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By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach. ~Winston Churchill |
On January 19 2012 02:32 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:25 VirgilSC2 wrote:I think something important to note is that Coach Lee's statement, while not 100% accurate, is much closer to aLive's story than Fnatics. On January 19 2012 02:20 slytown wrote:
I'm losing respect for Coach Lee. Also, if Alive's contract was up in July, how does Coach Lee have a case, let alone after infiltrating his computer? If this becomes a legal issue, I'm sure Alive would win. Contract ends in July It is currently January I don't really see what you're getting at here. A contract is still a contract whether it has a week left or 10 years left. Furthermore, It's not inconceivable that aLive left his Skype open on the computer in the training room (making it essentially Coach Lee's computer he's letting aLive borrow in the eyes of the law) and Coach Lee went to shut it down and this caught his eye. I'm not saying that's what happened but from how it looks to me, Coach Lee would certainly have the upper hand in a lawsuit. Let's wait until we here aLive's side of the story from aLive himself, kk? If he's not satisfied with this interview and wants to put out his own statement, then taking this interview as gospel isn't so accurate. There's quite a bit more first-hand evidence to support Fnatic's side of the story than Coach Lee's. They seem to be the least involved party in all of this. I think it's pretty obvious that the miscommunication is primarily between aLive and Coach Lee.
I think the miscommunication is rather between aLive and fnatic, at least if we take this interview in consideration.
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On January 19 2012 01:27 Fionn wrote:
From these stories, the blame has to lie on Alive and the translator for Fnatic who went over his head trying to poach a player who was under contract for six more months. In the end, Fnatic will sign Alive, and TSL will be left with another gaping hole. Now is the time to see if Polt and Hyun will stand behind Lee or leave as well since I don't think either would have trouble at all finding a new team.
I would be interested in how much time has passed when Alive and the translator were chatting and when coach Lee ordered Alive to his office. I mean, it could be that Alive and the translator were trying to avoid coach Lee, or it could be that Alive and the translator were just late with talking to coach Lee, or it could be that coach Lee gave them no time to approach him.
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To those who talks about privacy, LOL, you can't expect privacy to be maintained when your conducting your personal activities on a computer OWNED BY THE COMPANY.
Its like your surfing porn, and your boss busted you, but you say its an infringement on your privacy anyways. Dosen't make sense.
Keep personal stuff away from your computers at work. If your personal stuff gets accessed, its no one's fault but your own.
Of course, alive lives in the team house so he only has that computer to process all his personal stuff. But TSL owns the computers, so technically, its not an infringement on rights.
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On January 19 2012 01:23 Pandemona wrote:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
SPOILER TAG MAYBE
FML t.t
If you come into a discussion about a player, then you can most likely expect mentions of his recent performances, I don't understand how you don't get this...
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On January 19 2012 02:42 poorcloud wrote:
To those who talks about privacy, LOL, you can't expect privacy to be maintained when your conducting your personal activities on a computer OWNED BY THE COMPANY.
Its like your surfing porn, and your boss busted you, but you say its an infringement on your privacy anyways. Dosen't make sense.
Keep personal stuff away from your computers at work. If your personal stuff gets accessed, its no one's fault but your own.
Of course, alive lives in the team house so he only has that computer to process all his personal stuff. But TSL owns the computers, so technically, its not an infringement on rights.
+1. Especially when you're sitting in a training house full of your team mates who sit behind/next to you. There's every chance that one of them spotted this going on. We're all speaking in hypothetical situations though.
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In b4 EG poaches alive from Fnatic. :D
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Pretty cut and dry case here. Assuming all this information is accurate.
Alive is wrong, acted wrong, did wrong.
Coach Lee responded wrong, acted wrong, did wrong.
Unfortunally, i'd say most of the fault is on Alive. He pretty much backstabbed his team and his coach. I honestly can't blame Coach Lee for being upset. However, He didn't act professionaly at all.
As far as how he got on Alives computer, this is probably a weird subject. I imagine that Alive plays in a team house correct? Don't all the computers belong to TSL team anyways. So they aren't really Alives computers, but team computers owned by TSL team. I'd imagine that the Manager of TSL has just as much right's to those computers as the players.
This was posted on Fnatic website,
"Furthermore aLive never decided to leave TSL for Fnatic he left the team house out of his own personal reasons with Coach Lee and those are not related to us, neither do we have any interest in knowing the reasons. "
Yea, Fnatic.. Shady bro... Just shady...
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On January 19 2012 02:42 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:37 Dandel Ion wrote:
Coach Lee is reading the Chatlogs of his players?
LOL
Ever heard of privacy?
No matter what alive did wrong etc, just for that I'm 100% behind him. Wouldn't want to stay with ppl that spy on me... If he left it there for all to see then it's his fault. If there's a clause in the TSL contract stating that the PC is TSL's property and it is open to inspection by the coach/manager then he's got nowhere to hide. If there's a team rule stating something similar, ditto. There are a lot of situations where the chat logs could have been obtained without Lee appearing to be a creeper. Besides, if you're using Team/Company equipment you really should be a little more careful/circumspect about what you're doing on it. I mean, discussing a potential move away from the team you're contracted to on their hardware isn't the smartest move. And siding with someone irregardless of how illegal/shady their decision making was seems to be pretty silly.
Alive lived in the teamhouse.
I don't do personal stuff at work because I can just go home and do it there. For him, it's probably a bit harder. If the contract says Lee can look at anything on the team's PCs, then I would bring my own. And question what kind of person would write that in a contract.
If he left the conversation open Lee still shouldn't read it. Because it's wrong. Like, morally. If you understand that concept...
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Calgary25987 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:41 Chill wrote:
This seems like the smallest deal in the world.
Someone wants to get out of their contract, which is fine as there is a pay-out clause.
Someone else says they will hire that person after they're contract-free. They mistakenly announce they've signed him before the contract is in place.
So the only mistake here was announcing they signed him before they had. Honestly, who cares? Alive will pay the buy-out fee and then sign with fnatic. People leave companies to join other ones all the time. They have signed offer letters before they quit their existing job.
Oh, fnatic didn't even announce they signed him? LOL then what is this thread? They casually talked to him and said they would contract him if he got out of his existing contract? Right, that's how business works.
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Calgary25987 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:46 Coated wrote:
Unfortunally, i'd say most of the fault is on Alive. He pretty much backstabbed his team and his coach. I honestly can't blame Coach Lee for being upset. However, He didn't act professionaly at all.
How did he backstab his coach? He signed a contract and chose to exercise the pay-out clause. Seems like zero fault to me.
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Personal conversation are hardly legal proof material. At least, I think it is going to be very hard for coach Lee to prove his point is he goes to court. Please tell me if I'm wrong as this conception might be biased by my knowledge of European laws. I'm not sure how things are in korea although I know quite a bit about asian culture and understand things could be drastically different.
I don't think people want to see the bad guy in Coach Lee but repeated drama like this can't be badluck. I understant he has a lot of credit from coaching in BW days but his management is questionable. After the earlier problems with Puma, trickster and FD, he changed many things to avoid those situations and still all his up and coming players leave sooner of later.
Coach lee looks like he is amazing at making young talented gamers beastly. But his team contracts, career management and PR simply awful.
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On January 19 2012 02:41 Chill wrote:
This seems like the smallest deal in the world.
Someone wants to get out of their contract, which is fine as there is a pay-out clause.
Someone else says they will hire that person after they're contract-free. They mistakenly announce they've signed him before the contract is in place.
So the only mistake here was announcing they signed him before they had. Honestly, who cares? Alive will pay the buy-out fee and then sign with fnatic. People leave companies to join other ones all the time. They have signed offer letters before they quit their existing job.
You just don't get it, Chill. This is drama and drama is what the community loves most (see Stephano Mill/Complexity deal, TSL vs EG, Naniwa probe rush, HuK debacle).
It's especially juicy when the community can wildly speculate on who did what and it's even better if there's a possibility to accuse the affected people/teams of all kinds of shit.
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On January 19 2012 02:37 Dandel Ion wrote:
Coach Lee is reading the Chatlogs of his players?
LOL
Ever heard of privacy?
No matter what alive did wrong etc, just for that I'm 100% behind him. Wouldn't want to stay with ppl that spy on me...
agreed i dont like that either
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So he has to pay like $7500 just to leave TSL? Then surely Fnatic is gonna take care of that. Wow, they must really want the guy.
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Calgary25987 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:50 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:41 Chill wrote:
This seems like the smallest deal in the world.
Someone wants to get out of their contract, which is fine as there is a pay-out clause.
Someone else says they will hire that person after they're contract-free. They mistakenly announce they've signed him before the contract is in place.
So the only mistake here was announcing they signed him before they had. Honestly, who cares? Alive will pay the buy-out fee and then sign with fnatic. People leave companies to join other ones all the time. They have signed offer letters before they quit their existing job. You just don't get it, Chill. This is drama and drama is what the community loves most (see Stephano Mill/Complexity deal, TSL vs EG, Naniwa probe rush, HuK debacle). It's especially juicy when the community can wildly speculate on who did what and it's even better if there's a possibility to accuse the affected people/teams of all kinds of shit.
Yea, I really, really don't get it. My head is exploding.
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Mr. Lee seems like a lttle bitch. aLive nor fnatic are not at fault IMO. A deal was negotiate4d, Mr. Lee could smell something was up and he went snooping around to find out what it was.
Now he's crying...... again
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On January 19 2012 01:24 pStar wrote:
Coach Lee got a skype convo off his computer.
He could get in huge trouble for that. Like, court trouble.
not if the computer belonged to TSL. When you use company-provided equipment, don't be thinking "this is my computer" because it isn't. It belongs to the company, not you. Therefore they can do as they see fit.
If it was a personal, home computer, then sure.
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On January 19 2012 02:52 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:50 karpo wrote:On January 19 2012 02:41 Chill wrote:
This seems like the smallest deal in the world.
Someone wants to get out of their contract, which is fine as there is a pay-out clause.
Someone else says they will hire that person after they're contract-free. They mistakenly announce they've signed him before the contract is in place.
So the only mistake here was announcing they signed him before they had. Honestly, who cares? Alive will pay the buy-out fee and then sign with fnatic. People leave companies to join other ones all the time. They have signed offer letters before they quit their existing job. You just don't get it, Chill. This is drama and drama is what the community loves most (see Stephano Mill/Complexity deal, TSL vs EG, Naniwa probe rush, HuK debacle). It's especially juicy when the community can wildly speculate on who did what and it's even better if there's a possibility to accuse the affected people/teams of all kinds of shit. Yea, I really, really don't get it. My head is exploding.
Ultimately it's because a bunch of people don't know how this stuff works and want it to work based off of how they "feel" it should work.
This has blown out to something way bigger then it needs to be.
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On January 19 2012 02:13 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:11 Kazeyonoma wrote:
i love how everyone here is already attacking coach lee about 'illegally recording Alive's computer"
we don't know how he obtained the skype conversation logs. maybe alive talked to another 'friend' in TSL and that player felt the need to inform coach lee, who then looked at the PC to see if it was true. Maybe another player grabbed the file and gave it to coach Lee.
the fact that everyone automatically assumes coach Lee is 'creepy weirdo' 'hacking' alive's computer is already bullshit.
How do we even know it was Alive's computer? Korean progamer houses rotate PCs based ont raining schedule, it's 100% possible, someone else, even coach lee himself, stumbled across the skype log or noticed some fishy conversations going on when they rotated computers.
HEY GUYS. COACH LEE IN NEWS, HE MUST BE BAD GUY AMIRITE? Lol i didnt accuse him of hacking but in general "well how did he get that then" it comes under "hacking" kinda. And re read your point back.... "even coach lee himself, stumbled acress the skype log or noticed some fishy conversations going on" hmm so you stumble across someones chat logs on skype xD find that hard to belive sir! Anyway like someone from france said, in Europe its illegal to check on work members emails let alone skypes/msn's
illegal in france does not make it illegal everywhere else in the world. Again - work computer - that's property of the company, not you.
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On January 19 2012 01:33 itiswhatitis wrote: Show nested quote +After that, Coach Lee said he wanted to talk to me. He had printed out my conversation with the Fnatic manager. That skype conversation was logged on my computer, and I’m curious as to how he got access to it.
This right here added to my established stance that Coach Lee is a creepy weirdo.
That is pretty much how I feel. After reading that, I cant see how anyone would want to play for him.
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EPT
