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On January 19 2012 02:05 Velocirapture wrote:
I think if 1k a month becomes a standard salary then e-sports is doomed to fail. Have any of you ever tried to make it on your own off 12k a year? You can talk all you want about tourney winnings making up some difference but the reported stats on that tell a different tale. IMO it is completely unreasonable to expect somebody to focus their entire energy on a game when not placing in the money for a weekly tournament means no food.
As of right now tournaments/teams are not providing for the greater community at all. Youtube and streaming sites on the other hand...
As is the starcraft community is less e-sports and more "lets play". A real living salary with benefits becoming the standard for excellence would change everything.
12k a year with or without a team house? If it's with the team house, then no travel, house, or food expenses? Hell yeah I'd take that if I was still an 18-21 year old. That's at least minimum wage level in the US, and the team houses look a helluva lot nicer than some of the places I've lived.
I've lived on 12k a year, and it ain't easy, but it's doable. If you're fresh out of high school doing something you love, then the money shouldn't make that much of a difference.
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must confess all these " i leave my team to look for a forigner team really make me feel that sc2 is doing realy poorly in Korea, i might be completely off but would love to get some more insight as to how the korean scene looks both in regards to sponsorships and how well the public enjoy the game to me it kinda feels like we get this glass window of everything beeing all good but with all these players leaving the team and alot of the korean teams not having strickt contracts with players ie some of the problems eg's had with recruiting players etc. taht it just isent as succsess ful in korea as we would like to think.
anyway its 2 extreamly solid players that pretty much any none korean team would benefit from having on their team :-)
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On January 16 2012 16:36 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 16:35 Seeker wrote:
Oh come on...... why would anyone in their right mind leave SlayerS!!! >:[
None the less....
GOOD LUCK GOLDEN!!!
LighT or Liquid should pick him up :D Seems like many Koreans have illusions of grandeur on how much they are worth to foreign teams and leave because of that. I hope this is not the case here and he just wants to be part of the foreign scene, but who knows.
I feel the same way, unless you're a top Korean... I don't think any teams are going to jump on these guys and fight over them.
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Dragon is a fuckin big time hacker/cheater. I don't know why Boxer even let him on Slayers. He was accused of map hacking, stream cheating, and match fixing - and didn't deny any of the three accusations. Check his liquipedia article.
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On January 18 2012 15:58 Onox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 13:04 iky43210 wrote:On January 18 2012 12:54 Luepert wrote:On January 18 2012 11:25 iky43210 wrote:On January 18 2012 10:58 Luepert wrote:On January 16 2012 16:36 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 16:35 Seeker wrote:
Oh come on...... why would anyone in their right mind leave SlayerS!!! >:[
None the less....
GOOD LUCK GOLDEN!!!
LighT or Liquid should pick him up :D Seems like many Koreans have illusions of grandeur on how much they are worth to foreign teams and leave because of that. I hope this is not the case here and he just wants to be part of the foreign scene, but who knows. Its kind of true, look at hero and puma, neither are actually top Korean pros. The ONLY reason they are popular is that they are on non Korean Teams who can afford to send them to tournaments that the actually good players aren't at. Hero have the most revolutionizing PvZ, its unfair to call him a no namer. If Hero worked in PvT alot better, he would be a force to reckon with In the GSL, Hero has a 44% win rate in PvZ. source? I don't see that number anywhere. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/222_HerOHero isn't all that great sadly, way overrated.
if your talking about the gsl win rate then you would have to filter out some of the miscellaneous cups and wcg then his win rate is actually at 60% not 44% in PvZ
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Liquid'Dragon Please... Liquid need a guy like Dragon in its team, he is Terran too so !!!
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I don't agree with people generalizing korean players of being overconfident and greedy when they move to foreign teams. Sometimes, they payoff of staying isn't worth it. I had a short chat with rainbow a while back, and while he was content with ST, he also wanted to just get outta the country and get a different scenery. A lot of koreans actually just want to experience the world out there, despite making their living playing games into the odd hours in some less than ideal living conditions.
If you love the game and plan to be the best no matter what, it's probably beneficial to stay within korean teams, but there's just so much more to life than that. But if you're not top tier and have some other ambitions in life that aren't only starcraft, what's so bad about moving to a foreign team and seeing if you can command some extra money while doing it?
I work in a technical field. I know what I'm worth, but I also know what others are getting paid. This makes my worth change fairly often (usually upwards), and if the right opportunity comes (money, type of work, etc), I will certainly explore my options. No different from your average guy looking to make the most out of a situation. Has less to do with being greedy and cocky. It's a business decision one must make in life everyday
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Dragon is so gosu lets see what his future holds.
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On January 19 2012 04:36 frozenrb wrote:
Sk'Dragon!
As Well !
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Maybe Dragon starts a dancing-career :D
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On January 19 2012 02:22 justalex wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:05 Velocirapture wrote:
I think if 1k a month becomes a standard salary then e-sports is doomed to fail. Have any of you ever tried to make it on your own off 12k a year? You can talk all you want about tourney winnings making up some difference but the reported stats on that tell a different tale. IMO it is completely unreasonable to expect somebody to focus their entire energy on a game when not placing in the money for a weekly tournament means no food.
As of right now tournaments/teams are not providing for the greater community at all. Youtube and streaming sites on the other hand...
As is the starcraft community is less e-sports and more "lets play". A real living salary with benefits becoming the standard for excellence would change everything. 12k a year with or without a team house? If it's with the team house, then no travel, house, or food expenses? Hell yeah I'd take that if I was still an 18-21 year old. That's at least minimum wage level in the US, and the team houses look a helluva lot nicer than some of the places I've lived. I've lived on 12k a year, and it ain't easy, but it's doable. If you're fresh out of high school doing something you love, then the money shouldn't make that much of a difference.
I have no idea what's a good lifeplan in the US, but at least in Europe, I rather study and work for 60K US$ starting salary, then waste my precious years between 18 and 25 playing StarCraft2 for a minimum wage.
Honestly: This timespan often decides how the rest of your life will pan out, so either you're a made man when done (like some football players) or you rather focus on getting the skills for a good job.
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On January 19 2012 05:09 testthewest wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:22 justalex wrote:
12k a year with or without a team house? If it's with the team house, then no travel, house, or food expenses? Hell yeah I'd take that if I was still an 18-21 year old. That's at least minimum wage level in the US, and the team houses look a helluva lot nicer than some of the places I've lived.
I've lived on 12k a year, and it ain't easy, but it's doable. If you're fresh out of high school doing something you love, then the money shouldn't make that much of a difference. I have no idea what's a good lifeplan in the US, but at least in Europe, I rather study and work for 60K US$ starting salary, then waste my precious years between 18 and 25 playing StarCraft2 for a minimum wage. Honestly: This timespan often decides how the rest of your life will pan out, so either you're a made man when done (like some football players) or you rather focus on getting the skills for a good job.
I don't know how it is internationally, but in the US it's not terribly difficult to go back to school later in life. Heck, I had a professor once that recommended everyone under the age of 22 to drop out of college and do something else for a while. If you're good enough to warrant any kind of salary, you're probably good enough to get at least a few tournament trips funded. I think the experience of travelling and competing is worth more than the 5 years extra it'd take to get into a career.
As for 60k starting salary, I'd be willing to bet that you'd be in teh minority. I've been out of school 5 years and that's still significantly more than my salary. Some of us leave school with a PhD in medicine, some leave with a degree in art history.
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On January 19 2012 05:59 justalex wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 05:09 testthewest wrote:On January 19 2012 02:22 justalex wrote:
12k a year with or without a team house? If it's with the team house, then no travel, house, or food expenses? Hell yeah I'd take that if I was still an 18-21 year old. That's at least minimum wage level in the US, and the team houses look a helluva lot nicer than some of the places I've lived.
I've lived on 12k a year, and it ain't easy, but it's doable. If you're fresh out of high school doing something you love, then the money shouldn't make that much of a difference. I have no idea what's a good lifeplan in the US, but at least in Europe, I rather study and work for 60K US$ starting salary, then waste my precious years between 18 and 25 playing StarCraft2 for a minimum wage. Honestly: This timespan often decides how the rest of your life will pan out, so either you're a made man when done (like some football players) or you rather focus on getting the skills for a good job. I don't know how it is internationally, but in the US it's not terribly difficult to go back to school later in life. Heck, I had a professor once that recommended everyone under the age of 22 to drop out of college and do something else for a while. If you're good enough to warrant any kind of salary, you're probably good enough to get at least a few tournament trips funded. I think the experience of travelling and competing is worth more than the 5 years extra it'd take to get into a career. As for 60k starting salary, I'd be willing to bet that you'd be in teh minority. I've been out of school 5 years and that's still significantly more than my salary. Some of us leave school with a PhD in medicine, some leave with a degree in art history.
Well it's getting off topic, and I love SC like any TL forumer, but no employer will ever see it as a bonus, if you tell him: "Well I spend my 5 years mostly practicing a video game. I made some travels, but instead of seeing much of the country, I stared into a monitor."
Just imagine telling even a mediocre golf/football/basketball professional player he is going to earn 12K a year....
He would be laughing all day for sure!
I think salaries for top players (and that would be code S players) should be around 100K - 200K US$/year to make it a worthwhile pasttime. (about the amount Wayne Rooney earns in 5days)
Right now it's a bit sad, if good players are having to fight for getting even a minimum wage. Assuming those are skilled, dedicated people, I think they are wasting their fortunes.
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On January 19 2012 06:41 testthewest wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 05:59 justalex wrote:On January 19 2012 05:09 testthewest wrote:On January 19 2012 02:22 justalex wrote:
12k a year with or without a team house? If it's with the team house, then no travel, house, or food expenses? Hell yeah I'd take that if I was still an 18-21 year old. That's at least minimum wage level in the US, and the team houses look a helluva lot nicer than some of the places I've lived.
I've lived on 12k a year, and it ain't easy, but it's doable. If you're fresh out of high school doing something you love, then the money shouldn't make that much of a difference. I have no idea what's a good lifeplan in the US, but at least in Europe, I rather study and work for 60K US$ starting salary, then waste my precious years between 18 and 25 playing StarCraft2 for a minimum wage. Honestly: This timespan often decides how the rest of your life will pan out, so either you're a made man when done (like some football players) or you rather focus on getting the skills for a good job. I don't know how it is internationally, but in the US it's not terribly difficult to go back to school later in life. Heck, I had a professor once that recommended everyone under the age of 22 to drop out of college and do something else for a while. If you're good enough to warrant any kind of salary, you're probably good enough to get at least a few tournament trips funded. I think the experience of travelling and competing is worth more than the 5 years extra it'd take to get into a career. As for 60k starting salary, I'd be willing to bet that you'd be in teh minority. I've been out of school 5 years and that's still significantly more than my salary. Some of us leave school with a PhD in medicine, some leave with a degree in art history. Well it's getting off topic, and I love SC like any TL forumer, but no employer will ever see it as a bonus, if you tell him: "Well I spend my 5 years mostly practicing a video game. I made some travels, but instead of seeing much of the country, I stared into a monitor." Just imagine telling even a mediocre golf/football/basketball professional player he is going to earn 12K a year.... He would be laughing all day for sure! I think salaries for top players (and that would be code S players) should be around 100K - 200K US$/year to make it a worthwhile pasttime. (about the amount Wayne Rooney earns in 5days) Right now it's a bit sad, if good players are having to fight for getting even a minimum wage. Assuming those are skilled, dedicated people, I think they are wasting their fortunes.
How about "I have the work ethic to commit to a job 10-16 hours a day 5-7 days per week without question or complaint. And while i was doing that, I spent every second learning how to improve and approach objectives and obstacles with the utmost scrutiny and became one of the best in the world because of that."
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On January 19 2012 02:58 paintfive wrote:
Dragon is a fuckin big time hacker/cheater. I don't know why Boxer even let him on Slayers. He was accused of map hacking, stream cheating, and match fixing - and didn't deny any of the three accusations. Check his liquipedia article.
If I were you, I'd more carefully word my posts without sounding like someone who can't read.
he then replied that "he was sorry for what he had done" but didn't go into detail which parts of the allegations were true.
For all you know, he could have ONLY cheated by viewing the stream of another.
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doesn't seem like they are leaving out of choice...
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On January 16 2012 16:39 Azzur wrote:
Many koreans think that there are riches abroad but he is a no-name korean and will be hard pressed to get any decent money. I'm sure a foreign team will pick him up but the amount they will be willing to pay will be far below what he's expecting.
No name? Both of these players are pretty well known... They maybe asking a little much for their salary and I cannot fathom why anyone would leave a team with as much notority as Slayers, but best of luck to them and their journey.
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EPT
