dragoon, hydralisk, zealot, corsair, scout, reaver, goliath, guardian... | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 24 2012 02:27 orangesunglasses wrote: no sc2 is easy compared to BW its a simple fact of math. macro in sc2 is easier so is micro. strats the same so we have a 2-0 in favor of BW "its a simple fact of math. macro in bw is easier so is micro. strats the same so we have a 2-0 in favor of SC2" you really have to give me something better than that. You just state things as though they were facts without any argumentation. | ||
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Sky0
United States214 Posts
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