EPTGOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 84
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
On December 15 2011 17:58 kcbgoku wrote: What I'm saying is: You don't compare World Cup's format with this. Football match =/= sc2 match, basketball match =/= sc2 match etc. You play football/basketball match you are limited by time. You play tennis/table tennis/volleyball match, you are limited by points. You get more points/reach the limit first - you win and that is your 1 point in group stage. You treat a single game of sc2 like a whole match in e.g. football where you have 2 halfs and unlimited goals to score. That's just not true. I dont see how the difference is supposed to factor into the argument. Werent you saying the format is stupid because it creates 'meaningless' games? Exact same situation as Naniwa happens in world cup as well. But none of those games are meaningless. | ||
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Master_Blaster
United Kingdom269 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:04 xBillehx wrote: I agree that if a player wants to forfeit it's his own prerogative, but unfortunately Naniwa never went to GOM to ask if he had to play the game and forfiet properly. He joined the game, let them set everything up and purposely threw it live on air. He already realizes it was a stupid thing to do so I don't get why others try to argue anything different. How do you know that for a fact? Maybe he did ask them and they said that he needs to go in the booth and try, no forfeit. And so he did. | ||
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wunsun
Canada622 Posts
On December 15 2011 17:58 kcbgoku wrote: What I'm saying is: You don't compare World Cup's format with this. Football match =/= sc2 match, basketball match =/= sc2 match etc. You play football/basketball match you are limited by time. You play tennis/table tennis/volleyball match, you are limited by points. You get more points/reach the limit first - you win and that is your 1 point in group stage. You treat a single game of sc2 like a whole match in e.g. football where you have 2 halfs and unlimited goals to score. That's just not true. Not exactly sure what the point you are trying to make is. I am not saying they are the same, but those sports give an overall idea of how pro gamers should take responsibility to their fans, sponsors and teams and play hard even when it does not matter. | ||
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droxe
Germany95 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:06 Master_Blaster wrote: How do you know that for a fact? Maybe he did ask them and they said that he needs to go in the booth and try, no forfeit. And so he did. Actually Naniwa himself said it on Live on Three, the Thread is in Sc2 General and theres a transcipt as well i think. Copied the transcript: + Show Spoiler + Thanks for the heads up, listening right now. "LR" - He thought he had a seed for Code S - He had no idea why it was such a big deal - After all this he realised that people wanted to see Nani vs Nestea rematch. - Didn't realise what the koreans thought about it. - I guess I will just have to accept what happened and try to requalify. Do you feel like GOMs new statement is strange? - GOM never said that they would give me a Code S seed, all other sourced did though. Neither MLG or GSL is going back on their word I'm very confused. - SirScoots: Players are on both sides of this fence (Idra/Huk examples), the format is stupid. I wish they would have let you forfeit. Firm believer that every match should mean something. Naniwa was the guinea-pig, make every match mean something if it's going to be played. As the team guy he wants players to give it their all. "It's just not me and nestea anymore, it's his fans, it's my fans". (Note that because of this he got players into Code S, ofcourse he won't completely side with Naniwa). (He cleared this up, Idra was getting in anyways) Attacks GOM for vague rules. This would not have happened if there was a clear rule that matches should not be thrown. Takes up the notion that Naniwa is the bad guy, this probably would not have happened the same way with for example TLO. - Naniwa did not ask to not play that match. - Slasher, MLG (HOLY SHIT HE SHAVED, LOOKS 20 YEARS YOUNGER): I don't know shit. I don't represent anything. - Wheat: Even if it is miscommunication, Naniwa is the victim. - "When I realised how koreans see it I understand I fucked up. Their definition of progamer is different, it's not making a living of it, it's pride and honour and such". - Nani (Regarding StarTale house): The Startale guys were never any problems. It was his first place in korea and it's were he feels at home. He got no problems with the Startale guys. - TL:DR from Wheat: Now that Naniwa see it in the Korean perspective he shouldn't have done that. Do you feel that you're still getting shit even though you've apologised? - Nani I hope they can realise I did not think the same way as them. (Something about cultural difference) I hope that eventually they'll give me another shot. - Nani: I missed the bigger picture. - Slasher: He feels for Naniwa, he enjoys a proper fake match then a hidden one. - Slasher hyping up the match and still doesn't find it that bad. - Scoots: None of the matches are meaningless for the playing viewers. You did not "entertain". - Slasher: It's frikking meaningless.. - MLG wouldn't have done anything, different culture. - Wheat: Going forward how important is this thing going forward for "BM" players - Nani: Not so much about the korean culture, I didn't think of anything then myself in that moment. An advice would always to think of the bigger picture. - Scoots: Players need to think of it as a job, paid to play, paid to preform. Organizers should also look at themselves and avoid this situation. Naniwa has gotten a lot of shit lately, noone needs this amount in their life. Naniwa has sent a message with his actions. - Wheat asks about Quantics reaction: - Nani: Did not expect them to stand with him, he thought he was done. He would have quit if Quantic dumped him. They have been really supportive and will for sure repay them. - Wheat: What do you value more walking away from this situation, what have you learned? - Nani: Being a progamer is very fragile, I will never go 50%, I will always go 100% from here on. - Scoots: You're all young people, you will grow stronger. Huk learned from his NASL thing. People need to give you slack, you don't have the paid staff to tell you how to act. People will keep stepping into shit, the scene is young. Let's move on. - Wheat : Is the Naniwa going out of this a new Naniwa - Nani: It's not like I'm trying to kill Esports, I didn't know what I was doing. Changed Naniwa? I don't know, I've learned. - Scoots hoping for GOM to change too. - Slasher hyping the first 3 games being really close, How close are you to the top? - Nani: Nani saying he was kinda jetlagged, bad excuse, doesn't like bo1. - Slasher: Do you think bo1 hurts you? - Nani: It's ok in a group stage, but considering the status of the tournament they should have gone with bo3. >>>Final questions<<< - Wheat: Thinks nani has gained some fans, people are liking the reflection. How do you feel about your fans, what kind of emotional attachment do you have with them. Any words? Plans to interact more - Nani: I have gotten a lot of shit for a lot of things. I thought it would be easier if I didn't think about it. It really warms my heart when I read nice comments on TL. I really want to make my country proud. I hope they will keep with me during all this. - Scoots: Still has the support from the Swedish fans? - Nani: Definitely. - Scoots: Plans for the holiday? - Nani: I don't have time to spare, no holidays. I will practise as hard as I can, I feel like I'm living on borrowed time. - Slasher: Wow, don't feel that way, you're one of the 2 foreigners there.. Good luck in Code A! Thanks - Thanks to my fans and especially my team, did not expect them to keep with me. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:06 Master_Blaster wrote: How do you know that for a fact? Maybe he did ask them and they said that he needs to go in the booth and try, no forfeit. And so he did. He said so on Lo3 today.  | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
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Master_Blaster
United Kingdom269 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:07 wunsun wrote: Not exactly sure what the point you are trying to make is. I am not saying they are the same, but those sports give an overall idea of how pro gamers should take responsibility to their fans, sponsors and teams and play hard even when it does not matter. He is saying that football players can't end the game earlier to just walk away from the forfeited match, they HAVE TO stay on the field for 90 minutes. So maybe they play a dumb game for 90 minutes. But in StarCraft you can end it quickly to salvage wasted time and effort. Thanks for the transcript of LO3. Missed it and loved it. | ||
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Lixo
202 Posts
I'm glad you did, and I'm hoping that he will take that action as a warning and rethink his mindset while looking into the future tournaments he'll participate in, GSL, or any other. Thank you for the awesome starcraft 2 action that you provide to all starcraft 2 fans around the world. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:09 Master_Blaster wrote: He is saying that football players can't end the game earlier to just walk away from the forfeited match, they HAVE TO stay on the field for 90 minutes. So maybe they play a dumb game for 90 minutes. But in StarCraft you can end it quickly to salvage wasted time and effort. wtf of course you can walk away as a football player - do you think that the officials will force you to stay at gunpoint lol? | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:04 xBillehx wrote: I think the main question is if such an administrative mistake (not resigning properly) requires the punishment it got. An unofficial warning with no consequence would have been enough. Nestea wasn't even offended after the game, he smiled on camera, like he got the joke. (it was partially a troll move, as Naniwa is good at those)I agree that if a player wants to forfeit it's his own prerogative, but unfortunately Naniwa never went to GOM to ask if he had to play the game and forfiet properly. He joined the game, let them set everything up and purposely threw it live on air. He already realizes it was a stupid thing to do so I don't get why others try to argue anything different. In both this and Coca's accident, it seemed that some administration guys have lost their sense of humor. | ||
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LaChrymator
Canada17 Posts
On December 15 2011 17:30 rormc wrote: We, the people from the west, are used to living in freedom. I guess in Korea is an other culture where you have to obey and work hard for the people above you. Yes, it is a clash of cultures. We, the people from the west do live in freedom, until we enter into agreements. And is it not the case that people from the west work hard for the people who employ them as well? The sole consideration GOM received from Naniwa is the viewer-ship from his fans. If you enjoyed his probe rush then write to GOM saying you want more games like that and the Code S should be reinstated! | ||
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wunsun
Canada622 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:15 sleepingdog wrote: wtf of course you can walk away as a football player - do you think that the officials will force you to stay at gunpoint lol? Not sure about the four major league sports, as I am just a spectator. However, I play badminton and in Provincials, the only person stopping you from forfeiting is yourself. You can always do it, but you want to win and any chance, you will try to. | ||
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kcbgoku
Poland156 Posts
Govou you said that World Cup uses "the same" BO1 group stage > tournament format that sc2 - that's false and that's what I wrote here: What I'm saying is: You don't compare World Cup's format with this. Football match =/= sc2 match, basketball match =/= sc2 match etc. You play football/basketball match you are limited by time. You play tennis/table tennis/volleyball match, you are limited by points. You get more points/reach the limit first - you win and that is your 1 point in group stage. You treat a single game of sc2 like a whole match in e.g. football where you have 2 halfs and unlimited goals to score. That's just not true. And that's simply because 1 football match is not 1 sc2 match. It's close to volleyball where you play BO5 but 25 points in volleyball = 1 point in sc2 = 1 won set in both. | ||
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jarod
Romania766 Posts
On December 15 2011 16:31 xBillehx wrote: Why do people who bring up the league exchange thing always quote one side and completely ignore that the MLG side wasn't exactly fulfilled itself? MVP had to fight his way through the open bracket guys, this actually happened. Didn't the league exchange rules say Koreans would be seeded? this is wrong! MVP was seeded but first he reject his seed. After parting with Quantic he and Neastea decided to go to MLG. But he already throw his seed, so basically that is why he played in the open bracket. For ex: MMA still had hes seed. | ||
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Clicker
United States1012 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:06 Master_Blaster wrote: How do you know that for a fact? Maybe he did ask them and they said that he needs to go in the booth and try, no forfeit. And so he did. If Naniwa had asked for a forfeit and then was told he couldn't, it would've been mentioned by either GOM or Naniwa. | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:19 kcbgoku wrote: OK people. Stop this football format/rules = sc2 format/rules bullshit. And by football I mean most of sports. Govou you said that World Cup uses "the same" BO1 group stage > tournament format that sc2 - that's false and that's what I wrote here: And that's simply because 1 football match is not 1 sc2 match. It's close to volleyball where you play BO5 but 25 points in volleyball = 1 point in sc2 = 1 won set in both. Also Football and leagues or cups there have higly developed and strict rules which everyone follows from FIFA world cup wikipedia The current final tournament features 32 national teams competing over a month in the host nation(s). There are two stages: the group stage followed by the knockout stage.[32] match is a match. you said format creates a meaningless situation where both teams face each other with 0-3 record. whatever, I'm busy watching GSL. | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote: We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. Since we have not explained these changes to the seeds in detail yet, this misunderstanding seems to have arisen. For heavens' sake, please explain better in advance next time. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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