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On April 05 2014 16:42 Existor wrote:
These are SC2 quotes that Mass Recall team for unknown reason can't add, especially when there are already created voices/sounds for these SC2-quotes
You are seriously becoming a bore. How many times did you tell me to do that this week, including PMs? Five? Six? I didn't even say we were never going to do it, I said that we haven't discussed it yet and that it wasn't a high priority at the moment. I'm not going to rush it because you write it everywhere, especially not when your argument is "It breaks the immersion!". I had never read that suggestion before in three years.
I don't like writing posts like that, but please do not try to force our hand.
On April 05 2014 06:15 Blazethesage wrote:
The Retro Mod is simply for people who like the Brood War quotes over the SC2 unit quotes, above all else. It also adds classic attack noises, and a whole bunch of custom portraits and models. I like it.
Some people don't care about that much detail; the amount of that kind of detail in the normal mod is fine, it doesn't really need to go that extra mile, and while the custom models and portraits are really cool, they're admittedly far from Blizzard-quality.
Pretty much this. If the texture doesn't look as polished as the SC2 model, if the model is not as detailed and the unit has no attack sound or two different voices, then it is a net negative to the quality of the unit.
There are a number of units who had better sounds in Brood War (hydralisk, goliath...), but I'm not sure reverting the medic to her 1998 quotes would improve the experience. Remember that a lot of players didn't play Starcraft 1 or don't really remember it, we want the mod to feel familiar to them. We want them to think "hey, there are some new units!", not "wow, everything is different!".
On April 05 2014 04:57 Waise wrote:i really wish you could skip the intro cutscenes. they're very well done and impressive, and i understand you probably want people to see your work, but not being able to skip cutscenes is one of the worst and most annoying things in any game. Skipping cutscenes is more complicated than it sounds. You have to add some triggers and do a lot of testing to ensure that everything works properly. Making a cutscene skippable is always possible, but it can take a lot of time if you didn't write the triggers with that option in mind.
So far we have made the longest introductions or mid-level cutscenes skippable, we will try to expand that if we find the time.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
You are seriously becoming a bore. How many times did you tell me to do that this week, including PMs? Five? Six? I didn't even say we were never going to do it, I said that we haven't discussed it yet and that it wasn't a high priority at the moment. I'm not going to rush it because you write it everywhere, especially not when your argument is "It breaks the immersion!". I had never read that suggestion before in three years.
I don't like writing posts like that, but please do not try to force our hand.
Because your reasons are really strange. Your goal was to recreate Brood War, you did ALL the small details, missions, remaked some CGIs, did portraits, tons of time you had and core zerg voiceover is not on priority?
Maybe you forgot how many debates about Overmind vs Queen voice are on starcraft forums? There were TWO releases, tons of testing, you wanted ti bring back Brood War with all old sounds, special effects, models, building portraits, etc stuff. Yeah, I'm a player that looks first on details. And queen voice in brood war campaign is not just small bug that hard to get. It's a voice that we hear every 15-30 seconds -_-
I just don't understand why such things "are not on high priority", when those things - most irritating for BW zergs, i.e. that queen voice. I'm trying to pr your project on other forums as most qualified project on remaking Brood War, and I don't want to be mistaken.
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On April 05 2014 19:28 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +You are seriously becoming a bore. How many times did you tell me to do that this week, including PMs? Five? Six? I didn't even say we were never going to do it, I said that we haven't discussed it yet and that it wasn't a high priority at the moment. I'm not going to rush it because you write it everywhere, especially not when your argument is "It breaks the immersion!". I had never read that suggestion before in three years.
I don't like writing posts like that, but please do not try to force our hand. Because your reasons are really strange. Your goal was to recreate Brood War, you did ALL the small details, missions, remaked some CGIs, did portraits, tons of time you had and core zerg voiceover is not on priority? Maybe you forgot how many debates about Overmind vs Queen voice are on starcraft forums? There were TWO releases, tons of testing, you wanted ti bring back Brood War with all old sounds, special effects, models, building portraits, etc stuff. Yeah, I'm a player that looks first on details. And queen voice in brood war campaign is not just small bug that hard to get. It's a voice that we hear every 15-30 seconds -_- I just don't understand why such things "are not on high priority", when those things - most irritating for BW zergs, i.e. that queen voice. I'm trying to pr your project on other forums as most qualified project on remaking Brood War, and I don't want to be mistaken.
I think you'll understand that we had to deal with a million other things as well, and obviously our priority was making sure that everything works gameplay-wise.
There were things like skippable cutscenes and other small details that we intended to do for this release, but frankly we ran out of time and didn't feel like postponing the release for another month. We did almost everything we wanted. Almost.
Are there things that we overlooked? Of course there are. That's why we want feedback. I don't feel like getting into the model/sound debate again, but I will say that our goal was never to mimic Brood War in every possible way.
Maybe the occasional Queen voice breaks the Zerg campaigns for you, and many others. As for me, I hardly ever noticed it. The feedback we've received over the years and the lack of mention of the Queen voice specifically would lead me to believe that most people don't see it as a significant issue.
As I mentioned earlier, we'll do something about it, but it's hardly something that warrants a hotfix right now. Just chill, and wait.
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Existor, in all honesty, if I had to put up with your constant whine about it, I would probably postpone it as much as possible simply out of spite.
As for actual feedback, I'm not the best out there but I've found a few tiny things.
Firstly, in Ressurection IV, the briefing text rolls too quickly and it's barely readable. There are some minor spelling mistakes, I would be able to pinpoint it better if I had enough time to read, of course.
Then, both in Ressurection IV and in The Hammer Falls, Jim Raynor's flavour text still mentions his loyalty to the Sons of Korhal, which obviously does not apply anymore.
Lastly, during Protoss First Strike, why not add the beta quote from Fenix where he mentions specific wars he fought alongside the player?
I did also find a few "/param" mistakes during Zerg missions too, but many people have pointed that out already.
I'll keep on playing and report as I find more. Bear in mind that I haven't updated to the 3/4/14 version, so if you fixed some of those, ignore me.
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One thing I'll note on a minor gameplay issue: Raynor (Marine)'s damage is actually inconsistent between his two appearances in Episode 1 (I need to doublecheck him in Resurrection IV, come to think of it). In The Jacobs Installation, he has a level 3 weapon upgrade, but only does a total of 15 damage. He should be dealing 18, +1 for each upgrade.
And then, in Operation Silent Scream, he deals 18 base damage, but then if you choose infantry for the +1 upgrades, his damage remains unaltered, despite showing the upgrade.
EDIT: In addition, Duran's damage remains bugged; as far as I can tell, he does proper damage to small targets (unsure of medium), but he deals extremely low damage to large targets; instead of dealing closer to six damage, he deals only 1 - if the shot deals damage at all.
EDIT 2: When destroying the Nuke Silo's in "Assault on Korhal" in the UED campaign (mission 4), while the soundfile that plays is that of Stukov confirming that Mengsk won't be nuking you next level, the text that shows is the subtitles for what he says when destroying the Physics labs - in addition, the loading screen for the "Birds of War" mission is mislabeled as "Ground Zero". Otherwise, that mission plays out without any real issue.
EDIT 3: Patriot's Blood (Episode 5, Mission 7) currently does not show any sort of victory screen, or provide a "Continue Campaign" or "Cancel" button. Players will have to close out of the scenario, or type "quit" to re-access the Mass Recall menu.
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I get annoyed by unskippable cutscenes only when I have to watch them again while restarting/replaying the mission. And yeah, this is definetely something the guys could improve upon, but... let's face it - there are three kinds of cutscenes:
1. Opening/Into
2. Mid-mission
3. Ending/Outro
Since there's not that many mid-mission cutscenes and they are, according to Telenil, skippable, they shouldn't really be an issue. Endings on the other hand only play when you've beaten the mission, so if you don't want to watch them, you can either close SC II or go make youself a coffee or something. Besides, once you see an outro, you've beaten the mission so chances are you won't be playing the same map again very soon and you won't see the cutscene again.
Thus, I believe an average player could have an issue only with the openings, but hey - there's a solution to that too, because you can always save the game after watching the intro and if sou feel a need to restart, you can just load the game and skip it all together.
On a side note, a lot of the cutscenes are really... well, I've noticed two types of cinematics in MR - there are ones that have some action in them (your forces landing/attacking, etc.) and there are ones that just show the terrain. I really enjoy the first type, but the second is quite dull and boring. It would be lovey if MR Team would try to fill all cutscenes with some action when they get to doing another update 
On April 05 2014 18:53 Telenil wrote:
Skipping cutscenes is more complicated than it sounds. You have to add some triggers and do a lot of testing to ensure that everything works properly. Making a cutscene skippable is always possible, but it can take a lot of time if you didn't write the triggers with that option in mind.
I don't know about SC II editor, but in Warcraft III making a cutscene skippable was a pain in ass. I guess that SC II editor might be quite similar. Anyway, it W3 you had to make something like this:
Trigger 1:
CINEMATIC FUNCTION 1
WHEN PLAYER PRESSES ESC "RUN CINEMATIC SKIPPED" AND SKIP REMAINING ACTIONS
CINEMATIC FUNCTION 2
WHEN PLAYER PRESSES ESC "RUN CINEMATIC SKIPPED" AND SKIP REMAINING ACTIONS
CINEMATIC FUNCTION 3
WHEN PLAYER PRESSES ESC "RUN CINEMATIC SKIPPED" AND SKIP REMAINING ACTIONS
etc.
Trigger 2:
Starts when player presses ESC
Now, here's the major issue because you HAVE TO predict what issues might occur while stopping the cinematic at any possible moment, because you have to have the functions that will make the world look exactly the same as the one you see when you've skipped the cinematic. So, for example - you have to halt every unit's movement or actions, kill/move/remove, etc. units and objects that would be killed/moved/removed during the cinematic, remove stuff that appears only briefly (in case someone cancels the cutscene when they appear), etc. And there's more.
In W3 there were no automated cinematic mode - you had to make all the triggers yourself, step by step. When you knew how to do it from the start, it wasn't that hard to do all of that from the start, but if you've made the cutscene, especially one with a lot of different things happening, it was quite a challenge to go back and figure everything out in order to make it skippable.
I believe that SC II might have the same/similar issues in this aspect. Thus, I understand why Telenil and Jones may be reluctant to make all the cutscenes skippable - well, it's not really that difficult to do, but it's a very tedious, boring and time consuming. Just a little something from a fellow retired map maker, so that some people will get perspective.
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"Trigger 1:
CINEMATIC FUNCTION 1
WHEN PLAYER PRESSES ESC "RUN CINEMATIC SKIPPED" AND SKIP REMAINING ACTIONS
CINEMATIC FUNCTION 2
WHEN PLAYER PRESSES ESC "RUN CINEMATIC SKIPPED" AND SKIP REMAINING ACTIONS
CINEMATIC FUNCTION 3
WHEN PLAYER PRESSES ESC "RUN CINEMATIC SKIPPED" AND SKIP REMAINING ACTIONS
etc."
lol that standard low quality trigger make my eyes bleed, please go away! 
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So, I'm having a major issue with AI behavior. Episode 6, Mission 6: Fury of the Swarm. After my four outlying bases are destroyed as per usual, the first note of concern arises when, after pulling troops in those bases back to preserve them, I use them to spy on the site of my former bases, in hopes of catching the enemy's new expansions before they are properly defended.
The enemy never expands there.
This is merely the calm before the storm.
By 7 minutes in, game-time, my primary base is assaulted by a *MASSIVE* amount of ground troops via overlord drop; large numbers of zerglings and hydralisks, and several Ultralisks. An attack this large is unprecedented that early, and I see no possible way to defend against something that intense that quickly. Maybe with professional-level macro dedicated specifically to building up a defense against that attack, but it would be a close shave.
Worth noting is that I'm even playing on Easy. I shudder to imagine what might happen on higher difficulties.
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+ Show Spoiler +
In Terran 07x, my units were able to somehow through a bug get to the high ground, scout the map and kill zerg before Stukov is killed
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On April 07 2014 07:13 redbean87 wrote:lol that standard low quality trigger make my eyes bleed, please go away!
Well, aren't you nice... If you know a better way to skip cinematics in W3 editor, I'd welcome your help, but if you just want to be rude and laugh at people then I guess it's you who should go away.
I've tried looking for an easier way of making cutscenes skippable, but after reading many guides on hiveworkshop and other sites, I've given up. My last attempt of learning a different, easier way was to check out Blizzard maps and guess what - they did it the same way! Well, I guess it wasn't such a low quality trigger after all.
P.S. I've made one mistake while destribing the method I've used - the function that skips other actions has a variable and it's something like: "If "Cinematic 1 skipped" = True then skip remaining actions else do nothing" where "cinematic 1 skipped" is a variable that starts as false and is set to true when you press esc during that cinematic.
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The text for "Did you hear that?" on "Into the Darkness" reads "Param" etc.
Also, in the original I believe that there was a different floor pattern--some sort of obvious energy field--where Hallucinations could not go. Not so here, and it's confusing.
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That field was only in Chrisdaugherty's initial version of that map. There was no such field in the Starcraft 1 version.
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@Telenil, Jones
In the 3rd UED mission, Ruins of Tarsonis, zerg are supposed to go passive after destruction of each hive.
At least the brown zerg on the lower right do not.
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So, is there a way to fix "The Mod Data Loaded does not Match the mod data which was originally used to play this game"
It's really annoying, on hard at least to get most of the way through a level, then mess up once in several hours and have to start over because there is no way to load a save game. I should add, everything worked fine until episode 4 mission 1. That level refused to load saved games. I tested a few other levels in episode 4, and was able to save/load them properly. However, once I completed mission 1, none of the levels are allowing save game loads. I also tried loading levels directly through the editor, this still results in the same problem.
The voiceover/text "My children, you must put aside your fears and misgivings to accomplish what must be done. For the time being, Kerrigan will assist you in your endeavors. Though she has been your enemy, it is enough that we share the same agenda now. Allow her time enough to prove herself to you, and you may find her to be a valued ally. For now, you must focus on the task at hand. Search for the Uraj on the planet Braxis, and let nothing stop you from recovering it." Is missing from the briefing of Episode 4 Mission 4.
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On April 08 2014 20:25 7ty7 wrote:
@Telenil, Jones
In the 3rd UED mission, Ruins of Tarsonis, zerg are supposed to go passive after destruction of each hive.
At least the brown zerg on the lower right do not.
While true that they don't go passive to the point of not responding to getting attacked, the AI for that base/player does cease activity, and their units begin wandering like critters.
The fact that they still react to attacks is a very intentional change on their part, as just sitting there while they get killed struck them as very odd.
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In the mission "Shadow Hunters," all the text in the mission intro says "Param/Value/" etc.
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Great work guys, but please, can someone explain me strategy on normal difficulty in invasion of aiur mission? AI attacks just too intense, I think it bit too much for a normal difficulty, ok I can build defence for my base and I even can destroy one or two nexuses, but AI attacks as if nothing happened, and I run out of resources, and if I try to build another base for resources i get it instantly wiped out by protoss , come on
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Just use 2-3 sunken colonies + 2 spore colonies near your initial mineral line, get 3-4 lurkers in front of them, so they can hit reavers before they get in range of your defenses. Seems to work pretty well even on hard. 8-12 lings + 8 hydras can take and hold the minerals to the east, again place a few defenses with lurkers there as soon as possible, then build up mutalisks. Once you have 12+ you can start hitting the nearest Protoss base, and once it is taken put up a line of sunken/spore colonies backed by lurkers and your mutalisks. This should give you more than enough minerals/gas to max out pop on mutalisks and get upgrades at which point you can easily take out the whole map.
Relying on only sunken/spore colonies against the protoss is never a good idea, as a handful of zealots/dragoons can take then out, or reavers can out range them. The reason I go with lurkers is because you can place them ahead of your defenses and with thier AoE any unit that enters the kill zone will not last long enough to do much damage to your buildings, they can also take out reavers before they get in range to attack the colonies.
For Protoss, since shield batteries have autocast, placing 3-4 batteries with a few cannons and 4+ archons near a base entrance was more than enough to stop any attack on hard.
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Thank you, I was simply trying to solve it without BW tech, but it seems that's too hard on normal
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I didn't end up using Lurkers, myself. It takes more units/resources, but I just focused on masses of hydralisks backed up by groups of Zerglings, and eventually ultralisks. The reavers definitely take their toll, but the Zerg are all about throwing as many bodies at it as you can. Also, once you set up a base in teal's location in the center, ground attacks at your main base pretty much stop, so you can relocate any non-building ground defenses there, though Orange will still send the occasional air-attack, so be ready to fend off a few scouts, an Arbiter, and maybe even a Carrier back home. When you've got yourself well-established, don't be afraid to send off drones to random resource outcrops in other locations to try to set up extra expansions. In addition to the one north of teal, there's also one to his east, north of the cliff yellow sits beneath that largely goes ignored.
In general, if you throw enough hydralisks and zerglings at it, and make sure to focus your attention on priority targets (like Reavers, High Templar, and Archons), you can generally clear the entire map before you send a drone for the objective; Orange can be intimidating, but he's far from invincible. He has a reaver or two and a High Templar guarding both ramps to his base, but if you can take those out, the rest is standard fare.
Reavers do a boatload of splash damage, but they also attack really slowly, so you can generally minimize the damage by focus-firing them as soon as you find them. Don't be afraid to throw buckets of Zerglings into the blender; so long as they're keeping the big damage away from your mass of Hydralisks, they're doing their job, especially against Reavers.
The big thing here is to remember the Zerg's biggest strength: numbers. Grab every resource outcrop you can get your hands on, and lump ALL your hatcheries into a single control group so you can pump out as many units as your income will allow. Don't hesitate to send your army count into the hundreds; that's when you know you're really doing it right. Don't forget to set rally points, too; that way when the six hatcheries' worth of larvae all hatch (or however many hatcheries you have), they won't all sit around at the Hatchery, they'll all immediately start streaming toward the front lines.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XuHhuOx.jpg)
