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On January 13 2012 01:27 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 01:12 momonami5 wrote:
look like Carn was wasting there resources and got dropped, no results , and quite frankely never heard any of this guy doing well in anything not even online tournaments. Also manager of pro house said carn wasting time playing Dota lol dunno why people saying esahara is bad , what unprofessional is getting paid to be a pro gamer and then playing Dota on team house. ever heard something of tyler or incontrol? they even stream it sometimes lol Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 01:25 krisss wrote:On January 12 2012 22:13 mTw|NarutO wrote:
It does not matter what he does sacrifice. His passion does not matter in terms of being a progamer. If he thinks so low of himself or just very high of others and that makes him not even try, he's just not progamer material.
Its not about not falling, its about rising again. GL to cArn, I don't understand his decision. you can be happy, mTw is not like eSahara. They were obviously just looking for something to get him out of the team. lol wtf naruto has a full time job and his situation is not even close to being similar carn just never had ANY results whatsoever so thats a good reason to kick him out of the team by itself as i posted earlier: even maddelisk has had more top 3 finishes (eventhough it was only online female cups but at leas SOMETHING)
they have free time to do what they want, but the manager said carn playing dota all day lol not even training that diff from playing some dota on your free time.
pretty simple concept here
work 8-5 and play dota during that time, get fired
8-5 play dota and stream after your training time. perfectly fine.
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cArn has been in korea for so long without results, he had this coming and honestly should quit sc2 or just play casually. Imo hes wasting his precious time...
I also watched a lot of cArn
Pour le France!
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I guess it would have been better for the team to release a standard PR statement instead of giving the actual reason (from their point of view) to his release. But I don't know, I like having actual information and in this case I think that it's justified: Carn has absolutely no results, has not shown sign of progress in 7month and now doesn't think he is even good enough to play in the qualifiers?
I have nothing against him, I liked his blogs but at one point a team is running a business, if your player doesn't give you any reason to think that you're going to have a return on investment, you should not keep the player in your team.
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On January 13 2012 00:28 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 00:12 Lysanias wrote:On January 13 2012 00:02 Talin wrote:On January 12 2012 23:57 Lysanias wrote:On January 12 2012 23:55 Talin wrote:On January 12 2012 23:51 Lysanias wrote:On January 12 2012 23:48 Talin wrote:On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote:
but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him. They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about. When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more. It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background. Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract. I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand. Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication. Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on. It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests. eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments. I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light. I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either. I don't recall reading anywhere that eSahara stated that cArn didn't practice enough rather that he didn't attend the qualifiers.As for your diplomatic stance and bringing up irrelevant past/blind hate. Where? They're a business who wants to try and make money through esports, their PR sucks and they deserve to be shelled for it. Any repputable organization that releases a player includes his or her statement thats 1 strike. After cArn bringing to light that they supported him with next to 0 for nearly 5 monthes is 2, and the fact that they are some fly by night orgazation is pushing strike 3. They signed 2 decent beta Koreans and sent 2 players to Korea. Thats the only "irrelevant past" hence the fly by night. I'm with cArn on this one, and I would be lieing to say that I'm indifferent toward future endeavors of eSahara.
On January 12 2012 20:49 RetoX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote:
Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating. He's not eSahara related, and cArn didn't practice past few month, we can't keep a player not showing any dedication. MaddeLisk trains very hard with Naama, Jimpo, Naugrim, Satiini, Check... and is really involved into eSahara's team life. And she's in the talented line up whereas cArn was considered as pro. I personally have a lot of respect for cArn, i consider him as a friend, but he didn't show anything good since he's in eSahara. Dopani (RS manager/proS manager) told that cArn wasn't practincing and playing DotA. Based on his ladder rank, cArn is not training that hard for now.
Right here on page 2. People don't read threads.
I'm posting that statement again since so many people are telling eSahara should justify their position. Seems like they did, a bit.
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Honestly? He made a choice that reflected his position as a gamer.
eSahara made a mistake imho. Isn't respecting your players something a team should do? If he felt his skills weren't up to par then he felt he would make a bad showing for the team in general which is something that I am sure any other team would respect as they do not want to look bad.
This desicion by eSahara is bullshit.
Good luck cArn
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On January 12 2012 20:37 Eee wrote:
Lol so now he doesn't have any practice environment again?
I think he's still at the ProS house.
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They shouldn't have cited lack of motivation, but kept it at lack of results and nothing else. I don't blame them for getting rid of a player who did not accomplish anything, but they should not bash him.
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cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh.
If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO.
U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
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Wtf is up with eSahara. When you cut a player, you just cut a player. You wish them the best of luck and that's it. Employers should not go spouting off about their employees on a forum. It's just so unprofessional, you don't see most of the other large teams doing anything like that.
Also, I think this is relevant
+ Show Spoiler +
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eSahara is making themselves look like more of a joke every day it seems.
gl to cArn.
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I think cArn should just take a step back from SC2 and just play it as a hobby. After over a year w/o much skill progression or results, he should try doing something else for a career.
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This is hilarious how people react to eSahara's statement. When an organisation makes empty statement about something people complain about the lack of transparency, want to know more etc...
eSahara explains why they realease cArn, and then get blamed for their transparency. How absurd.
eSahara did some mistakes lately, but in an other way :
They gave to cArn the possibility to train.
They give to naama and deathangel a chance to play in Korea.
They are getting a good lineup.
To me they are doing a good job overall.
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i don't get why people are defending him if he's been in korea for almost 2 years with 0 results... the only reason i even know his name is because people talk about how he lives there and has NO results
why would a team keep that
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If I didn't feel like show up for work or was incompetant/bad at work I'd face disciplinary action. Why should E-Sports be different?
Is Carn representing ESahara's sponsors by not playing at tournaments and posting literally no results at all? I don't mean winning GSL's or even qualifying for Code A but you need to be winning or playing in tournaments somewhere. Even guys like Tyler and Incontrol who take so much abuse from the community have been seeded into MLG Pool Play they've been active in playing tournaments and making content for the community. Carn has to my knowledge tried to qualify for GSL a load of times and played in a handful of online tournaments at most (with no results) in a year of playing Sc2. There's no return on investment in that.
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On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote:
cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh.
If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO.
U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
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On January 13 2012 02:54 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote:
cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh.
If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO.
U still have to make a living at the end of the day... This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
Jinro can beat top players while carn cannot.
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On January 13 2012 00:28 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 00:12 Lysanias wrote:On January 13 2012 00:02 Talin wrote:On January 12 2012 23:57 Lysanias wrote:On January 12 2012 23:55 Talin wrote:On January 12 2012 23:51 Lysanias wrote:On January 12 2012 23:48 Talin wrote:On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote:
but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him. They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about. When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more. It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background. Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract. I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand. Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication. Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on. It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests. eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments. I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light. I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either. I don't recall reading anywhere that eSahara stated that cArn didn't practice enough rather that he didn't attend the qualifiers. As for your diplomatic stance and bringing up irrelevant past/blind hate. Where? They're a business who wants to try and make money through esports, their PR sucks and they deserve to be shelled for it. Any repputable organization that releases a player includes his or her statement thats 1 strike. After cArn bringing to light that they supported him with next to 0 for nearly 5 monthes is 2, and the fact that they are some fly by night orgazation is pushing strike 3. They signed 2 decent beta Koreans and sent 2 players to Korea. Thats the only "irrelevant past" hence the fly by night. I'm with cArn on this one, and I would be lieing to say that I'm indifferent toward future endeavors of eSahara.
E-Sports is about marketing not winning. You don't need to win tournaments to be of value to your team you need to get your name out there. The more people who know who you are the more you're worth to a team. Now obviously winning tournaments is a massive help but a guy like Naama is a well known player in the scene. He's not going to win a major LAN but most fans of Sc2 (not the kind who watch Husky and only know Idra and Huk) know who Naama is, so they know ESahara so maybe they visit ESahara website, check out their sponsors etc.. Naama does not need to win a GSL for ESahara to get a return on their investment with him.
MVP is the best player in the world, everyone agrees on this. But is he worth more to a team than Idra? Purely in marketing terms probably not. A guy like Losira is also a better player than Idra but he's definitely not worth more.
So when Carn sits in a house in Korea not playing in any tournaments, making content or qualifying for GSL how much do you think he is worth to his team? Very little indeed.
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It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
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EPT
