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people need to stop speculating and stop interpreting the story to fit their bias.
all this ignorant opinions and comments are out of hand.
i'm specifically talking about stuff like "gom is racist, naniwa didn't write his apology, naniwa is banned, gom is liar, etc."
on topic:
to me it seems the idea to give out the seeds came before they planned for blizzcup. it would have been another gsl season for december but that wasn't the case. correct me if i'm wrong, when was blizz cup announced and how does that fit in with mlg-gsl code s seed transfer?
misunderstanding and mismanagement from all sides but there's no need to talk shit and start calling people liars and point fingers to lay blame.
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Didn't Naniwa say on LO3 that MLG admins told him he earned Code S spot?
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On December 16 2011 07:29 Biane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 07:25 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 07:19 leungwk01 wrote:
When GOM introduced their new format they did say there would be 2x Code S seed and 2x international up/down seeds.
If only they made if more specific on their code S seed this wouldn't have happened but I feel the reason they changed the format was because koreans were winning all the MLGs but they just didn't inform MLG. (or something screwed up)
There's no chance the 2 Code S seeds are for koreans. It's a bit funny that a lot of people are up in arms about this change as GOM trying to screw over foreigners, when really, the change to Code S seeding was to ensure that *more* foreigners get into Code S, likely because the MLG seeding system seemed to result in Koreans getting into Code S. Because most (but not all) people here are either on one side of the fence or the other. A bit hard for someone to be in the middle ground for this incident. But then again, maybe the argument really is about this change trying to screw Naniwa over.
I think this argument is really just about Naniwa. Because if we believe GOM, Naniwa was going to get a Code S spot until the Nestea game. So, he was punished for the Nestea game, rather than lost out due to rule changes.
If the Naniwa game didn't occur, and Idra + Naniwa were seeded into Code S, and GSL announced "Oh yeah, no more auto-Code S for MLG winners--instead, its top 2 foreigners getting in," no one would be outraged. The thread would be 200 posts of people saying "Awesome, I hope Naniwa gets ro8" or "LOL, can't wait to see idra get cheesed!"
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One thing I think is clear is that gomtv was going to punish Naniwa regardless of how he got into code S. Regardless of if he earned it, it is still their right to decide he does not meet their standards. The fact that this has become part of the code S seeding confusion might just be a really unfortunate mis-communication at the worst possible time.
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So changing the agreement without notifying the buiseness partner, very starnge move. Apparantly no rules broken but it's highly unprofessional.
After being very harsh on Naniwa for unprofessional behaviour, GOM is now looking like big time hypocrites.
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I think people are blowing it out of proportion, it is likely that this was simply miscommunication. It just seems like they are doing this because of Naniwa because of what just happened. Had Naniwa not done this, no one would have noticed the format changes that were announced at the beginning of GSL November. Note that there are two S seeds, two up and down seeds, and at least 2 A seeds. Thats six seeds. Where would these six seeds come from? They never clarified and the contract for the exchange was only for the 2011 season.
If anything, the problem is that GOM was in the wrong for not telling anyone of this change, and simply implying it through their new format. It is rather unprofessional of GOM to not clarify this change, but MLG seems to acknowledge that they were in their rights to do so, so if MLG agrees and Naniwa decides to not even compete next season, I fail to see why we should vilify GOm so much.
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Lol this is so ironic. What they did is exactly what naniwa did... perfectly within their jurisdiction but just unprofessional...
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The funny thing is that the only organization who broke any "rules" is actually MLG, and with this post, they basically just shifted all the blame to GOM.
Funny how these things work.
(I feel bad for MLG actually. They didn't know they were displaying false advertising ... because the only way they could know was if GOM told them -- which GOM didn't. But MLG's technically the one at fault.)
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It's not so much a question of whether or not GOM broke the contract in a legal sense. If MLG says, that GOM were in their right to change the deal, then it should be good enough for everybody.
But I think we can all agree, that the changes where poorly communicated, otherwise there wouldn't be thousands of postings from people disagreeing over the issue. It's just common decency to inform the players involved and your partner-tournament, if your new format requires a change to the seedings-arrangement.
GOM stated clearly, that they did not explicitly revoke Naniwas Code-S-spot, but merely removed him from consideration. So they acted, as if the matter was perfectly simple and no huge deal. Which took the world by surprise, as everyone was under the impression, that he had already secured his seed.
I commend MLG for staying so polite in their statement, they must be fuming right now...
Don't know, if this mess has anything to do with cultural differences, or just with a company acting in a very confusing manner.
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On December 16 2011 07:33 Treemonkeys wrote:
One thing I think is clear is that gomtv was going to punish Naniwa regardless of how he got into code S. Regardless of if he earned it, it is still their right to decide he does not meet their standards. The fact that this has become part of the code S seeding confusion might just be a really unfortunate mis-communication at the worst possible time.
I agree, but the problem is Gom didn't say they were taking his code S spot away, they were saying they were taking his CONSIDERATION for a code S spot away. They said it that way to make it seem less sever, which is does, but the problem is we were all under the assumption Naniwa had earned his code S spot.
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On December 16 2011 07:33 slicknav wrote:
Didn't Naniwa say on LO3 that MLG admins told him he earned Code S spot?
Yes, but GOM never told him he got the Code S spot.
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This is pretty much the same as when they changed the format for Blizzardcup all of a sudden, which caused playes that though they were getting seeded eventually not ge them. Originally it was going to only have the top 10 GSL ranked players and it was played going to be played in a sort of a ladder like format also I think they had a bigger prizepool.
People weren't really outraged at that though.
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On December 16 2011 05:41 Siaubunas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 05:39 Testuser wrote:
IS THERE A RULES WHICH STATES THAT GOM CAN'T CHANGE THE PRIZE?! IF NOT, THEN THEY'RE IN THEIR RIGHTS.
(Me, trying to defend the way people seem to defend naniwa)
Seriously, noone is making sound arguments. Can we just get past this. Please. Let's all be friends. How about argument: GOM is disrepectfull towards their clients?
How about argument: Naniwa is disrepectfull towards the tournament hosts?
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On December 16 2011 07:31 labbe wrote:
So what we can gather from all of this is that GOM chose to punish Naniwa, and then afterwards changing their previous promises to fit his punishments, then lying to the community about it. Classy.
Have you not read anything? They changed the format back in november I believe? They stated back in november or even earlier that the GSL "seed" for providence would be the top 2 players going to blizzcup rather than a code S spot because there would not be another code S in 2011. They did not lie about anything. There was miscommunication where they and all the koreanns knew this and somehow no one else did, but it was not lying and they did not change their promise afterwards. The code S spot everyone thought nani had did not exist, it never did. They were going to give him one of the 2 code S seeds that they were to provide to foreigners OF THEIR CHOOSING, however they did not formally give them out yet. They changed their mind to give it to him based on his unprofessional behavior. That is the same as telling someone you're going to give them a gift, and then after they completely disrespect you deciding not to give them a gift.
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On December 16 2011 07:10 Bluemagic2121 wrote:
They just didn't communicate to MLG about change in Seeding spot, that is all.
and this whatever change Gom happened just about a month after the Providence, so change happened before Blizzard cup.
and what I don't understand from a couple of people out there keep saying Gom did dirty work and what not,
Did they take away code S spot for no reason? you think they just took it away from naniwa for no reason?
THEY DID NOT CHANGE THE RULE BECAUSE OF CHILDISH ACT OF NANIWA but coincidentally the change for 2012 was ALREADY MADE, even thought a lot of you out there sees or feels like the change was made on the next day after Naniwa's act.
And also like MLG said, the power is in Gom's hand, not from MLG. WITH THE NEW RULE MADE BEFORE BLIZZ CUP,
Gom was to GIVE code S spot as A GIFT, but Naniwa with CHILDish ACT BLEW IT AWAY, this. why is this so hard to understand?????????????????????
ABOVE im just saying as in facts,
now below is my opinion.
ALSO in Providence, Naniwa only won 3 Matches, 3 Matches to get into the final. because of some type seeding system which MLG has that I can not understand.
I was actually expecting the same format just like any other MLG, from pool game and on.
GUYS, 3 Matches to get into the final, JUST 3 Matches. and also he only had to win 2 GAMES! whereas leenock had to win 4.
and with Naniwa's history in code A, where he never passed above round 16 or 32, whichever is the lowest, is 0-10 or something.
in my opinion, the rule change Gom, even though it was last minute change and happened before blizz cup, was REALLY GOOD.
becuase Naniwa is no where near, in skill wise, to compete in Code S
Could you provide sources for your "facts" since "the new rule made before blizz cup" (in all caps) wasn't made public until after said cup, therefore one might think it was because what happened in the cup that triggered this response from GOM.
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On December 16 2011 07:35 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 07:33 Treemonkeys wrote:
One thing I think is clear is that gomtv was going to punish Naniwa regardless of how he got into code S. Regardless of if he earned it, it is still their right to decide he does not meet their standards. The fact that this has become part of the code S seeding confusion might just be a really unfortunate mis-communication at the worst possible time. I agree, but the problem is Gom didn't say they were taking his code S spot away, they were saying they were taking his CONSIDERATION for a code S spot away. They said it that way to make it seem less sever, which is does, but the problem is we were all under the assumption Naniwa had earned his code S spot.
They did try to downplay the severity.
Although, they also said Naniwa was on the top of the list for a spot--so they made it clear he was getting a sport before, and he's not getting one now, because of that game.
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Tasteless was just mocking the USA for being a litigious culture that values legality over ethics when this is pretty much the exact same question. Not saying he was wrong, but I could make a strong counterpoint that Korea is not so different.
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On December 16 2011 07:31 labbe wrote:
So what we can gather from all of this is that GOM chose to punish Naniwa, and then afterwards changing their previous promises to fit his punishments, then lying to the community about it. Classy.
Actually that's what we're trying to argue about here atm, about whether they really "lied" to the community is up to anyone interpretation or opinion atm because as as far as it seems, they haven't done so illegally?/ might be possibly within their right to do so? (sorry, i'm not totally following the legal argument side of this thread)
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lost respect for mlg. they make gomtv look like the bad guy for not following the terms of agreement. However, they did not follow their terms by flying/seeding 4 people directly into the championship bracket (there were no pools). If mlg providence doesn't fit the correct tournament structure to uphold both sides of the agreement, why should gomtv seed a player into code s? mlg does not mention this at all.
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On December 16 2011 07:33 slicknav wrote:
Didn't Naniwa say on LO3 that MLG admins told him he earned Code S spot?
Yeah, MLG also had news on their site explicitly stating that he had earned it. MLG was under the impression the Code S spot was his.
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EPT
