|
United States15275 Posts
On January 17 2012 10:01 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 17 2012 09:54 IntoTheheart wrote:On January 17 2012 09:51 ZerguufOu wrote:
Why do you think foreigners deserve any Code S spots in the first place? To raise the skill level of foreigners, I don't get why you want SC2 to become BW in terms of global skill where Koreans stomp everyone. WHY would you want this? LOL its not GOM's job to raise the skill of the foreigners. no one is entitled to anything. If you want to compete, you practice hard, get good and show results when it counts.
The fact is that GOM is providing entertaining SC2, that's sort of their goal, with their current director trying to advance eSports. One of the ways to do this is to close the gap between foreign and Koreans which plagued BW.[/QUOTE]
GOM cannot close the gap merely by putting players against each other in matches. Skill levels are achieved through months and months of hard work and insight. Your argument is nonsensical. [/QUOTE]
Really? Bringing players over here so that they have time to adjust and practice makes perfect sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't mean that the players will automatically become better. Flash and Jaedong dominated when they were playing on mediocre teams; they were not successful because their teammates were good. Playing with Slayers Terrans will not magically make Idra better when he still has the same mental blocks he had 3-4 years ago.
|
Know how MVP got such good TvZ? He practices against DongRaeGu when he has a TvZ match coming up. He practices against the best ZvT player in the whole world, that's how he gets so good. I don't get how people think this is the same as practicing against NA GMs. If you want to get the highest quality practice in, you go to Korea and play against the best players.
|
On January 17 2012 10:00 TanKLoveR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:54 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:52 TanKLoveR wrote:On January 17 2012 09:50 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:48 setzer wrote:On January 17 2012 09:43 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:41 TanKLoveR wrote:On January 17 2012 09:36 Quotidian wrote:On January 17 2012 09:32 Choboo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:30 Quotidian wrote:
...so yeah, GSL needs to reconsider their foreigner invites policy. Idra is so far from being on par with Code S and he'll probably drop out of Code A without much fanfare there either. I guess we're back to that period of time just before Huk won his second MLG. Foreigners just can't compete. Some foreigners can still compete but unfortunately they probe rushed a game and now GSL is mad at them so they won't get a code S seed they need to stop giving code S seeds to foreigners regardless of the whole Naniwa thing. It undermines the entire tournament that they give out these charity seeds, and it makes foreigners looks bad by simple association to these horrible, one-sided matches. Foreigners that want to compete in the GSL should qualify, just like Koreans. And the same goes for Koreans wanting to play in MLG Finally someone with rational thoughts. I stopped watching GSL because of this crap, it cheapens the competition that they just hand out invites to CODE S, which is supposed to be the more "Prestigious SC2 League" but that just makes it a joke. If they just hand them out to the "popular" players then i see it pretty possible any team can just buy a spot for their Ace player at this point. Yeah remember that time MC, MMA, MVP, Nestea, etc. were all bumped out of the GSL at the same time because literally all 32 code S spots were taken up by foreigners? Why do you think foreigners deserve any Code S spots in the first place? To raise the skill level of foreigners, I don't get why you want SC2 to become BW in terms of global skill where Koreans stomp everyone. WHY would you want this? Giving spots to foreigners just based on their popularity wont do anyone any favors, they should earn them just like every other player in Code S. Besides Stephano does just fine without being in Code S, why must idra fanboys whine so much? Aside from IPL 3 Stephano hasn't posted great results against Koreans. Also how the fuck do you think Huk got so good? He got seeded and practiced with the best players in the world and now he's one of them. It's not going to work for everyone that gets seeded, but it is going to happen sometimes. Huk did so "fucking" well because he was in korea for a god damn year practicing like crazy in the oGs house, not because anyone seeded him to code S. You must have forgotten but Huk got into code S because of code A!, not because Gomtv wanted "LOL MOAR FOREIGNERS IN CODE S". It wont work for MOST people who get seeded this cheap way, so fucking earn it is not very hard is it? Koreans do it and thats who they want to compete with.
It was also easier for HuK to stay in code s once he was there because of the system GOM used. I don't think he we ever consistently on par with the koreans.
|
On January 17 2012 09:55 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:52 TanKLoveR wrote:On January 17 2012 09:50 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:48 setzer wrote:On January 17 2012 09:43 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:41 TanKLoveR wrote:On January 17 2012 09:36 Quotidian wrote:On January 17 2012 09:32 Choboo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:30 Quotidian wrote:
...so yeah, GSL needs to reconsider their foreigner invites policy. Idra is so far from being on par with Code S and he'll probably drop out of Code A without much fanfare there either. I guess we're back to that period of time just before Huk won his second MLG. Foreigners just can't compete. Some foreigners can still compete but unfortunately they probe rushed a game and now GSL is mad at them so they won't get a code S seed they need to stop giving code S seeds to foreigners regardless of the whole Naniwa thing. It undermines the entire tournament that they give out these charity seeds, and it makes foreigners looks bad by simple association to these horrible, one-sided matches. Foreigners that want to compete in the GSL should qualify, just like Koreans. And the same goes for Koreans wanting to play in MLG Finally someone with rational thoughts. I stopped watching GSL because of this crap, it cheapens the competition that they just hand out invites to CODE S, which is supposed to be the more "Prestigious SC2 League" but that just makes it a joke. If they just hand them out to the "popular" players then i see it pretty possible any team can just buy a spot for their Ace player at this point. Yeah remember that time MC, MMA, MVP, Nestea, etc. were all bumped out of the GSL at the same time because literally all 32 code S spots were taken up by foreigners? Why do you think foreigners deserve any Code S spots in the first place? To raise the skill level of foreigners, I don't get why you want SC2 to become BW in terms of global skill where Koreans stomp everyone. WHY would you want this? Giving spots to foreigners just based on their popularity wont do anyone any favors, they should earn them just like every other player in Code S. Besides Stephano does just fine without being in Code S, why must idra fanboys whine so much? please stop generalizing people who are fans of idra, its getting kinda old. I know some fanboys are loud but most of us just enjoys his play. (Maybe not today LOL)
What is to enjoy? how he still does the same muta/ling/bane from a year ago without a single variation to his build? Yea thats a ton of fun T_T. I was a fan of his months ago i will admit to that, but fuck his rage quitting crap and refusing to change his style as the game evolves. If Nestea was like this he wouldn't have won a single game, same with Stephano he doesnt play like idra and hes doing beautifully.
|
On January 17 2012 10:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Doesn't mean that the players will automatically become better. Flash and Jaedong dominated when they were playing on mediocre teams; they were not successful because their teammates were good.
No, it doesn't, the purpose isn't to make every foreigner who comes over into a superstar. Getting just one or two is a huge success.
|
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 10:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 10:01 IntoTheheart wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 09:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 09:54 IntoTheheart wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 09:51 ZerguufOu wrote:
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] Why do you think foreigners deserve any Code S spots in the first place?[/QUOTE]
To raise the skill level of foreigners, I don't get why you want SC2 to become BW in terms of global skill where Koreans stomp everyone. WHY would you want this?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] LOL its not GOM's job to raise the skill of the foreigners. no one is entitled to anything. If you want to compete, you practice hard, get good and show results when it counts.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] The fact is that GOM is providing entertaining SC2, that's sort of their goal, with their current director trying to advance eSports. One of the ways to do this is to close the gap between foreign and Koreans which plagued BW.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] GOM cannot close the gap merely by putting players against each other in matches. Skill levels are achieved through months and months of hard work and insight. Your argument is nonsensical. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] Really? Bringing players over here so that they have time to adjust and practice makes perfect sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't mean that the players will automatically become better. Flash and Jaedong dominated when they were playing on mediocre teams; they were not successful because their teammates were good. [/QUOTE]
My bad. My assumption was that the foreigners would naturally practice and train hard in Korea. Still obviously true for some, but maybe I expressed that wrongly.
|
On January 17 2012 09:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:54 IntoTheheart wrote:On January 17 2012 09:51 ZerguufOu wrote:
Why do you think foreigners deserve any Code S spots in the first place? To raise the skill level of foreigners, I don't get why you want SC2 to become BW in terms of global skill where Koreans stomp everyone. WHY would you want this?
LOL its not GOM's job to raise the skill of the foreigners. no one is entitled to anything. If you want to compete, you practice hard, get good and show results when it counts.[/QUOTE]
The fact is that GOM is providing entertaining SC2, that's sort of their goal, with their current director trying to advance eSports. One of the ways to do this is to close the gap between foreign and Koreans which plagued BW.[/QUOTE]
GOM cannot close the gap merely by putting players against each other in matches. Skill levels are achieved through months and months of hard work and insight. Your argument is nonsensical. [/QUOTE]
you can "advance" esports by putting on great shows by great players. Since when does advancing esports require affirmative action? Im from the states and i'll happily watch all koreans play as long as they are the best. It's embarrassing to see undeserving players get placed into the best tournaments and getting knocked out instantly. If anything, it shows lower quality, one-sided matches, and is hurting esports.
|
On January 17 2012 10:01 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:58 Quotidian wrote:On January 17 2012 09:56 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:51 ZerguufOu wrote:
LOL its not GOM's job to raise the skill of the foreigners. no one is entitled to anything. If you want to compete, you practice hard, get good and show results when it counts. Oh wow practice hard you figured it out! Better let all the foreign pros you figured out why they're not doing well, they're just not practicing! Wow! You're a genius! lets market this great idea for a million dollars! Hey Idra did you know? If you practiced you might win more! Too bad he spends all his time off at amusement parks or watching movies, he should be practicing!!! are you trolling? Here's a question: How many top GSL pros play in NA? How many can you hit on the NA ladder without latency? How many times have you seen low latency games of MVP in NA on ladder? The answer is probably close to many posters IQs! Maybe foreigners do so poorly because they have the mindset of the average TL poster -- thinking all they need to do to win GSL caliber tournaments is by grinding out ladder games on the NA server. Which, ironically, is probably the worst conceivable way to practice and in many cases gigantic waste of time.
Yes. See how Liquid`Ret is practicing on the NA server with like a 90% winrate and mostly trash opponents on bad maps. I imagine it actually makes you a worse player to practice on it, if you're one of the top pros.
Also, can't you people get quotes right? Makes the posts so impossible to read. Like, don't quote some post if that one is already with broken tags, or at least fix them before cluttering the page even more.
|
you cannot dam this river. ;-)
|
On January 17 2012 09:32 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:30 IntoTheheart wrote:On January 17 2012 09:29 Gheed wrote:
I thought idra was supposed to have really good ZvT. Oh well MLG vs. Bomber. It was domination. But yeah, TaeJa just crushed IdrA. Hardly domination. 2-1 and all 3 games were close.
As well, Bomber had already started his decline into the big slump he's in. He wasn't anywhere near the relative level he was at a few months earlier.
|
On January 17 2012 10:03 FlyingDike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 10:00 TanKLoveR wrote:On January 17 2012 09:54 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:52 TanKLoveR wrote:On January 17 2012 09:50 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:48 setzer wrote:On January 17 2012 09:43 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:41 TanKLoveR wrote:On January 17 2012 09:36 Quotidian wrote:On January 17 2012 09:32 Choboo wrote:
[quote]
Some foreigners can still compete but unfortunately they probe rushed a game and now GSL is mad at them so they won't get a code S seed they need to stop giving code S seeds to foreigners regardless of the whole Naniwa thing. It undermines the entire tournament that they give out these charity seeds, and it makes foreigners looks bad by simple association to these horrible, one-sided matches. Foreigners that want to compete in the GSL should qualify, just like Koreans. And the same goes for Koreans wanting to play in MLG Finally someone with rational thoughts. I stopped watching GSL because of this crap, it cheapens the competition that they just hand out invites to CODE S, which is supposed to be the more "Prestigious SC2 League" but that just makes it a joke. If they just hand them out to the "popular" players then i see it pretty possible any team can just buy a spot for their Ace player at this point. Yeah remember that time MC, MMA, MVP, Nestea, etc. were all bumped out of the GSL at the same time because literally all 32 code S spots were taken up by foreigners? Why do you think foreigners deserve any Code S spots in the first place? To raise the skill level of foreigners, I don't get why you want SC2 to become BW in terms of global skill where Koreans stomp everyone. WHY would you want this? Giving spots to foreigners just based on their popularity wont do anyone any favors, they should earn them just like every other player in Code S. Besides Stephano does just fine without being in Code S, why must idra fanboys whine so much? Aside from IPL 3 Stephano hasn't posted great results against Koreans. Also how the fuck do you think Huk got so good? He got seeded and practiced with the best players in the world and now he's one of them. It's not going to work for everyone that gets seeded, but it is going to happen sometimes. Huk did so "fucking" well because he was in korea for a god damn year practicing like crazy in the oGs house, not because anyone seeded him to code S. You must have forgotten but Huk got into code S because of code A!, not because Gomtv wanted "LOL MOAR FOREIGNERS IN CODE S". It wont work for MOST people who get seeded this cheap way, so fucking earn it is not very hard is it? Koreans do it and thats who they want to compete with. It was also easier for HuK to stay in code s once he was there because of the system GOM used. I don't think he we ever consistently on par with the koreans.
Yes i will admit that is true, the old format was a lot easier for players to just sit there safely even if they lost. But Huk did stay in the first GSL after they change the format placing top 8, he just recently got demoted as he should. The point is that he earned his way playing through code a 1 or 2 times and eventually getting code S spot, not by a hand out seed.
|
On January 17 2012 10:01 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:58 Quotidian wrote:On January 17 2012 09:56 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:51 ZerguufOu wrote:
LOL its not GOM's job to raise the skill of the foreigners. no one is entitled to anything. If you want to compete, you practice hard, get good and show results when it counts. Oh wow practice hard you figured it out! Better let all the foreign pros you figured out why they're not doing well, they're just not practicing! Wow! You're a genius! lets market this great idea for a million dollars! Hey Idra did you know? If you practiced you might win more! Too bad he spends all his time off at amusement parks or watching movies, he should be practicing!!! are you trolling? Here's a question: How many top GSL pros play in NA? How many can you hit on the NA ladder without latency? How many times have you seen low latency games of MVP in NA on ladder? The answer is probably close to many posters IQs! Maybe foreigners do so poorly because they have the mindset of the average TL poster -- thinking all they need to do to win GSL caliber tournaments is by grinding out ladder games on the NA server. Which, ironically, is probably the worst conceivable way to practice and in many cases gigantic waste of time.
What's your point? What does GSL pros playing on NA have to do with anything? Why can't foreigner players raise their level on their own? If the problem is that foreigners don't practice the correct way, how does that make their seeding into GSL any more fair and valid? Is it supposed to be a real competitive tournament, or are we supposed to be ok with GSL "fixing" their tournament and lowering the level of a number of matches, just so they can get a bump in viewership?
|
On January 17 2012 10:05 ZerguufOu wrote:
Since when does advancing esports require affirmative action?
How many foreign players are on pro BW teams right now? What is your plan for closing the skill gap in SC2?
Grinding ladder practice in the AM server is a stupid idea and will never close the gap.
|
It's sad Idra actually thought he had top 5 ZvT. He's bad and deserves more beatings.
|
On January 17 2012 10:07 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 10:01 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:58 Quotidian wrote:On January 17 2012 09:56 fourColo wrote:On January 17 2012 09:51 ZerguufOu wrote:
LOL its not GOM's job to raise the skill of the foreigners. no one is entitled to anything. If you want to compete, you practice hard, get good and show results when it counts. Oh wow practice hard you figured it out! Better let all the foreign pros you figured out why they're not doing well, they're just not practicing! Wow! You're a genius! lets market this great idea for a million dollars! Hey Idra did you know? If you practiced you might win more! Too bad he spends all his time off at amusement parks or watching movies, he should be practicing!!! are you trolling? Here's a question: How many top GSL pros play in NA? How many can you hit on the NA ladder without latency? How many times have you seen low latency games of MVP in NA on ladder? The answer is probably close to many posters IQs! Maybe foreigners do so poorly because they have the mindset of the average TL poster -- thinking all they need to do to win GSL caliber tournaments is by grinding out ladder games on the NA server. Which, ironically, is probably the worst conceivable way to practice and in many cases gigantic waste of time. What's your point? What does GSL pros playing on NA have to do with anything? Why can't foreigner players raise their level on their own? If the problem is that foreigners don't practice the correct way, how does that make their seeding into GSL any more fair and valid? Is it supposed to be a real competitive tournament, or are we supposed to be ok with GSL "fixing" their tournament and lowering the level of a number of matches, just so they can get a bump in viewership?
Do you seriously have no understanding of why there's a skill gap to begin with??????? How is this possible people are so uninformed?
|
On January 17 2012 10:07 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 10:05 ZerguufOu wrote:
Since when does advancing esports require affirmative action? How many foreign players are on pro BW teams right now? What is your plan for closing the skill gap in SC2? Grinding ladder practice in the AM server is a stupid idea and will never close the gap.
Exactly! That gap is what GOM wants to close. Or at least it'll be a byproduct of whatever they're planning.
|
I read in the chat that the games were 5 weeks old, is this true? I think Idra's mentality in the games was complete crap.
He was obsessed with playing the same end game style over and over where it just wasn't working and simply gave up when it failed... They weren't even very good games to be honest. Not saying I can do better ofc, but Idra just seemed like he wasn't adapting at all... which is typical of him.
|
On January 17 2012 10:08 FlyingDike wrote:
It's sad Idra actually thought he had top 5 ZvT. He's bad and deserves more beatings.
Don't be too hard on the guy. One bad series doesn't mean that he "deserves more beatings."
|
On January 17 2012 10:08 FlyingDike wrote:
It's sad Idra actually thought he had top 5 ZvT. He's bad and deserves more beatings.
uhm. I think you need a pause from this website really. Saying IdrA is bad by losing to a very good terran player is just plain stupid. Take a pause and cool off ur anger mate.
Whining in a thread because the one you rooted for lost is not helping at all... alrighty?
|
United States15275 Posts
On January 17 2012 10:04 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 10:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Doesn't mean that the players will automatically become better. Flash and Jaedong dominated when they were playing on mediocre teams; they were not successful because their teammates were good. No, it doesn't, the purpose isn't to make every foreigner who comes over into a superstar. Getting just one or two is a huge success.
So the purpose to make the GSL more popular by inviting foreigners to participate? Thank you, I already knew that.
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 10:04 IntoTheheart wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 10:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 10:01 IntoTheheart wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 09:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 09:54 IntoTheheart wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 17 2012 09:51 ZerguufOu wrote:
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] Why do you think foreigners deserve any Code S spots in the first place?[/QUOTE]
To raise the skill level of foreigners, I don't get why you want SC2 to become BW in terms of global skill where Koreans stomp everyone. WHY would you want this?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] LOL its not GOM's job to raise the skill of the foreigners. no one is entitled to anything. If you want to compete, you practice hard, get good and show results when it counts.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] The fact is that GOM is providing entertaining SC2, that's sort of their goal, with their current director trying to advance eSports. One of the ways to do this is to close the gap between foreign and Koreans which plagued BW.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] GOM cannot close the gap merely by putting players against each other in matches. Skill levels are achieved through months and months of hard work and insight. Your argument is nonsensical. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] Really? Bringing players over here so that they have time to adjust and practice makes perfect sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't mean that the players will automatically become better. Flash and Jaedong dominated when they were playing on mediocre teams; they were not successful because their teammates were good. [/QUOTE]
My bad. My assumption was that the foreigners would naturally practice and train hard in Korea. Still obviously true for some, but maybe I expressed that wrongly.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. The general trend among the Korean players is to practice extensively, but some of them know how to do it better than others. Those are the players who are generally dominant in the scene and that boils down to individual approaches.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
