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MLG statement on Providence Code S spot - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
1158 CommentsPost a Reply
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leungwk01
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1260 Posts
December 15 2011 22:19 GMT
#401
When GOM introduced their new format they did say there would be 2x Code S seed and 2x international up/down seeds.

If only they made if more specific on their code S seed this wouldn't have happened but I feel the reason they changed the format was because koreans were winning all the MLGs but they just didn't inform MLG. (or something screwed up)

There's no chance the 2 Code S seeds are for koreans.
JoeSchmoe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2058 Posts
December 15 2011 22:19 GMT
#402
On December 16 2011 07:11 redviper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:05 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:56 Nexic wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:51 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:47 babylon wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:44 m0ck wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:39 Snowball_ wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:33 ACrow wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:20 Treemonkeys wrote:
On December 16 2011 06:12 Longshank wrote:
[quote]
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291

edit: "At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.

Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players.

If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player."


....and they followed through with this. By MLG providence there was no 2011 code S left and they had made it public that things were changed in 2012. They weren't explictly clear about what would happen with the new format, and neither was MLG, and both sides could have taken the initiative to sort this out before it came to all this. I hold MLG more accountable because it was being offered as a prize to *their* tournament and they were able to profit from it.

I'm sorry but MLG is just as much to blame in this.


Read a little more closely - the original states all 2011 MLGs will award a code S spot. Providence was in 2011 and thus should award a code S (no mention the code S spot has to be in 2011 as well) spot.


As mentioned read more closely: "Pro Circuit". Providence wasn't one of them. it was rather a championchip.

Bullshittu.

http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/

The above is the site for the Pro Cirvcit. Go to the menu-point "Competitions". Do you see Providence? What is your basis for excluding Providence from the Pro Circuit? The organizers of the Pro Circuit themselves counted Providence as gifting a code S spot.

This entire argument boggles my mind. People need to reread the OP. It doesn't matter if Providence was included in the Pro Circuit or not -- the understanding was as follows:

The original agreement between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season.


yet using the same agreement that MLG cited, they never seeded 4 korean players directly into championship pools. what's
your explanation for that? or are we to assume that GSL is supposed to keep up their end of the bargain but MLG does not?
You don't know what you're talking about. MLG did uphold their part of the agreement. In providence there was obviously no pool play, so instead MLG paid for 4 previous MLG champions/1 runner-up (MMA, MVP, Bomber, and MC) to come to Providence. GSL did not do anything for their half of the LXP for Providence.


actually you don't know what you're talking about. lol convenient, no pool play so yeah we don't have to seed them even though that's a CONDITION in the agreement. also MLG didn't pay for MVP. Quantic did as a result of their partnership with IM.


Thats a really interesting point. If the 4 GSL players weren't seeded into MLG didn't MLG first break their end of the bargain? Why should providence winner (or in Nani's case 2nd place) get a seed to Code S if the quid pro quo portion wasn't upheld?


unfortunately the majority of the foreign community doesn't care about logic at this point. it's GOM's fault regardless of what happens because they punished a foreigner.
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
December 15 2011 22:21 GMT
#403
On December 16 2011 07:13 seabass wrote:
It's useless to talk about if a Korean or almost anyone else had gotten the spot if they would have been given Code S. The answer is yes, Nani did get a spot HOWEVER due to it no longer being solid he fucked it up, something that plenty people have said is "nani being nani".


Would a korean have gotten the code s seed naniwa would have gotten if they got 2nd place at providence? we can't say yes for certain, cause the trend it seems atm is to give that seed (which is no longer the standard LXP seed, but this new sponsor seed) to foreigners (after all, giving it to koreans wont bring in much of the foreign audience)
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
December 15 2011 22:21 GMT
#404
What GOM did was not illegal at all. MLG have already admitted that it was within their rights to change the terms. What it was:
An absolutely unprofessional dick move.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
December 15 2011 22:21 GMT
#405
On December 16 2011 07:16 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:10 Shikyo wrote:
This is illegal isnt this? If I was MLG I'd probably sue GOM. This can't be legal. Otherwise I could have a tournament with 50$ entry fees and an advertized 1 million prize pool and then change it to a 500 dollar prize pool after 1000 people pay their entry fee, right? If I just have a "the prize pool isn't final and is subject to change" in the contract?


Well, MLG said that GOM had a right to do it, so it isn't illegal. On the other hand, if some of the players or affiliated teams wanted to sue MLG for false advertising (Code S seeding in Top 3, many articles with "Naniwa rewarded Code S on MLG site...), they would probably succeed... Anyway, it's not MLGs fault and I don't think there's someone in the community that would sue them, so yeah...

Huh? MLG could say that it's legal for MLG to change the prize pool from 50k dollars to 1 dollars, I don't care what MLG says in the slightest and don't think their opinion has any value in this matter. What matters is that they decided to change a significant, heavily advertized portion of the prize pool of the tournament after the tournament was played and concluded. I don't know of any country where this is legal. Not even if MLG says it's legal.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Zuxo
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden395 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 22:22:51
December 15 2011 22:21 GMT
#406
Aaaaa the hypocrisy, how lovely..
Will probably stop supporting GOM now.
Also I feel really bad for Naniwa because of this =(.
I'm a mother******* lyrical wordsmith, mother******* genius
Ammanas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Slovakia2166 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 22:26:54
December 15 2011 22:24 GMT
#407
On December 16 2011 07:21 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:16 Ammanas wrote:
On December 16 2011 07:10 Shikyo wrote:
This is illegal isnt this? If I was MLG I'd probably sue GOM. This can't be legal. Otherwise I could have a tournament with 50$ entry fees and an advertized 1 million prize pool and then change it to a 500 dollar prize pool after 1000 people pay their entry fee, right? If I just have a "the prize pool isn't final and is subject to change" in the contract?


Well, MLG said that GOM had a right to do it, so it isn't illegal. On the other hand, if some of the players or affiliated teams wanted to sue MLG for false advertising (Code S seeding in Top 3, many articles with "Naniwa rewarded Code S on MLG site...), they would probably succeed... Anyway, it's not MLGs fault and I don't think there's someone in the community that would sue them, so yeah...

Huh? MLG could say that it's legal for MLG to change the prize pool from 50k dollars to 1 dollars, I don't care what MLG says in the slightest and don't think their opinion has any value in this matter. What matters is that they decided to change a significant, heavily advertized portion of the prize pool of the tournament after the tournament was played and concluded. I don't know of any country where this is legal. Not even if MLG says it's legal.


What I am saying is, MLG is the one who did "false advertising," not GOM. MLG didn't know that there won't be any Code S seed for Providence, so they were advertising it. But it was them, not GOM. So basically, GOM did nothing wrong, which was acknowledged by MLG in the statement on the first page.

EDIT: It seems like I am defending them, which I am not - I already posted that what GOM did was basically the same as what Naniwa did, only on much larger scale....
JangBi forever <3 || Classic! herO! Rain! Zest! | Rogue! Hydra! Solar! | Fantasy! Cure! Reality! Sorry! Journey!
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
December 15 2011 22:25 GMT
#408
I'm surprised MLG is getting almost no criticism for essentially passing the buck and saying "don't look at us".

But for all the budding contract lawyers out there, don't forget a simple fact of life. This decision does not affect MLG and their bottom line, therefore MLG does not care.
Trsjnica
Profile Joined April 2011
United States477 Posts
December 15 2011 22:25 GMT
#409
On December 16 2011 07:19 leungwk01 wrote:
When GOM introduced their new format they did say there would be 2x Code S seed and 2x international up/down seeds.

If only they made if more specific on their code S seed this wouldn't have happened but I feel the reason they changed the format was because koreans were winning all the MLGs but they just didn't inform MLG. (or something screwed up)

There's no chance the 2 Code S seeds are for koreans.

It's a bit funny that a lot of people are up in arms about this change as GOM trying to screw over foreigners, when really, the change to Code S seeding was to ensure that *more* foreigners get into Code S, likely because the MLG seeding system seemed to result in Koreans getting into Code S.
Bluemagic2121
Profile Joined December 2011
United States6 Posts
December 15 2011 22:25 GMT
#410
On December 16 2011 07:19 FabledIntegral wrote:
They changed it BEFORE the Blizzard cup, but never made anyone aware of it? Bullshit.

If the invite thing was true, I think it would be OK to revoke the Naniwa invite, but as it stands, it seems like a load of bullshit to me.



I do get what you are saying, and understand that it is suspicious.


but did gom do this to ruin naniwa for no reason?


did gom do this to piss of naniwa fans?


did gom this is to no reason?



who know they changed right after naniwa match or well before, people will never know.

but the penalty was done WITH PROPER reason.
one
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
December 15 2011 22:26 GMT
#411
On December 16 2011 07:24 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:21 Shikyo wrote:
On December 16 2011 07:16 Ammanas wrote:
On December 16 2011 07:10 Shikyo wrote:
This is illegal isnt this? If I was MLG I'd probably sue GOM. This can't be legal. Otherwise I could have a tournament with 50$ entry fees and an advertized 1 million prize pool and then change it to a 500 dollar prize pool after 1000 people pay their entry fee, right? If I just have a "the prize pool isn't final and is subject to change" in the contract?


Well, MLG said that GOM had a right to do it, so it isn't illegal. On the other hand, if some of the players or affiliated teams wanted to sue MLG for false advertising (Code S seeding in Top 3, many articles with "Naniwa rewarded Code S on MLG site...), they would probably succeed... Anyway, it's not MLGs fault and I don't think there's someone in the community that would sue them, so yeah...

Huh? MLG could say that it's legal for MLG to change the prize pool from 50k dollars to 1 dollars, I don't care what MLG says in the slightest and don't think their opinion has any value in this matter. What matters is that they decided to change a significant, heavily advertized portion of the prize pool of the tournament after the tournament was played and concluded. I don't know of any country where this is legal. Not even if MLG says it's legal.


What I am saying is, MLG is the one who did "false advertising," not GOM. MLG didn't know that there won't be any Code S seed for Providence, so they were advertising it. But it was them, not GOM. So basically, GOM did nothing wrong, which was acknowledged by MLG in the statement on the first page.

No, GOM changed those rules after the MLG, didn't you read?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
December 15 2011 22:26 GMT
#412
On December 16 2011 07:21 Zuxo wrote:
Aaaaa the hypocrisy, how lovely..
Will probably stop supporting GOM now.
Also I feel really bad for Naniwa because of this =(.


Actually I don't.

Feeling bad for Naniwa only makes it sound like he's totally innocence in all of this, which he isn't.

Yeah, he got the worst possible end of things from GOM whose decision atm isn't looking good for them for their reputation but guess who started it (and no, lets not get into arguments about whether its initially GOM or Naniwa's fault in the first place, cause such situations are inevitable maybe once/twice a year in such formats)
seabass
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada15 Posts
December 15 2011 22:28 GMT
#413
On December 16 2011 07:21 Biane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:13 seabass wrote:
It's useless to talk about if a Korean or almost anyone else had gotten the spot if they would have been given Code S. The answer is yes, Nani did get a spot HOWEVER due to it no longer being solid he fucked it up, something that plenty people have said is "nani being nani".


Would a korean have gotten the code s seed naniwa would have gotten if they got 2nd place at providence? we can't say yes for certain, cause the trend it seems atm is to give that seed (which is no longer the standard LXP seed, but this new sponsor seed) to foreigners (after all, giving it to koreans wont bring in much of the foreign audience)


Most of the players who had the potential to get that high would likely already have a Code S seed, looking at the results you'd be giving it to Haypro as the next person who wasn't already in Code S, and as much as I love the banjo you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks he can compete at a Code S level. Not to mention youd be going all the way to 7th place, and only then because Idra forfeit at that point.
Trsjnica
Profile Joined April 2011
United States477 Posts
December 15 2011 22:28 GMT
#414
On December 16 2011 07:28 seabass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:21 Biane wrote:
On December 16 2011 07:13 seabass wrote:
It's useless to talk about if a Korean or almost anyone else had gotten the spot if they would have been given Code S. The answer is yes, Nani did get a spot HOWEVER due to it no longer being solid he fucked it up, something that plenty people have said is "nani being nani".


Would a korean have gotten the code s seed naniwa would have gotten if they got 2nd place at providence? we can't say yes for certain, cause the trend it seems atm is to give that seed (which is no longer the standard LXP seed, but this new sponsor seed) to foreigners (after all, giving it to koreans wont bring in much of the foreign audience)


Most of the players who had the potential to get that high would likely already have a Code S seed, looking at the results you'd be giving it to Haypro as the next person who wasn't already in Code S, and as much as I love the banjo you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks he can compete at a Code S level. Not to mention youd be going all the way to 7th place, and only then because Idra forfeit at that point.

Haypro couldn't have won it though, as it was always limited to Top 3.
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
December 15 2011 22:29 GMT
#415
On December 16 2011 07:25 Trsjnica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:19 leungwk01 wrote:
When GOM introduced their new format they did say there would be 2x Code S seed and 2x international up/down seeds.

If only they made if more specific on their code S seed this wouldn't have happened but I feel the reason they changed the format was because koreans were winning all the MLGs but they just didn't inform MLG. (or something screwed up)

There's no chance the 2 Code S seeds are for koreans.

It's a bit funny that a lot of people are up in arms about this change as GOM trying to screw over foreigners, when really, the change to Code S seeding was to ensure that *more* foreigners get into Code S, likely because the MLG seeding system seemed to result in Koreans getting into Code S.


Because most (but not all) people here are either on one side of the fence or the other. A bit hard for someone to be in the middle ground for this incident. But then again, maybe the argument really is about this change trying to screw Naniwa over.
seabass
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada15 Posts
December 15 2011 22:31 GMT
#416
On December 16 2011 07:28 Trsjnica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:28 seabass wrote:
On December 16 2011 07:21 Biane wrote:
On December 16 2011 07:13 seabass wrote:
It's useless to talk about if a Korean or almost anyone else had gotten the spot if they would have been given Code S. The answer is yes, Nani did get a spot HOWEVER due to it no longer being solid he fucked it up, something that plenty people have said is "nani being nani".


Would a korean have gotten the code s seed naniwa would have gotten if they got 2nd place at providence? we can't say yes for certain, cause the trend it seems atm is to give that seed (which is no longer the standard LXP seed, but this new sponsor seed) to foreigners (after all, giving it to koreans wont bring in much of the foreign audience)


Most of the players who had the potential to get that high would likely already have a Code S seed, looking at the results you'd be giving it to Haypro as the next person who wasn't already in Code S, and as much as I love the banjo you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks he can compete at a Code S level. Not to mention youd be going all the way to 7th place, and only then because Idra forfeit at that point.

Haypro couldn't have won it though, as it was always limited to Top 3.


I realize this, I'm just saying that assuming a Code A/unplaced player finishing 2nd and getting the seed has happened before, and in this tournament if you aren't giving a seed to nani the point is moot.
WeavingHarp9
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden23 Posts
December 15 2011 22:31 GMT
#417
Even if it wud be illegal no one can do shit about it ~~ and that and this is a big reason esports is a joke and will continue to be so for a long time ~~
6pool much!?
labbe
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
December 15 2011 22:31 GMT
#418
So what we can gather from all of this is that GOM chose to punish Naniwa, and then afterwards changing their previous promises to fit his punishments, then lying to the community about it. Classy.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
December 15 2011 22:32 GMT
#419
On December 16 2011 07:26 Biane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:21 Zuxo wrote:
Aaaaa the hypocrisy, how lovely..
Will probably stop supporting GOM now.
Also I feel really bad for Naniwa because of this =(.


Actually I don't.

Feeling bad for Naniwa only makes it sound like he's totally innocence in all of this, which he isn't.

Yeah, he got the worst possible end of things from GOM whose decision atm isn't looking good for them for their reputation but guess who started it (and no, lets not get into arguments about whether its initially GOM or Naniwa's fault in the first place, cause such situations are inevitable maybe once/twice a year in such formats)


It's Naniwa's fault anyway: he never asked to be allowed to forfeit his game. If he's sitting on the chair feeling so dejected he wants to punch a baby, he should have gone to one of the GOM employees and asked if he could forfeit on those grounds.

He didn't. If he had I'd be far more sympathetic, because then they would have forced him to play despite being fully aware he was in no mood to do so and had no desire to do so.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
December 15 2011 22:33 GMT
#420
On December 16 2011 07:28 seabass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 07:21 Biane wrote:
On December 16 2011 07:13 seabass wrote:
It's useless to talk about if a Korean or almost anyone else had gotten the spot if they would have been given Code S. The answer is yes, Nani did get a spot HOWEVER due to it no longer being solid he fucked it up, something that plenty people have said is "nani being nani".


Would a korean have gotten the code s seed naniwa would have gotten if they got 2nd place at providence? we can't say yes for certain, cause the trend it seems atm is to give that seed (which is no longer the standard LXP seed, but this new sponsor seed) to foreigners (after all, giving it to koreans wont bring in much of the foreign audience)


Most of the players who had the potential to get that high would likely already have a Code S seed, looking at the results you'd be giving it to Haypro as the next person who wasn't already in Code S, and as much as I love the banjo you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks he can compete at a Code S level. Not to mention youd be going all the way to 7th place, and only then because Idra forfeit at that point.


So in avoiding that, they gave the seed to Sen, whom we can agree can at least compete at the code S level, if not, the top end of the creme of Code A. Not that bad of a decision, but still leaves up in the clouds if say someone like violet/puma/boxer were in that top 8.
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