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On January 16 2012 20:50 Rabbitmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 20:28 mockturtle wrote:On January 16 2012 20:22 Duravi wrote:
Just curious, do you mean this like scandinavian teams do, or just that there is a lack of this compared to other US sports? university is much more attainable in scandinavian countries for everyone -- they're subsidized much more heavily by the government which means you aren't competing for an academic scholarship or in a rush to get a high paying job to pay off your student loans or anything like that. in other words, if you're scandinavian and in high school or college or recently graduated, you have a lot more financial freedom to pursue your passionate hobby without putting your future in jeopardy. i'd guess mvp's offer of covering education for DRG is significantly less of a financial commitment than sending someone to a typical american state university. edit: furthermore, what korea has which america/the west lacks is the a decade old example of having a sustainable business model, so a coach can be in a position to plan and invest for the long term. esports in the west is growing but there have been pockets of growth and failure going on for the past decade, whereas starcraft in korea spent years adapting to what worked to build the only real model of a professional sport that's ever happened in esports, and unfortunately that model isn't workable on a global scale so for international sc2 everyone is still flying blind. We acutally "get paid" for attending university in sweden. There is a sort of "student wellfare" which amounts to roughly $370/month (atleast for me at the moment). In addition to that you can take student loans ofc. Also, pretty much every single school is free to attend (there are a few exceptions to this ofc). I know that a few years ago, atleast, it was very common for gamers to registrate for university courses simply to get the wellfare each month, and then spent all their time gaming instead of studying, haha.
Partly true about the last part of your post, but actually, if you do not achive grade X in class Y, the CSN (student loan / welfare) is revoked and you need to reapply.
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On January 16 2012 20:55 Fukinkou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 20:50 Rabbitmaster wrote:On January 16 2012 20:28 mockturtle wrote:On January 16 2012 20:22 Duravi wrote:
Just curious, do you mean this like scandinavian teams do, or just that there is a lack of this compared to other US sports? university is much more attainable in scandinavian countries for everyone -- they're subsidized much more heavily by the government which means you aren't competing for an academic scholarship or in a rush to get a high paying job to pay off your student loans or anything like that. in other words, if you're scandinavian and in high school or college or recently graduated, you have a lot more financial freedom to pursue your passionate hobby without putting your future in jeopardy. i'd guess mvp's offer of covering education for DRG is significantly less of a financial commitment than sending someone to a typical american state university. edit: furthermore, what korea has which america/the west lacks is the a decade old example of having a sustainable business model, so a coach can be in a position to plan and invest for the long term. esports in the west is growing but there have been pockets of growth and failure going on for the past decade, whereas starcraft in korea spent years adapting to what worked to build the only real model of a professional sport that's ever happened in esports, and unfortunately that model isn't workable on a global scale so for international sc2 everyone is still flying blind. We acutally "get paid" for attending university in sweden. There is a sort of "student wellfare" which amounts to roughly $370/month (atleast for me at the moment). In addition to that you can take student loans ofc. Also, pretty much every single school is free to attend (there are a few exceptions to this ofc). I know that a few years ago, atleast, it was very common for gamers to registrate for university courses simply to get the wellfare each month, and then spent all their time gaming instead of studying, haha. Partly true about the last part of your post, but actually, if you do not achive grade X in class Y, the CSN (student loan / welfare) is revoked and you need to reapply.
The loan is revoked if you don't achieve, yes. But i think you can get wellfare for atleast 3 years after high school without having it revoked. Atleast you could a few years ago, it might have changed. I know that in the early 2000s CSN was a lot less strict.
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Wow. Good luck Golden and Dragon! Should be fun to see where you guys end up!
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DRAGON TO QUANTIC, CALLING IT.
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On January 16 2012 21:05 Rabbitmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 20:55 Fukinkou wrote:On January 16 2012 20:50 Rabbitmaster wrote:On January 16 2012 20:28 mockturtle wrote:On January 16 2012 20:22 Duravi wrote:
Just curious, do you mean this like scandinavian teams do, or just that there is a lack of this compared to other US sports? university is much more attainable in scandinavian countries for everyone -- they're subsidized much more heavily by the government which means you aren't competing for an academic scholarship or in a rush to get a high paying job to pay off your student loans or anything like that. in other words, if you're scandinavian and in high school or college or recently graduated, you have a lot more financial freedom to pursue your passionate hobby without putting your future in jeopardy. i'd guess mvp's offer of covering education for DRG is significantly less of a financial commitment than sending someone to a typical american state university. edit: furthermore, what korea has which america/the west lacks is the a decade old example of having a sustainable business model, so a coach can be in a position to plan and invest for the long term. esports in the west is growing but there have been pockets of growth and failure going on for the past decade, whereas starcraft in korea spent years adapting to what worked to build the only real model of a professional sport that's ever happened in esports, and unfortunately that model isn't workable on a global scale so for international sc2 everyone is still flying blind. We acutally "get paid" for attending university in sweden. There is a sort of "student wellfare" which amounts to roughly $370/month (atleast for me at the moment). In addition to that you can take student loans ofc. Also, pretty much every single school is free to attend (there are a few exceptions to this ofc). I know that a few years ago, atleast, it was very common for gamers to registrate for university courses simply to get the wellfare each month, and then spent all their time gaming instead of studying, haha. Partly true about the last part of your post, but actually, if you do not achive grade X in class Y, the CSN (student loan / welfare) is revoked and you need to reapply. The loan is revoked if you don't achieve, yes. But i think you can get wellfare for atleast 3 years after high school without having it revoked. Atleast you could a few years ago, it might have changed. I know that in the early 2000s CSN was a lot less strict.
You need to pass in 50% of the total amount of points the first term and 75% for the rest of your studies. Which roughly means you need to pass 3/4 courses per term to not loose your welfare and be forced to start repay the loan.
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On January 16 2012 16:58 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 16:51 StarMoon wrote:On January 16 2012 16:42 Xeris wrote:
I.E. I know when I was still with Fnatic, we approached Sleep, and he was asking for something in the range of $1.5k .. I know Sangho is currently looking for something along the lines of $3k .
So crazy -- its why almost all the Koreans who post about looking for foreign team, still haven't found one T_T 1.5k/3k a month? a day? what? And Kennigit's reaction, care to elaborate for those of us who are uninitiated? I think its really inappropriate to release information you learned while under the employment of a team, especially when you are still involved in the industry. It's like incontrol coming out with statements about NASL's finances, their projections, goals etc. Especially with a team, where your scouting methods are kept close to the chest, your bargaining position. Its just really bad imo.
Well why is it always so much secret about player's wages? Finally we get some knowledge about it. We never get to know how long the contract is and how much it's, zzz.
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On January 16 2012 17:19 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 16:56 Xeris wrote:On January 16 2012 16:52 Oiseaux wrote:On January 16 2012 16:42 Xeris wrote:
I.E. I know when I was still with Fnatic, we approached Sleep, and he was asking for something in the range of $1.5k .. I know Sangho is currently looking for something along the lines of $3k . Are those figures monthly? Just curious, since I know nothing of SC2 progamer salaries (and have always been a bit curious). edit: nvm, answered. Monthly (not daily, lulz :D) Those figures are NOT close to being what most pros actually make, mind you. Salary ranges are like: GOD1 -- probably an even ungodlier amount! (jk i actually have no clue, but I'm making an assumption that his personal intel sponsorship is huge) GOD2 -- ungodly amount TIER 1 players -- around 30-50k per year range (rough estimate) TIER 2 -- around 15-25k per year range High skilled but less "famous" pros (aka TIER 3) -- probably 5-10k per year range Disclaimer: I actually have no idea what the actual player salaries are. These are rough estimates based on other information I know, and could be totally wrong. The only numbers I actually know are the salary requests of people like X AND Y because I've looked into recruiting them. Wow I actually thought players made alot more then that, even tho its a rough estimate. I think I could actually sponsor a team by myself =o still tho, there's alot of t1/god2 players out there!
With all the costs involved of flying players all over the world and with the large amount of players not really being marketable representatives for their team, brand or sponsors I was thinking the opposite actually.
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On January 16 2012 19:09 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 19:06 hmunkey wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. Yeah, in the short-term. The thing is, time spent developing a career or getting an education generally pays off far more, but in the long-term. A progamer might make more than the average 18-23 year old, but if you add up the total amount earned in say 20 years, the average 18-23 year old will be leagues ahead. Of course, by average 18-23 year old, I mean the average educated person in that group. The point is being a progamer is a risk because it involves sacrificing your long-term future for a short burst of cash (which may not even come). Yeah they can go to school later in life, but let's be honest here -- no one is getting a job if they're 30, just graduated, and have no work experience. This is especially true in professional fields. Read up. Destiny cleaned carpets before this, incontrol worked in a gamestop and HD worked in McDonalds. Fruitdealer sold fruit at his parents shop. The pro Sc2 world is not full of would be Doctors, Lawyers and accountants.
Well duh, most are teenagers, how the hell do you expect them to be doctors? We are talking about the potential here. You could play sc2 for 10 years and have no education afterwards or you could study medicine, law or whatever for those 10 years.
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I think keeping salaries secret actually is worse for the players.
If everyone knows, and knows someone makes little money it is easier to know you can make a difference. Like, some rich guy that loves eSports could actually personally sponsor a player. Because to many it is not that much money.
Like that Lazarus kid, he had his own pro-gaming team, right? What if people knew it took so little money? There could be an influx on money because of that.
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About the actual salaries of players I can probably say Idra and Huk probably have the best salaries.
They both (and specially Idra) can move HUGE amounts of viewers and bring so much marketing to your brand.
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Hmmm. SangHo was probably worth 3k before he lost code S.
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On January 16 2012 20:09 DarKFoRcE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 17:26 89andy wrote:
Now the question is who is in the so called GOD1 and GOD2 tiers haha. Less than 5 people combined in those two tiers I presume? can you seriously not guess who god1 and 2 are? lol
Flash
JD & Bisu
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On January 16 2012 18:44 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 18:31 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:26 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. You're forgetting that "your standard 18-23 year old" is getting actual real-world experience in a field of his choice. 10-15 years from now they will be working as lead specialists in that field. I can't imagine anyone still playing video games for a living at 35-40 (I mean there certainly will be somebody doing so, but it will be very RARE), so those pro-gamers 10-15 years from now will be way behind. Unless of course they play it smart and be both a pro-gamer and finish education (ex. qxc). On January 16 2012 18:19 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 18:15 Zzoram wrote:On January 16 2012 18:13 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:10 rUiNati0n wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. I think many Players, though they might be grateful to be making a living doing something they love, would disagree on their situations being called great I don't know how anyone can not consider earning $20,000 a year or more from playing Starcraft to be a great situation. Because these people are screwing up their education and the opportunity cost of playing SC2 professionally is very high. These guys would almost certainly make a lot more money if they went to university and then got a normal job. When these guys finish SC2, many of them will not even have a high school diploma, and most won't have a university degree either, so it will be hard to get a good paying normal job after SC2. Every industry has a risk. Some people end up making it like HuK or Boxer, some people don't. However if people like HuK did not take said risks we would have no pros......... Yeah, difference is that in any given field (programming for examle) all you need to do is break top50% to start earning as much, if not more, than top 0.005% in gaming. Don't pretend that every pro gamer would otherwise be a Doctor, accountant, engineer etc.. I'm guessing most would either be working retail or something to do with IT. Which isn't exactly something where it matters that you get in there a few years late. I'll willing to bet that not a single pro gamer would have made more money this year than the top Sc2 players have done if they got a 'normal job' and certainly none would have made more than Mvp. Actually, with the amount and variety of skills required to break even $20k/y, I'm pretty sure they might as well be a doctor, accountant, engineer, etc. Not that hard. Difference between pro-gaming and real-life careers is that in real-life talented people earn shit-tons, but even when you're not talented and just put in decent hours into education/experience, you will be earning huge amounts. In pro-gaming it's literally all or nothing. TL;DR: 100% good salary vs 0.005% great salary.
you are in way over your head if you just said "not that hard" when it comes to being a doctor, engineer(are you either of those things? I'm guessing no).
it's one thing to talk about SC2 as a career, another thing entirely to talk about taking SC2 skills and suggesting it's equivalent towards becoming a doctor
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If stephano is a doctor does that mean bronze players could be chiropractors?
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Gonna miss these two guys on my favorite Korean team 
Best of luck to them in the future!!!
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I wish dragon the best. I was entertained for many an hour on his twitchTV stream.
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On January 16 2012 21:09 tDKyou wrote:
DRAGON TO QUANTIC, CALLING IT.
yeah i think so too! Quantic or coL? >.<
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On January 16 2012 22:21 D_K_night wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 18:44 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:31 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:26 Inori wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. You're forgetting that "your standard 18-23 year old" is getting actual real-world experience in a field of his choice. 10-15 years from now they will be working as lead specialists in that field. I can't imagine anyone still playing video games for a living at 35-40 (I mean there certainly will be somebody doing so, but it will be very RARE), so those pro-gamers 10-15 years from now will be way behind. Unless of course they play it smart and be both a pro-gamer and finish education (ex. qxc). On January 16 2012 18:19 Diamond wrote:On January 16 2012 18:15 Zzoram wrote:On January 16 2012 18:13 Seraphone wrote:On January 16 2012 18:10 rUiNati0n wrote:On January 16 2012 18:07 Seraphone wrote:
So basically professional players are doing great.
If a guy like Catz comes under Tier 3 of Xeris's guide then he's earning $5-10k a year from salary, plus free transport/accomodation at events, plus he's won $5000 and he has his stream money.
So basically he's earning a solid wage playing games all day despite being a largely unremarkable player.
The higher end guys Ret, Thorzain, TLO, Morrow etc.. are making way more money than your standard 18-23 year old makes and they get to play games all day. I think many Players, though they might be grateful to be making a living doing something they love, would disagree on their situations being called great I don't know how anyone can not consider earning $20,000 a year or more from playing Starcraft to be a great situation. Because these people are screwing up their education and the opportunity cost of playing SC2 professionally is very high. These guys would almost certainly make a lot more money if they went to university and then got a normal job. When these guys finish SC2, many of them will not even have a high school diploma, and most won't have a university degree either, so it will be hard to get a good paying normal job after SC2. Every industry has a risk. Some people end up making it like HuK or Boxer, some people don't. However if people like HuK did not take said risks we would have no pros......... Yeah, difference is that in any given field (programming for examle) all you need to do is break top50% to start earning as much, if not more, than top 0.005% in gaming. Don't pretend that every pro gamer would otherwise be a Doctor, accountant, engineer etc.. I'm guessing most would either be working retail or something to do with IT. Which isn't exactly something where it matters that you get in there a few years late. I'll willing to bet that not a single pro gamer would have made more money this year than the top Sc2 players have done if they got a 'normal job' and certainly none would have made more than Mvp. Actually, with the amount and variety of skills required to break even $20k/y, I'm pretty sure they might as well be a doctor, accountant, engineer, etc. Not that hard. Difference between pro-gaming and real-life careers is that in real-life talented people earn shit-tons, but even when you're not talented and just put in decent hours into education/experience, you will be earning huge amounts. In pro-gaming it's literally all or nothing. TL;DR: 100% good salary vs 0.005% great salary. you are in way over your head if you just said "not that hard" when it comes to being a doctor, engineer(are you either of those things? I'm guessing no). it's one thing to talk about SC2 as a career, another thing entirely to talk about taking SC2 skills and suggesting it's equivalent towards becoming a doctor
well i know dozens of people who will be enginers or doctors very soon, but wouldnt be able to hit GM level in sc2 if their life was depending on it no matter what the circumstances.
That being said, becoming a doctor is very hard because probably one does not enjoy learning as much to be able to put in 10+ hours, while it's fairly easy to commit that much time to ur favorite hobby. And it's a way longer process, one can become a progamer in 1 year if he's lucky and good enough, no matter how good and smart u are u dont become a doctor without finishing the looong medschool (and school before that)
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SlayerS_Jessica
Two players from SlayerS are going to walk their own paths now. Golden wanted to break into the foreign scene and Dragon wants to return to his main career and play Starcraft 2 as a hobby. We respect the decisions of both players and officially release them to pursue it.
The translation is a bit rough and not at all accurate on the last line. It was the closest I could get it without it sounding really weird (already sounds weird though).
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On January 16 2012 16:35 Seeker wrote:
Oh come on...... why would anyone in their right mind leave SlayerS!!! >:[
None the less....
GOOD LUCK GOLDEN!!!
LighT or Liquid should pick him up :D
yea idk why anyone would really do that... but after this move, i think korean teams are going to start having to pay their players now all the korean players are hopin on the $$$$ train and non korean teams are playing the $$$$
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What's Dragon's main career?
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EPT
